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The Apostle Paul, A Man Used of God

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posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Circumcision was not mentioned in the letter. He was right, Paul never delivers the message. He only says something about the poor. Stop pretending you know what you're talking about, you don't. You are bouncing around the topic and added that 5th suggestion Why do Paul lovers lie so much?
edit on 23-1-2016 by 33Iam666 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: 33Iam666
a reply to: chr0naut

Circumcision was not mentioned in the letter. He was right, Paul never delivers the message. He only says something about the poor. Stop pretending you know what you're talking about, you don't. You are bouncing around the topic and added that 5th suggestion Why do Paul lovers lie so much?


If you read from Acts 15: 1 you will see that a delegation including Paul and Barnabas were sent from the church at Antioch to Jerusalem, to resolve the specific issue of gentile circumcision.

In Acts 15: 7-11 Peter argues that circumcision is immaterial in Christ and that circumcision is an "unfair burden" to place upon gentile converts.

After Peter's speech, James agrees with him, using the words "we shouldn’t create problems for Gentiles" in echo of Peter's comment (Acts 15:19) and then proposes that they write the letter as authentication of the vote of the council.

Although circumcision is not specifically itemized as a point in the letter, it was clearly its main purpose! The itemized points being the only exceptions to the general rule that gentiles are not to mandated to fulfill Jewish customs - specifically circumcision.

If you read the section/s in context instead of cherry picking verses (verse divisions were added to the original text very much later), you might have a clearer idea.


edit on 23/1/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: 33Iam666
a reply to: ChesterJohnThat's a lie. Your being like Paul. Don't tell lies because you don't like the facts. This is my first day on this website. Fact.



You may be someone different, but gnosisfaith, essene616 and yourself all appear to use the same wording, the same arguments (with, it seems, identical "cut and paste" responses) and you have a similar 'style' of expressing yourself.

Essene616 has admitted to using the same device (therefore the same IP) to post from as gnosisfaith.

All up, it looks suspiciously like one person with multiple "handles" posting corroboratively, and which is clearly against the terms and conditions of ATS.

I may be wrong and if so, I apologize.




posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 11:50 PM
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Jesus not good enough that you guys need to argue about Paul?

Paul was probably not even a real person anyway, but made up by the Romans who found the rebellious christians a problem. So they made up a 13th apostle who would preach obedience to government is obedience to christ. And just to piss off the jews they made him a Pharisee. I don't understand why Jesus would choose a new apostle after he died. It's not logical at all. And to base 2/3 of the nt on this guy is wierd too. I prefer the gospels and the NHL apostolic gospels. It's like Hitler said, the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 11:51 PM
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So many religions how or why would God make life a gamble? He is not evil were he would send good atheist to hell, and bad Christians to heaven. The Collective conscience of the world needs thorazine.
edit on 23-1-2016 by 369elyon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 01:24 AM
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originally posted by: 369elyon
Jesus not good enough that you guys need to argue about Paul?

Paul was probably not even a real person anyway, but made up by the Romans who found the rebellious christians a problem. So they made up a 13th apostle who would preach obedience to government is obedience to christ. And just to piss off the jews they made him a Pharisee. I don't understand why Jesus would choose a new apostle after he died. It's not logical at all. And to base 2/3 of the nt on this guy is wierd too. I prefer the gospels and the NHL apostolic gospels. It's like Hitler said, the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.


If they made Paul up to control them pesky Christians, why did they kill him (by beheading him at Aquae Salviae, about three miles from Rome, on February 22, AD 65. It wasn't by Nero's order, but by the prefects of Rome, in Nero's absence. Also, while Peter was crucified upside down, Paul could not be because he was a Roman citizen).

You see, it wasn't until @ 400 years later that the Roman Empire accepted Christianity and therefore dictated things of the church.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 01:38 AM
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originally posted by: 369elyon
So many religions how or why would God make life a gamble? He is not evil were he would send good atheist to hell, and bad Christians to heaven. The Collective conscience of the world needs thorazine.


Firstly, I doubt that life is a gamble for God, but it does seem that He has created a universe which forces us into making decisions, with insufficient data and few obvious guiding principles.

Perhaps God has a purpose that required a universe where there is variability rather than uniformity. He could, if He wanted, have created a universe made entirely of Hydrogen. It wouldn't be much of a universe, though, would it?

God also is not evil, but neither should He be bound by our moral rules. God's rules would be higher and absolute. The issue is not of preventing good atheists from heaven, but allowing good Christians there as well. Neither are 'good' by God's standard (and we know because He tells us).



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 02:53 AM
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a reply to: 369elyon

Have you guys heard of Bernard Schnitzel?

Probably not, as he was was on the boards way before yesterday.




posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 03:07 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut
I think the person being banned recently may be Australian.
The theory is time-zone based; he said "this is my first day" at a time when that would only have been true just west of the Dateline.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 03:27 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: 369elyon
Jesus not good enough that you guys need to argue about Paul?

Paul was probably not even a real person anyway, but made up by the Romans who found the rebellious christians a problem. So they made up a 13th apostle who would preach obedience to government is obedience to christ. And just to piss off the jews they made him a Pharisee. I don't understand why Jesus would choose a new apostle after he died. It's not logical at all. And to base 2/3 of the nt on this guy is wierd too. I prefer the gospels and the NHL apostolic gospels. It's like Hitler said, the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.


If they made Paul up to control them pesky Christians, why did they kill him (by beheading him at Aquae Salviae, about three miles from Rome, on February 22, AD 65. It wasn't by Nero's order, but by the prefects of Rome, in Nero's absence. Also, while Peter was crucified upside down, Paul could not be because he was a Roman citizen).

