The Aliens are Silent because They're Dead

a reply to: Phage

Absolutely agree about evolution being about survival, but mutation is key to human evolution and brain development. My only point being what if evolving life on an alien planet had a different type of mutation in their brain and became super intelligent.

Speaking of intelligence, who are we to consider humans as intelligent? To an alien we might be like ants to them. We are intelligent because of our imagination but isn't it only in theory that we are the only living thing on the planet that questions it's own existence? Hasn't it been proven that some animals dream? Why couldn't they ponder reality too?

Animals continue to evolve with human intervention, change of habitat, migration patterns, diets, life expectancy, etc...

a reply to: NewzNose

Mostly because the so called "Aliens" act exactly like angels and demons. They possess, just like demons, they suck out your energy, just like demons do. The characteristics between aliens vs angels and demons are extremely similar.

I used to believe in the whole alien thing before i began researching into MK ultra and area 51. I found a video awhile back of a Area 51 caller calling a radio show. This was the first time I ever opened my mind on the possibility on ET's being demonic/angelic. But perhaps both labels are describing the same beings. I mean people have reported seeing the "Gods" for centuries. Who's to say, that the bible was not referring to these entities in the first place? Be then angels, demons or aliens. Ezequiel, actually described "a ufo" when talking about an angel descending from heaven.





Strangely enough, some time later he called back saying it was a joke. But for some reason, it felt off, as if he was threatened to say it was a lie. Least thats my theory on what happened. However, what caught me off guard, was when he said "they are not what they appear to be" when he spoke about the et's.

You ever seen the flying V UFOs which usually come in numbers of 7? There are some articles suggesting that they are the seven. The seven Archs. But there is one diamond shaped ufo that holds lucifer. This diamond shaped UFO has an all seeing eye in the middle of it.

Former member (May he rest in peace) Risingagainst, posted thread that also confirmed that I was not seeing things. In the thread, was an infamous case of a UFO sighting In Rendlesham. When describing some of the "UFO" this is what was spoken during that incident:

Lt. Colonel Halt: Strange. One again left. Let's approach the edge of the woods at that point. Can we do without lights? Let's do it carefully, come on... OK we're looking at the thing, we're probably about 2-3 hundred yards away. It looks like an eye winking at you, it's still moving from side to side and when we put the star scope on it, it's sort of a hollow centre right, a dark centre, it's...

Lt. Englund: It's like a pupil...


Lt. Colonel Halt: It's like the pupil of an eye looking at you, winking...and the flash is so bright to the Star scope, err.... it almost burns your eye.
[Break in tape]
Click for Source Thread(It is worth reading it whole).

Now you know why NASA uses the "Vector" symbolism.



I have seen it in the morning sky. And gaga has referred to it recently, because she appeared within a similar "diamond" shape.



And finally the clues Hollywood gives us in the movie "Prometheus" which was about "Aliens" yet, somehow, "Prometheus" is also a reference to Lucifer.

The Goddess "ISiS" was said to come from "Sirius", according to some ancient Egyptian mythology. Yet she is depicted with "wings" like angels. Implying she came from the sky. The annunaki were also said to be angels from planet x, or "nibiru".


Of course, none of this is proof of anything, but they are clues that may or may not lead to the truth. For all we know, Angels and demons could also be a similar label like "aliens". Whichever name you want to give them, history describes them both in some way shape or form in very similar manners.

However, to me personally, they are demons/angels. Both are not friends. From what I can tell. I'd describe my own personal experience with them, but I'd rather not. Mostly for obvious reasons. What I can say is, trust your intuition with regards to these beings. No matter what label you give them, they are not our friends.

Edit to add:

And with Planet X resurfacing, we may or may not have our answers in our lifetime.

a reply to: game over man
I didn't say that there can't be creatures that are more intelligent (however you classify it) than humans. I said that intelligence (as we do classify it) does not indicate advancement from an evolutionary perspective.

