Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

originally posted by: beansidhe
(I have no other symptoms of psychosis, no one's pulled me aside and said 'jeezo, we need to talk. Are you ok, you maniac??' ).

Have you told them about the voices that you are hearing? The visible signs of mild psychosis can be put down to general "quirks" and would not arose suspicion until you mention that you are also hearing voices...but you know this.

originally posted by: beansidhe
I'm feeling a bit creeped out but I don't really know why. Maybe it's that 'real name' thing again, I don't know.
Anyway, all advice would be welcome and hope you're all having a good evening/morning (whatever you're having

).

Paranoia...hyper-sensitivity to stimuli...all possible symptoms of a psychotic episode, but a seemingly mild one. What advice would you give to someone with your symptoms?

It is okay to be delusional, I often find it preferable, however there is a very fine line and you often don't know when you've crossed it, but that's usually the only time when others can "see it" because it gets so big that you can't help but react openly, it becomes painful, almost, not to. However, if you are experiencing things that others are not, then that is a sure sign, for better or worse, that you are approaching that line and I am sure that you have experience of people who cannot get back across without the aid of very powerful medications. It takes a degree of robustness, and considerable priming, to move back and forth under your own steam. If you're otherwise healthy, I wouldn't worry too much, we all have minor breaks from the consensus from time to time, and it is no less "woo woo" because it is self-generated, you are far more than the sum of your parts, it's a self of yourself that you don't understand the whys and wherefores of, there is much "woo" there to consider but the voice is all you. Take a step back, mong out as per KPB's suggestion and stare into space, see what bubbles up to the surface.

Be well.

a reply to: Anaana

I'm sorry, but beansidhe is not having a psychotic episode!

Hearing a voice externally saying your name is not the same thing as hearing a voice inside your head telling you to "burn things".

We are all here involved in a discussion about our weird experiences, not to diagnose each other with mental illness.

I have also recently heard a couple of things 'externally', with no visible source.
Delusional and paranoid? No.
There are as-yet unexplained phenomena that cannot just be labelled as 'mental illness'.

hopefaithprayer.com...

"Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:47

Perhaps it's a woo-woo thing, and the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of woo-woo...?
jacy

originally posted by: jacygirl
I'm sorry, but beansidhe is not having a psychotic episode!

And, you know this how?

originally posted by: jacygirl
Hearing a voice externally saying your name is not the same thing as hearing a voice inside your head telling you to "burn things".

How is it not the same? Because psychotics only hear voices telling them to do "bad" things? How do psychotics differentiate between what they hear as being inside or outside?

originally posted by: jacygirl
We are all here involved in a discussion about our weird experiences, not to diagnose each other with mental illness.

I haven't diagnosed anyone as "mentally ill". It is you that appears to think that psychosis = "mental illness", not I. All I did was suggest that B try on one of her other hats and then take a look at herself through those eyes. She invited advice, I felt compelled to give my advice that she utilise her whole self in considering the voice, and to think about the advice she would give to someone presenting similar symptoms.

originally posted by: jacygirl
I have also recently heard a couple of things 'externally', with no visible source.
Delusional and paranoid? No.

And you know this how?

originally posted by: jacygirl
There are as-yet unexplained phenomena that cannot just be labelled as 'mental illness'.

You're the only one bandying around "mental illness". There are many, many, many reasons for a psychotic episode, internal and external. Psychosis may be a dirty word with all sorts of negative connotations, but I don't feel that way about it in the slightest. To me it is a means by which I can communicate a range of experiences in a framework that people, particularly health and mental care professionals, can understand, and still demonstrate my total legal sanity. Very important that point, and as one working mother to another, I think it imperative that B understands the territory that she is potentially in, or wandering into.

originally posted by: jacygirl
hopefaithprayer.com...

"Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:47

Yes, there are all sorts of validatory beliefs that will offer you explanations for whatever it is that you are experiencing. Psychosis is quite the contagion.

originally posted by: jacygirl
Perhaps it's a woo-woo thing, and the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of woo-woo...?

How very special of you to presume what I do and do not hear.

a reply to: beansidhe

In 1997 I was driving in my car on a twisty forrest road. A most impressive and loud female voice suddenly said to me, "slow down or you will die!".

So I slowed from 75 to 45 and out jumped from the woods, just on the other side a huge, magnificent antlered buck, who would have accordianed my little Ford Festiva.

That's it for me. Explain it however you like.

