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A lesson in Narrative Biblical Observation

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posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

You have to be kidding.
Who they would vote for?

Are you for real?




posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 05:02 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Everyone has a role



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

In a simple observation without further investigation will lead us to just the generalities as seen.

The exercise in observing the picture it was to help us learn not to add to what you can only see. Adding to the picture with things like "I see two men on the roof Toking out". the first part of the observation was correct but the last part was adding by the viewer. Now there is no way he could tell their activity from the Picture.

Now reading narratives in the Bible it is the same way people read it and try to interpret but have not done a good job at observing the text first. They add bias and opinion before they have studied out the text.

Normally we follow a three step Study pattern Observation, Interpretation and Application.

First we simply read it, it must be done without bias and addition.

Secondly, we read through the text again questions. Who, What, When, Where, Why, which, and How (reread asking and answering each Question if possible) these questions are very important. i.e. we must learn who is speaking, who are the the people in the text, who is being spoken too, what are their roles in the text, Who are they in society. Why are they there, what reasons put them in that situation, and so forth and so on. we would compile our info using a simple column and row Chart.

Thirdly, from the fact we gained we could then begin to interpret or understand the text correctly. If there is further need we could go to word study. First in English, then in Hebrew or Greek if needed.

Fourth, we would take our findings and see from them if there is an example of life or application we could apply to our life today.


edit on 23-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 11:36 AM
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Op is mad people won't play HIS way, so he is taking his ball and going home in a huff. He has set himself up as a "teacher" yet failed to learn the lessons himself. It's not about "narrative." It's about not treating your fellow posters with respect and expecting them to play a game while OP is rewarding and punishing the players on how "well" they are doing in his eyes. He wanted everyone to be submissive. They aren't. He's mad. Too bad.



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

Not at all my friend.

Reading attitudes and emotions into a post without Tonality of speech, Body language and Eye contact leads people to "assume"(key word here) other posters are emotional or having a certain type of personality they are not.

This is called adding to the text/post. You made an assumption of attitude, emotion and personality without any proof of attitude in the text of the post. This is called pretexting, that is coming to the post with a PRECONCEIVED Idea about the poster and then adding your emotion, attitude and personality you wish the poster to have to justify your statement/application of the text.

This is exactly what people do when they go to the Bible and read it. They come to it with preconceived ideas, emotions and attitudes they project on the characters (people) and the text (the writings).

The exercise in observation of the picture was to show how easy that is to do. and the following exercises would have shown how to correctly observe a text/post/writing. Unless I put the trade mark indicators (certain words) in the text which I don't believe I did, you would have no way to say anything about me is fact and be within ten miles of truth.

I honestly thought that if I started a thread that could help people to better understand Biblical text it would help them to see more truth from the Bible.

My bad for thinking it was a good idea.






edit on 23-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TzarChasm

In a simple observation without further investigation will lead you to just the generalities as seen.

The exercise in observing the picture it was to help you learn not to add to what you can only see. Adding to the picture with things like "I see two men on the roof Toking out". the first part of the observation was correct but the last part was adding by the viewer. Now there is no way he could tell their activity from the Picture.

Now reading narratives in the Bible it is the same way people read it and try to interpret but have not done a good job at observing the text first. They add bias and opinion before they have studied out the text.

Normally we follow a three step Study pattern Observation, Interpretation and Application.

First we simply read it, it must be done without bias and addition.

Secondly, we read through the text again questions. Who, What, When, Where, Why, which, and How (reread asking and answering each Question if possible) these questions are very important. i.e. we must learn who is speaking, who are the the people in the text, who is being spoken too, what are their roles in the text, Who are they in society. Why are they there, what reasons put them in that situation, and so forth and so on. we would compile our info using a simple column and row Chart.

Thirdly, from the fact we gained we could then begin to interpret or understand the text correctly. If there is further need we could go to word study. First in English, then in Hebrew or Greek if needed.

Fourth, we would take our findings and see from them if there is an example of life or application we could apply to our life today.



Firstly - an image is NOT text, as has been pointed out.

Secondly - the language of a 'picture' does NOT need to be translated several times into different 'versions' for an audience to understand it, images are universal.

Thirdly - text is not 'observed'...it is read.

Why you would ignore this, is fairly obvious...

Å99



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: akushla99

Please don't over look the point of the exercise.

For beginners this is where we start in the lesson. Everyone knows a picture is not a text. But text are pictured in our minds and it is there where we need to learn how to control our responses to what we see in a picture or in a text. so that we can be intellectually honest with the text in Question. We clearly do observe text when reading it or we would not be able to understand it at all, but observing it wrongly leads us to wrong conclusions. Observing the text correctly whether a post or the Bible will lead us to proper reaction (application).

Like I said, my mistake for even thinking this was a good idea. Obviously from yours and others responses it wasn't.

I am sorry my bad.
edit on 23-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: akushla99

Please don't over look the point of the exercise.

For beginners this is where we start in the lesson. Everyone knows a picture is not a text. But text are pictured in our minds and it is there where we need to learn how to control our responses to what we see in a picture or in a text. so that we can be intellectually honest with the text in Question.

Like I said my mistake for even thinking this was a good idea. Obviously from yours and others responses it wasn't.

I am sorry my bad.


Like I've credited - the notion you are TRYING to convey is sound. The example you are/have been using, has nothing to do with text...they are processed differently in the brain, the comparison is a particularly weak one, and speaks of what you know about visual communication, which appears to be almost zero...and some here know about visual communication...

