Does a Human Being Have a Right to Exist Free from Government and Society?

a reply to: Metallicus

The reality is that there's not a speck of dirt on the planet that isn't owned and governed by someone or something.

Sorry charlie, but you missed the boat by about 5000 years.



So now what ?!

Well, the best any of us can do is to scratch our own little piece of dirt for ourselves and learn to work within the system to make it as beneficial and advantageous for ourselves and our families as much as possible.

Another words, you take lemons and you turn it into lemonade.



That's a much more constructive remedy to a 'problem' than say... complaining and being angry/resentful at the world for not being born in the geological timeframe that would have been more suitable to your personality.

a reply to: Ghost147

However, I would say the best bet would be to make it easier for tight-knit communities to form and live, things like communes and little 'micro societies'. If we can make it viable, safe, and legal to form 'off-grid' communities, then I would say that would be the best of both worlds.

Three words - Amish.

Free Range Humans...

I would like that a lot!

a reply to: Excallibacca Yes, exactly. Isn't forced taxation Sharia law? Somebody had to say it.

a reply to: Metallicus

My answer to your question would be a simple yes. It's either yes or no and I say yes.

a reply to: Metallicus

It's like a political Schroedingers cat ...

Does a man cease to exist if he is removed from society ... or is he only real if their is a community around him to see him?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Metallicus

I think you are asking the wrong question, it should be is it possible for a human being to live free from society and government and the answer seems a rather obvious no.

Unless you can describe to me how a human being can live completely separate from society then the right will remiain a moot point. Even in the smallest communities you will still have government and society.

I dont think you understand the word "goverment"
think of it like "parents", someone who tells you what you can or cant, what to do and so on. THATS goverment

So what parents do, is to teach you lessons, and prepare you for a life of your own. Many of us, thinks we have bad parents, cause they lie to us, dont share knowledge, dont let us live our own life, and they have taken over the whole planet, so we can not move out on our own! So the question is, should we be allowed to leave home, grow up and have a place of our own?
I think yes, it should be our birth right!

What youre saying, is that were not capable of handling our own lifes, we need parents in form of goverment and society
But you can only speak from your own perspective, and you might need someone to look after you, and tell you what to do, and thats fine, but some of us, feels we would rather learn to talk and walk ourselfs, instead of what we feel are abuse, from our parents side, and would rather live by our own, than spending one more second in our "parents" house. Problem is, there is no place to move

So "brother", do you really not think we can handle ourselfs without our parents?? would YOU allow us the chance to prove ourself? thats the real question, cause one day our parents will be old and weak, with lots of children who never learned the knowledge of our family, and then what will you do?? stop breathing because no one tells you to do so??

ETA:

a reply to: Metallicus

Its you enslaving yourself..myself too. We live in our society because we obviously don't want to or can't leave.

But no one is stopping us from heading north or south 1000 miles to the forests or jungles and start our own ways of living-society.

You're wanting to stay put and have things change...it won't. Not enough people care and just go on living with the same societal status quo.

We can always leave..

a reply to: Metallicus

Does a human being have a right to exist without joining a society or government (at least in an official way). People are, in my opinion, born into slavery 99.9% of the time. Unless you are born into a lost tribe in the jungles of Peru then you have been a slave from birth.

The moment we are born we are ALREADY part of a society, are we not? Do our mothers just plop us out onto the ground somewhere and keep on moving? No, we are raised from that very first moment to be part of whatever the situation we were born into dictates. Having parents is a social bond and by having parents we are trained and molded to do things their way. Well before any of us individuals attains a level of individual consciousness we have already had years and years of conditioning that forms the very being of who we are and will be for the rest of our lives.

Even that lost tribe you mention. Families, extended familes, tribes, villages,towns cities, city states, nations? It's all a matter of degree and size.

So you mention "Brave New World." Right there I have to pull up short. Not that I did not read it as a teenager or that I do not see the parallels to the societies of the world today but I came to realize that that was a fictional novel based ideas that are more simplistic than we know them to be today. Same with 1984. Chilled me to the bone when I read it in 1963.