I'm not sure a sample size of one or two or whatever low number means much at this juncture. Certainly no reason to excite yourself into a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I wouldn't want you to "conversion disorder" yourself.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Twice in my life I have heard someone's thoughts and answered them aloud, with a third person present who didn't hear what I did...and the person (I heard) remarking immediately that they had 'just been thinking that' (but didn't SAY it).

What 'validatory belief' does anyone have for that one?

Anaana...My apologies. I get extremely defensive when people talk about their experiences and someone who doesn't have 'weirdness' immediately claims it's psychosis (a serious mental 'disorder' not 'illness', sorry again).

jacy

a reply to: Baddogma



It does help, thank you very much. If you did have an answer you would be very rich and very famous by now. If there were such a thing as ghosts, it would be sad to think of them as confused about us as we are of them.

a reply to: johnb

I was pleased to see an extra big bee the other day, hopefully they'll thrive this summer and get themselves back on track.
Maybe 'it's' on a similar forum as we speak, saying 'OMG, I think a human heard me!!'

a reply to: Anaana

Aaw, thanks. I'll be well, I'm pretty sure I'm ok.
The thing is, I wouldn't qualify for a brief psychotic episode under DSM V criteria, since there haven't been consistent symptoms for a month, no disordered thoughts or speech, no command hallucinations etc.
I appreciate what you're saying though, and there is a fine line indeed. It's easy to leap to supernatural explanantions when maybe it's more important to focus on your inner world, start eliminating stress and learn to mong KPB-style.

What advice would I give to someone with my symptoms? The worrying thing is, my first thought (although maybe not spoken out loud) would be 'has someone died recently?'

I'd want to know their other symptoms, general health, if they could follow a linear train of thought, erratic behaviour etc and if I ask myself those things, then I'd have to say I'm actually ok.
Since that's two of you now suggesting some space-staring, I'll give it a go.

a reply to: beansidhe

The whole mental illness vs woo thing is a 'uge can o' worms... that I find fascinating, of course.

Frankly, I know I'm mildly (or quite) batty, but my logic and sense apparatus seem fine, and I had that odd "possession" episode at that suicide house... but am wary of turning back the scientific clock by 400+ years.

I had run into a weird case at a halfway house for mentally ill folks (I was working, not staying there, btw) where it sure as heck seemed like a patient was under the influence of invisible intelligentsia (heh) who occasionally threw objects about, slammed doors and would tell her personal, embarrassing things about the staff that very cleverly destabilized the social atmosphere...

and then there was a weird, light-sucking effect around her and the staff seriously wondered if a priest/shaman would help her, once one brazen soul broached the subject and all our suspicions and experiences spilled out.. .

tragically, the director liked his cushy job, and decided against asking his bosses for an exorcism, heh, while admitting to the staff that he, too, thought something paranormal was going on and that a small number of past patients had seemed 'externally troubled,' too... so the patient is likely still medicated, suffering and wanting to see her children again.

And that's why I walk that (ofttimes dangerously ignorant) line of wondering if some mental illness is caused by exterior beings... I have a strong hunch that it exists and is more prevalent than thought, but still think religious mania and quackery would foul up more than an occasional exorcism might cure.

Or maybe we need a big, huge one for the whole human race... sigh.

a reply to: Baddogma

Oh you will love this: read! the whole country of Mexico had a nation wide exorcism last year!
The question is who is the troubled soul?
The attacher or the attachee?

a reply to: Baddogma

I know, I find it fascinating too. I knew of a woman in Glasgow who began to hear dead people. As friends lost relatives, she would 'hear' them within a few days, giving instructions to the friends or passing on messages. She did so, and her friends were amazed at what they were hearing since the messages etc were so accurate or so private that she couldn't have guessed.
She went to her GP, who referred her to psychiatry since she was, in essence, hearing voices. She was assessed, but never diagnosed with anything, advised to stop drinking (she didn't drink), told to rest more, avoid stress etc. But the 'messages' continued periodically and she was eventually discharged from psychiatry since she didn't appear to be struggling with a mental health disorder.
She reconciled herself with the belief that she was just incredibly sensitive to other people's needs, and was able to somehow 'know' what they needed to hear, even though she herself consciously didn't know what they wanted. Somehow it was easier to deal with (for her) believing it was more like ESP than a supernatural phenomenon. Which begs the question - is there any difference?

a reply to: beansidhe

more like ESP than a supernatural phenomenon. Which begs the question - is there any difference?