You cannot continue to use an example that relies on the brains' processes to 'observe' an image to 'teach' how text is 'observed' - quite apart from the questions raised by using ATS as a sunday school teachers desk.

'My bad' - hahaha, it is your bad, claim it!
This has been a lesson in ignorance, and posters are correctly Denying it...

Å99
edit on 23-1-2016 by akushla99 because: Deny it



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


The exercise in observing the picture it was to help us learn not to add to what you can only see. Adding to the picture with things like "I see two men on the roof Toking out". the first part of the observation was correct but the last part was adding by the viewer. Now there is no way he could tell their activity from the Picture.

This reminds me of a seminar I went to - audience mostly total "newbies", (few of whom were over 25......and most of whom were childless recent 'grads' with a bachelor's degree)

this 'exercise' they gave us - a drawing of a living room (much like yours - a line drawing; and btw it's not a bad drawing at all, ChesterJohn! Decent sketch for sure!), and we were supposed to "notice" all the things that were "red flags" if we were to arrive unannounced to inspect a home accused of child neglect/abuse.

Example: dog in the kitchen




pfft....
just saying...just telling that story.......
I was reminded of it, that's all. No attack intended.


edit on 1/23/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: typo sure



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I got a good laugh out of that.

Thanks for lightening up thread.



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well. you're quite welcome!

Which did you like better???
Ricky Gervais and Noah's Ark??????? or - my experience with newbie don't-get-it-at-alls? Asking sincerely ----

IMO, Ricky Gervais wins.

Also, do you know who Eddie Izzard is?

Do the people who come to your class "to learn about the Bible" know who either of them are?



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: schuyler

Not at all my friend.


You are not my friend. You have failed to understand the issues here. You are not superior to the rest of us. Your thread has failed in its intent. You stated you "were done" and would conduct your course via PM.

That sounds like a fine idea.



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


The exercise in observation of the picture was to show how easy that is to do. and the following exercises would have shown how to correctly observe a text/post/writing.

Did you watch the video of "The Book of Noah" a la Ricky Gervais?

"I believed in all this until I was....eight."



edit on 1/23/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No.

Why?

The book of Noah is not inspired of God.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

I never claimed superiority.

I have yet to continue in presenting any further exercises. But when people think they can judge me without proof I can continue to show how incorrect their observation work is, which was the point of the exercise that was in the OP.

Your post is a perfect example of adding to a text without having proof of your observations.

Show the key words where I claim superiority?

Show the Text that said I am better than you?

Show the text that I am mad at anyone?

Show by the text that I was disrespectful to you or any other poster.

Show where I rewarded or punished anyone? Only one person even tried the exercise, and I praised him for doing a good job. Yet his observations were not totally perfect. Just because I gave kudo's it is not reward. the only person I gave a star too was Buzzywigs for the Laugh and that was after you post above saying I was mad at people for not playing along

Show where I was trying to make anyone involuntarily submit to me? If you agreed to try the exercise it was not necessarily and act of submission to me but rather to the rules of observation.

You are incorrect in your observations of me and I could play the odds you do this quite often to other peoples posts as well.


edit on 24-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Hopefully you will read up on the differences between visual & text-based comprehension, and not continue with this exercise under its present form - because it is in no way analogous from the first 'exercise' onward, is misleading, and is showing a very rudimentary knowledge of the salient differences between strictly visual and strictly textual comprehension: i.e. The bible is NOT a picture book, it has NO pictures, and does not even fall into the category of multi-modal comprehension...therefore, an example that uses an image to explain the vagaries of comprehension of mono-modal comprehension is a ridiculous one.

Why you are completely ignoring this, and not altering (i.e. using text as an example) is either willful ignorance (stubborness) or, intellectual dishonesty.

The reason why this must be so has been pointed out (and, it would be up to you to invest the time to discover why this is so).

Experiential models of learning that use multi-modal techniques, do so for a very particular reason. An example of this would be 'How To Tie a Shoelace'...(Tech. Writing is an example of this - words& pictures)...'experiencers' regularly stumble and gaffe with text alone (for very particular reasons), and can fail to follow instructions written in the plainest of English - the reasons for this are contained within the reams of written material that explains why, and you will hardly ever find an 'instructional' that does not include a commensurately considered visual to support it (Ikea construction manuals come to mind).

The bible (as a narrative, or, as an 'instructional') is beholden to the same seminal problem as a shoelace-tying, text based instructional...it has no 'pictures', so an 'exercise' using a picture to explain how text is interpreted, is duplicitous or just plain ignorant.

Å99



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: akushla99

Narrative Text or any literary text, when read creates pictures in the readers mind. However, one could create the wrong picture if they do not study in a way to draw out of the text (the minds picture of what is read) the truth that is applicable to the reader today.

What picture and applicable conclusion do you get when readying Mal 4:4


Mal 4:4 ¶ Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.



edit on 24-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: akushla99

Narrative Text or any literary text, when read creates pictures in the readers mind. However, one could create the wrong picture if they do not study in a way to draw out of the text (the minds picture of what is read) the truth that is applicable to the reader today.

What picture and applicable conclusion do you get when readying Mal 4:4


Mal 4:4 ¶ Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.




What picture and applicable conclusion do you get when reading what I have posted about visual and text based comprehension models?

Å99



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: akushla99

you first my friend.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: akushla99

you first my friend.


You posited a flawed analogy. I was quick to point it out. You'll need to resolve the 'image' that it presents first...friend...

Å99




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