There was life on Earth for millions upon millions of years before there was anything but single celled organisms. Animal life came way after that. Protohumans came long, long after that. Human life, intelligent life, is an eyeblink. Easy to overlook in a vast galaxy covering thousands of light years and billions of years of various stages of development.

a reply to: tanka418

From my undersanding SETI looks for narrowband/pulsed signals. They are not looking to pick up any encoded data.

According to this paper ( arxiv.org... ) our planetary radars (Arecibo, GBT) should be able to pick up extraterrestrial planetary radar signals at a distance of 15 parsec (~50 light-years) with 10 minutes max integration time. Which is not too bad I'd think.

Aliens are dead because like humans we haven't woken up to fight against government. So just like humans which are dead they are dead among us but what if we're all dead and the dead is living?

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Harte

Some of the microwaves we receive from space start out around 20 Gw. That's not Jiggawatts.

Harte

Most signals received from space originate within a star...so, the power is a wee bit more than mere gigawatts. And most of those are rather weak.

That's quite true. But not the microwaves that come from excited hydrogen in nebulae.

The are excited by the stars nearby, but they come from the gas and start out around 20 GW.

Also, they are not directed so they spread in the normal spherical way.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

So even in the best possible case, it's unlikely still that we will ever receive anything we can verify as a legitimate signal.

Then why do they monitor? They have a big array of telescope dishes and computers monitoring 'millions' of channels…

for what? I like to listen to Conch shells too, but I'm not going to spend a bunch of money and do that for very long.

They'd think I was nuts…

Whoops: ha ha, I as just musing how many people spend all their time listening for spirit messages on "Ghost boxes".

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Harte

So even in the best possible case, it's unlikely still that we will ever receive anything we can verify as a legitimate signal.

Then why do they monitor? They have a big array of telescope dishes and computers monitoring 'millions' of channels…

Because we ourselves purposefully broadcast a powerful enough omnidirectional signal that a civilization as far away as several thousand light years with similar equipment that SETI uses would be able to detect.

If we did that, maybe another civilization has done the same, sending an intentionally powerful and focused message in our general direction in hopes that another civilization is out here somewhere.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Because we ourselves purposefully broadcast a powerful enough omnidirectional signal that a civilization as far away as several thousand light years with similar equipment that SETI uses would be able to detect.

A Thousand years from now. They'll have Ralph Cramden as our dignitary.

Personally I'd prefer the sound a Conch shell makes. Much more soothing.

I get the whole broadcast thing, but like Harte said, the signal is dissipated over such ranges. Hardly detectable a thousand light years out.

Imo, again, life is already spread through the cosmos, they know we're here, they put us here.

Helloooo...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Because we ourselves purposefully broadcast a powerful enough omnidirectional signal that a civilization as far away as several thousand light years with similar equipment that SETI uses would be able to detect.

A Thousand years from now. They'll have Ralph Cramden as our dignitary.

The figure in the signal I was talking about would need more pixels around the mid-section to be Ralph Cramden :



Wikipedia - Arecibo Message

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
I see. I was thinking further along these lines. You know if a satellite from space was to beam down randomly, here and there to see if anyone answered, they would have a hard time finding anyone listening in.

They have to precisely hit a receiver and transmit their signals so the receiver on earth can capture and interpret them. For instance you point your direct tv dish at a satellite up there to get broadcasts. You have to know exactly were it is and be able to decode the signal.

And all that is just from orbit to the surface.

If we're talking light years, then lots of luck pointing a dish and beaming a signal at random stars out there. Thats like I said, pointing a transmission from a space satellite at random sea islands in the ocean to see if anyone is there.

It has to be inhabited, they have to have similar technology, be listening, and able to decode it for all the noise.

They could for all that just be down for maintenance at the time.

Pretty small odds. Plus anything traveling at light speed still takes a long time to reach between places. Even if they explore the stars at light speed, it takes years to get the message and respond.