This begging, pleading question and line of thought pops up frequently due to us using consciousness/brains to investigate consciousness/brains... like trying to study microscopes by using the sample microscope being studied... or something like that, but I bet you get my clumsy example.

Those stories about coherent messages passed to the occasional loved ones by the dead are what makes me second guess our resident Shaman's observations that humans don't actually have souls, or rather are a conglomerate merely simulating a single consciousness... and why I keep harping on it, trying to glean the nuance of his observations... and thus why I suspect he's wrong in some sense... unless I really have it askew, which is quite possible, but that goes both ways.

To veer off into soul land, I suspect that humans could be, in fact, expressed here in 3D world as composite beings mimicking a single intellect, due to mechanics that made sense to me long ago when my brain worked better (my memory isn't photographic, rather it's more an impressionistic watercolor), but I suspect we are more ... well, more (as in more complex), in the "overworld" from which we extrude into our meat suits... and perhaps a couple zillion mathematical sets "up" are really one consciousness/life form/thing.

Buuuut, the only solid knowledge I have is that the reality of our universe will be found to be far weirder and varied than anyone suspects down here.

a reply to: Peeple

Ah, yes.. .thanks. I perfect example of a possibly valid view taken to ignorant extremes due to a paucity of available information... like all the paranormal explorations done by man that I know of, heh.

There is really no more of a slippery slope than the whole "possession" idea... where does draw a line between where one consciousness begins and another ends? Are these demons really generated or attracted by straying from arbitrary lines in the Churchy sand, or are they playing by rules we lost in some cosmic move, or corrupted in some eons long game of telephone using various languages and slang?

Beats me... but I bet it's important, due to it having a real aspect to it!

a reply to: Baddogma

Another good 'argument in favor of' souls is the fact that studies have shown that babies come into the world with distinct personalities...

...and having raised my own child, as well as many others (right from birth - I worked as a live in nanny for various families for about 15 years), I can attest to personal observation that there is an individual 'person' in each of those tiny little, brand new bodies...

a reply to: Baddogma

Great post.

And yes, the human race as a whole is insane.

There is no logical case to deny that.

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

Each baby has unique DNA which markedly modifies personality. There are also intra-uterine epigenetic factors.

And perhaps most of all, the brain starts generating a sense of self most rapidly, possibly even in the womb.

But sure...a little influence from the major zone beings as well.

And maybe 2% of the time an honest to God soul which has incarnated before.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

I too wonder about what "seeds" may be "powering" us from Overworld.

I just don't know for sure.

One single "spirit" for the human race may exist...and we confusedly see individual sparkles of it.

This is possible..

There are reasons that I do not cling to this possibility...very good reasons.

Clinging to the idea of souls is the single most toxic thing which exists...and it's "souls" which are prompting the destruction of all life on Earth.

Kev

originally posted by: jacygirl
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Twice in my life I have heard someone's thoughts and answered them aloud, with a third person present who didn't hear what I did...and the person (I heard) remarking immediately that they had 'just been thinking that' (but didn't SAY it).

What 'validatory belief' does anyone have for that one?

Anaana...My apologies. I get extremely defensive when people talk about their experiences and someone who doesn't have 'weirdness' immediately claims it's psychosis (a serious mental 'disorder' not 'illness', sorry again).

Psychosis is a symptom associated with "mental illness" but what it describes is a temporary break from the general perceived reality. That is, hearing, seeing, feeling etc, things that other people do not however isolated or short term. Such as, someone saying your name. Psychosis does not explain the why, just the manifestation of a recognised human phenomenon and that enables it to be measured according to a scale of impact or to help identify the cause/s. Psychosis in itself does not denote mental illness, but it can be symptomatic of debilitating thought processes that can lead to psychological damage, both long and short term, but often exacerbated by self-abuse patterns.

It must be nice to feel "special" and have the sense that now and then you can read other people's minds, however, imagine what it must be like to be assailed by such information constantly. I reckon that could send you potty, don't you? What we deem acceptable psychosis and unacceptable psychosis depends upon the social systems which normalise, by favouring or rewarding, certain behaviours. You seek to have your sense of specialness reaffirmed by coming here and sharing your occasional experiences of psychosis, yet label someone as mentally ill who has to endure those kind of experiences continuously. Your psychosis is socially acceptable, their's is not. You feel reaffirmed, they are cast out. We can't have it both ways, if your's and beansidhe etc voices are "real", then so are everyone else's and we should stop bandying around labels of mental illness willy-nilly.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Anaana

Aaw, thanks. I'll be well, I'm pretty sure I'm ok.
The thing is, I wouldn't qualify for a brief psychotic episode under DSM V criteria, since there haven't been consistent symptoms for a month, no disordered thoughts or speech, no command hallucinations etc.