I understand that you want to be free, that you want to be your own man, to be an individual. Well me too, and I venture a guess that most everyone on ATS does too. But it also seems to me that you are holding to some form of extreme, or rather idealistic concept of freedom and individuality that DOES NOT EXIST. Never did and never will.

If you want to be free of govt ties, you'll probably end up like the people in Waco

a reply to: Metallicus

Yes its called being a "freeman of the land". But if you chose to live as a freeman you also get none of the benefits of being a citizen.





You have to give up your birth certificate and passport for a start.

a reply to: Metallicus

I absolutely think there should be another option for people like you. I totally get it. On one hand, it is unfair to the rest of us if you stop paying taxes, start breaking laws, and still benefit from our society. On the other hand, I think it is BS that, if the government found a person living off the land in some remote mountain region, that person would have to account for themselves and be involved with the "system".

I would fully support allowing citizens to disappear off of the map and never be bothered by the government again. Those former citizens would not be allowed into any city limits (since they aren't Americans at that point but illegal immigrants) nor use any publicly-funded facility but they would also be allowed to do whatever they wanted where ever they decide to set up at.

I honestly do not mean any of this facetiously. I think it is unfair to expect everybody to follow rules they absolutely do not identify with while not allowing them the freedom to "opt-out" of it.

a reply to: Metallicus

Apparently not. Even if you own a little $60,000.00 bunglalow in the middle of BFE West Texas, you still have to pay property taxes to support some crappy school system, pay for deeper potholes and of course part of the salaries of the malicious idiots at the County tax office.

So essentially, unless you live under a bridge in LA you're going to have to pay some kind of "rent" to some bogus government agency somewhere.

a reply to: Excallibacca

I draw the line at being FORCED to donate my money.

Everyone is being forced to donate money in the form of taxes . The government needs income to provide citizens with services like fire protection, police, street repairs, infrastructure repair, water etc.... It's how it's spent is the main issue. Do you really think complaining about your taxes going toward programs that will benefit you if you're having a hard time finding a job and you need to provide for your family is a bad thing? Or making sure you have access to a monthly income you paid into all your life once you retire? Do you have any idea the outrageous monthly costs associated with nursing care once you can no longer take care of yourself?

I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you can justify supporting programs that spend trillions of dollars on weapons, or providing outrageous salaries and benefits for political positions that should only be temporary and not a life long career. Your expectation for "donating" in the form of taxes should directly benefit programs that help you and your fellow citizens. The majority of a governments budget shouldn't be going for covert operations to influence another countries form of government or feeding the military complex.

I hear more citizens like yourself complaining about government waste on programs that directly benefit you. It's like your shooting yourself in the foot. Yet never complain about the excessive amount of government waste spent on programs that don't benefit those who finance it with their taxes.

Yes.....You have a right to freedom........complete and total freedom.....
Only its the freedom of your mind......
Keep your head free..........your body is only a temporary vehicle....
Like some psychological saboteur.....linger in the background.....and only when you know you can be effective.....then strike the blow for freedom!
Your own will allows you total freedom of mind....

Of course, if the government agreed that you did have a right to do this ... and enough people followed you, say you all started a Galt's Gulch somewhere, what happens when the government you spawned from decides to view you as a rogue society and comes to reign you in and bring you back into the fold?

a reply to: Metallicus

Yes but only if this person does not accept any government benefits including housing, welfare, dental care, medical, and retirement benefits.....than yes otherwise get back in line like the rest of us and serve.

a reply to: Metallicus

short answer yes.

long answer, stay two steps ahead , and always watch your back. THen there will be no goverment, just obsticals.

I think the obvious benefits that society brings justifies the "structure" of society. One truly cannot exist apart from society, the sheer mass of numbers, to a degree, calls for the group to act collectively in ITS own behalf.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few", is a classic quote on the matter....but the concepts behind it have been perverted, where The Few benefit from the needs of The Many. In fact, and artificial situation has been created where The Many rely on The Few for their livelihood (for lack of a better term).

a reply to: Metallicus
That's why people live off the grid.