Then even if we get the message, we can't go there. It will be such a tease.

What if they are like us, destructive and control freaks?

No thanks. I think the ones that put us here are protecting us till we pass then we get to learn a whole other paradigm. The Universe is our future playground.

Until then it just doesn't make sense, we haven't heard a peep for all the monitoring. We're on the wrong channel. The sea conch channel.

originally posted by: Harte
The are excited by the stars nearby, but they come from the gas and start out around 20 GW.

Just to place this in proper perspective: 20GW at 1 ly is aprox. 20e-21 watts when it is received...oh wait, that signal is far to small to receive, We will need some serous amplification technology, way more than a simple amplifier...

You see normally a signal like that would be received by a high gain antenna, perhaps 20db or so...about 10X (this will make our signal 20e-20 watts)...we will still need to amplify (apply gain) the signal more than ten trillion times to make it detectable to today's electronic systems.

And after we do all this...we have ourselves a rather nice "natural occurring" radio signal. If, by some remote chance we manage to receive a signal that had "intelligence" on it at onetime...that "intelligence" is for ever gone, lost in our attempts to receive the signal.

originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: tanka418

From my undersanding SETI looks for narrowband/pulsed signals. They are not looking to pick up any encoded data.

According to this paper ( arxiv.org... ) our planetary radars (Arecibo, GBT) should be able to pick up extraterrestrial planetary radar signals at a distance of 15 parsec (~50 light-years) with 10 minutes max integration time. Which is not too bad I'd think.

Narrow band / pulsed signals are statistically more likely to be artificial. However, CETI still uses the same methods and techniques that Radio Astronomy uses to detect the signals in the first place.

And, since CETI does not "look" for "intelligence" in these signals, they can never truly know IF a signal is natural or manufactured.

Earth could easily be receiving radio and television (or the equivalent) from other civilizations, and because of the methods used to "look" never be aware of them.

a reply to: Phage

Correct so maybe we should at least look for earth like planets near stars that are 4.6 billion years or older? If we assume evolution is the same on every planet. I'm sure we have some candidates that could potentially have intelligent life on them right now...

The author is most likely correct assuming he is referring to this one single dimension in time. However, if we believe the theoretical existence of multiple time dimensions then that is a different story. As we grow to understand our Universe and how gravity, space, and dimensional time interact (which we still do not) then we begin to understand there is a lot we don't yet understand. How can a particle be proven to exist in 2 different places at the same time? Not sure...but it has been proven yet we have no clue how it occurred.

We can't even begin to grasp the number of total dimensions there are let alone what laws govern those dimensions. If we are a zygote on the evolutionary scale and a level of advancement is signified by our mastery of this single time dimension of today then we have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before we can even begin to postulate how to exist in multiple time dimensions let alone understand a race (figuratively) light years ahead of us.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Harte
The are excited by the stars nearby, but they come from the gas and start out around 20 GW.

Just to place this in proper perspective: 20GW at 1 ly is aprox. 20e-21 watts when it is received...oh wait, that signal is far to small to receive, We will need some serous amplification technology, way more than a simple amplifier...

You see normally a signal like that would be received by a high gain antenna, perhaps 20db or so...about 10X (this will make our signal 20e-20 watts)...we will still need to amplify (apply gain) the signal more than ten trillion times to make it detectable to today's electronic systems.

And after we do all this...we have ourselves a rather nice "natural occurring" radio signal. If, by some remote chance we manage to receive a signal that had "intelligence" on it at onetime...that "intelligence" is for ever gone, lost in our attempts to receive the signal.

Your calculations are correct. I read what I posted online the other day about a 20 GW signal.

How did they receive it?

I mean, surely the power density wasn't 20GW when it got here and I know the source (can't remember exactly what) was more than a lightyear away. It was a nebula.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
How did they receive it?

High gain antenna, followed by high gain - seriously cooled preamplifier stages. The cooling reduces the junction noise of the semiconductors used in the preamplifiers...