The DSM gets consulted if you are considered a danger to yourself or to others, and because they are about to section you and want to make sure they have ticked the legal requirements for doing so.

The NHS criteria is more suited to general reference.

The two main symptoms of psychosis are:

hallucinations – where a person hears, sees and, in some cases, feels, smells or tastes things that aren't there; a common hallucination is hearing voices
delusions – where a person believes things that, when examined rationally, are obviously untrue – for example, thinking your next door neighbour is planning to kill you

The combination of hallucinations and delusional thinking can often severely disrupt perception, thinking, emotion, and behaviour.

Experiencing the symptoms of psychosis is often referred to as having a psychotic episode.

Most importantly...

People with psychosis often have a lack of insight. They're unaware that they're thinking and acting strangely.

Because of their lack of insight, it's often down to the friends, relatives, or carers of a person affected by psychosis to seek help for them.

If you're concerned about someone you know and think they may have psychosis, you could contact their social worker or community mental health nurse if they've previously been diagnosed with a mental health condition.

www.nhs.uk...

As I said, as long as you are in good health and aware of what you are "playing" with, you're a big girl and I know you can take care of yourself, but if in doubt your own judgement is not always to be relied upon. It's just worth bearing in mind, particularly if you have responsibilities.

originally posted by: Baddogma
and then there was a weird, light-sucking effect around her and the staff seriously wondered if a priest/shaman would help her, once one brazen soul broached the subject and all our suspicions and experiences spilled out.. .

Her Majesty's Prison Service are not averse to diffusing situations amongst female inmates by employing the services of a variety of "exorcists". Those initiated into anti-social or criminal behaviour are often deeply "religious" and as easily spooked, I suppose it comes from living along an edge, that can intensify when you're cut off from your "normal" life leading to a greater reliance of ritualised behaviours. If you get even a small group with similar codes sharing the space with a group with another code, as with Afro-Caribbean and Irish travellers say, one small infraction and they will start "hexing" the hell out of each other. A Roman Catholic priest can diffuse a situation like that in moments, partly because he believes as much as they do in the power and superiority of his mojo, and also because they're willing concede to a male practitioner as intermediary, for different, but equally facilitatory reasons.

a reply to: Anaana

Ahh, I see. The definition of psychosis was written because you believe that I am ignorant.

That's fine...it's an assumption that you've made. However, my experiences have proven that assumptions are rarely correct and can be dangerous when blindly accepted and then turned into beliefs.

Now because of your assumption, you've come to the conclusion (belief) that I am uneducated in regards to the topic of mental health.
MY assumption is that you are not understanding some of the tongue-in-cheek humour displayed here on occasion by members; after reading a lot of their material (from here and blogs)...I've come to the conclusion (belief) that they are extremely intelligent and (in my opinion) sane.

Without wanting this to sound like a back-handed compliment...I also find you very intelligent, just judgemental. I get the impression that it's really important to you that others view you as intelligent. (At least with your vast knowledge of mental health you are no doubt already aware of your own issues.)

I see that you favour the use of the word 'special' when referring to me, although it does appear to be a rather accusatory reference. Especially when reading this:
"You seek to have your sense of specialness reaffirmed by coming here and sharing your occasional experiences of psychosis...". (When exactly did I "label someone as mentally ill who has to endure those kind of experiences continuously."???)

Again, assuming/conclusion/belief.
My reason for being here is clearly stated in the title of this thread.
"Baddogma's Meta Cafe - Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness"
Broken down:
Baddogma...a member I like. Polite Discussions...sounds good.
Scientific Mysticism...that will cover a lot. General Weirdness...that will cover the rest.

To bring this to a close...your last sentence:
"We can't have it both ways, if your's and beansidhe etc voices are "real", then so are everyone else's and we should stop bandying around labels of mental illness willy-nilly."

Aha! Finally we agree! We should definitely stop bandying around labels of mental illness and psychosis.

Note: If anyone is of the opinion that I'm not qualified/intelligent enough to participate in this thread and that my delusional drivel is wasting space...please let me know.
jacy