This "junction noise" is one of the largest issues in receiving very weak signals...fortunately liquid Nitrogen helps a lot...

While 20db gain is a lot for an antenna, it is nothing to an active amplifies stage, and those weak signals that started off at 1.0e-21v/m can be amplified to Nano volts (e-09) rather easily; once they are, they are received...or rather easy to process with ordinary equipment...

To be honest, I don’t know what SETI’s methodology/protocol is for analyzing the signal data received by their equipment. Attempting to decode “intelligent” signals would seem to me a futile endeavor and waste of time and money. A more fruitful effort (it would seem to me) would be attempting to detect biosignatures eminating from some targeted region of space (Kepler-452b, for ex.); something highly probable of being biological in origin, and also highly improbable of emanating from a nonbiological source. After fine-tuning the process, and including additional nonbiological chemical spectral analysis, it may then be soon possible to make “educated guesses” as to the evolutionary stage of the detected signatures; ie. microbial single-celled organisms/macro scale organisms/signs of technology, etc. As our instruments become more and more sensitive, this may be one approach. Listening for a “Hello” signal makes no sense to me.

It also seems to me that any significantly advanced technology, one capable of interstellar travel, would have to find an alternative means of communicating other than via EM radiation. If you’re going to go zipping around the galaxy at ftl speed via warp drive, wormholes, or whatever, then you’d need to be able to communicate at ftl speed, as well. In which case, we may not be able to detect them at all.

I didn’t realize the proposal recently made by the Australian astrobiologists was anything new. Maybe it was just a more in depth study of an old idea. If other life out there in the cosmos is anything like us, then I imagine “intelligent” life is a rarity. Personally, I think Humanity will be lucky to make it another 2 centuries before blowing itself to smithereens.

originally posted by: netbound
To be honest, I don’t know what SETI’s methodology/protocol is for analyzing the signal data received by their equipment. Attempting to decode “intelligent” signals would seem to me a futile endeavor and waste of time and money. A more fruitful effort (it would seem to me) would be attempting to detect biosignatures eminating from some targeted region of space (Kepler-452b, for ex.); something highly probable of being biological in origin, and also highly improbable of emanating from a nonbiological source. After fine-tuning the process, and including additional nonbiological chemical spectral analysis, it may then be soon possible to make “educated guesses” as to the evolutionary stage of the detected signatures; ie. microbial single-celled organisms/macro scale organisms/signs of technology, etc. As our instruments become more and more sensitive, this may be one approach. Listening for a “Hello” signal makes no sense to me.

IIRC, SETI is no longer funded by the government.

Detecting possible biological evidence elsewhere requires telescopes that can do this, one of which is coming in less than two years.

Harte

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
While other intelligent life almost surely exists somewhere else in the universe just due to the shear size of the universe, I do think that life that exists "right now" may be rare, and may not really be close enough to us for us to have an occasion to find them (or them find us).

Let's consider just our part of our galaxy -- let's say our quarter of it, or our "quadrant" of it, in Star Trek terms. Sure -- there may be thousands and thousands of places in our quadrant where life had a good chance to emerge. Maybe some life did emerge, and went on to become intelligent and technological.

However, "Time" is also a factor here. Maybe one of those civilizations emerged 200 million years ago (a very short time in cosmological terms, but a long time for biology). It could have flourished for 2 million years (again, a long time for biology as we know it) and then died out. Then another might have come along elsewhere, and then eventually died out...

...There could have been several hundred technological civilizations just in our quadrant of the galaxy that lived and died in the cosmologically short span of the past 200 million years, but maybe there are none, or maybe only one or two, that are around today.

That could be why we haven't had an occasion to meet them. The possible time frame during which they existed and died out is just too large.

You have hit on something that just might be plausible because it makes sense, however simply you put it. I may have to agree on some points, especially the time gap between civilizations that existed since the Universe began and us, is just too damn large.

Good point sir!