You see, it wasn't until @ 400 years later that the Roman Empire accepted Christianity and therefore dictated things of the church.



That's only a theory... from quite a while after Pauls "disappearance"


edit on 24-1-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: 369elyon

Gnosisisfaith, that was your name earlier this month, then Essesnce161, then 33Iam666, and today you are 369elyon.

How long do you think you can keep this up?



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: 369elyon

God is not making any gambles Gnosisisfaith, but the Devil wishing to send men's souls to hell does create a myriad of religions to confuse men and lead them astray.

Just like you making a myriad of User accounts trying to deceive ATS staff, moderators and its members. But we can discern quite well who you are.
edit on 24-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: chr0naut
I think the person being banned recently may be Australian.
The theory is time-zone based; he said "this is my first day" at a time when that would only have been true just west of the Dateline.



Perhaps they may also have been from New Zealand or a Pacific island as we are even closer to the International Date Line.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

you weren't wrong his newest handle was 369elyon



posted on Jan, 25 2016 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: Akragon





The point is this thread is not supposed to be against him... OF course there's nothing wrong with being against him or debating your points


Ak, you've been around here long enough, as CHester keeps proclaiming "context is everything"
Lets look at key points in the Opening Salvo in Defence of Paul.

As I see it 33Iam666 has been right on topic - where do you get the idea that threads on ATS are only about "preaching to the faithful", "no contrary opinion will be entered into"?

From ChesterJohns OP


Lately there have been many who claim Paul is a Liar, and agent of Satan to lead men away from Jesus. Nothing could be further form the truth.






Truly Paul was a man used of God.

May God bless you in the study of his word





They will defend themselves by saying Paul is a liar, false apostle, they will claim parts of the Bible are in error even though God Promised to preserve his words to this generation and forever



posted on Jan, 25 2016 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut



on February 22, AD 65.


Where do you get such a date?

www.biblestudy.org...



QUESTION: How did the apostle Paul die? When was apostle Paul's death? Did he die in Rome?
ANSWER: The Bible does not tell us the exact time or manner of the apostle Paul's death, and secular history has yet to provide us with any definitive information. However, evidence highly suggests the apostle Paul's death occurred after his fifth missionary journey ended in 67 A.D. Paul was likely beheaded by the Romans, under Emperor Nero, sometime around May or June of 68 A.D. Nero himself died by suicide on June 9th of the same year.

Christian tradition also has Paul being beheaded in Rome around the mid 60s A.D. during the reign of Nero. Most Bible dictionaries and some commentaries can give us details on the traditions surrounding Paul's death.






until @ 400 years later that the Roman Empire accepted Christianity and therefore dictated things of the church


400 years later? If you say so

www.atlantaserbs.com...



The first Christian Church was founded in 33AD in Jerusalem immediately following the Resurrection and Ascension of Christ. According to the text of the Acts of the Apostles, the Lord appeared bodily to His disciples, after His passion, being visible to them for forty days, strengthening their faith and preaching to them about the Kingdom of God, while at the same time He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem but to wait for the descent of the Holy Spirit



posted on Jan, 25 2016 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: 33Iam666
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Romans 3:7 " But if through my FALSEHOODS God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I being condemned as a sinner?

The thread Is about Paul being a liar, and he just admitted indeed that he is. He thinks God is glorified by lies.

He is mistaken, lies are deception, and wrong.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Here we have a person, who with one verse thinks they prove that Paul has lied. But let's put the verse in Context and observe the text and see if indeed Paul did lie.

Romans 3:1 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) [Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The context shows that he is using a figure of speech known as a hyperboli. He is not saying he actually lied. the lie he speaks of is Something others are saying about his teaching. But what is the lie they are accusing Paul of in verse 7. That he was teaching to do evil, that good may come.

Paul was not teaching that one should or could continue in sin after Salvation. He knew that in this age under his dispensation of the grace of God given him, that a person is saved through faith, not of works lest they would have reason to boast before God. Paul never condoned sin in a Christians life. But he knew they would still struggled for even he struggled with his old nature.

Romans 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

He was teaching that Christ was the sacrifice that forgives men's sin and sets them free from sin and death and they need not do more than live through their faith by the Holy Ghost (in the the Spirit)

Paul never lied, they lie they promoted and attributed to Paul was one of the Gnostic view that one could continue in a sinful life after salvation. But Paul never taught that. He taught that those who believed in Christ should walk in the Spirit and if they did they would not sin. Paul is not admitting to lie, he is just telling us that how is it that God is using a lie to save if he was lying. There is no admition to lying by Paul and the context is clear.

The liar here is the one who posted that Paul had lied when he had not. He was dishonest with the word of God by taking a verse from its context and put his opinion on it to make it say what he wanted it to say. This is what false teachers and cults do to draw diciples after their own selves.

edit on 25-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2016 @ 11:53 AM
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12 is the number attributed to Israel.

When Paul was called by Christ Jesus on his way to wreak more havoc of the church (exclusive of only Jews at that time). He was done so to send him out tot he Gentiles. He Saw the Lord Jesus, he was taught by the Lord Jesus, he was sent by the Lord Jesus, he had signs a wonder accompany the Gospel of the Grace of God as proof that the message of Gospel of the grace of God was approved of by our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.


edit on 25-1-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2016 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight


Ak, you've been around here long enough, as CHester keeps proclaiming "context is everything"
Lets look at key points in the Opening Salvo in Defence of Paul.

As I see it 33Iam666 has been right on topic - where do you get the idea that threads on ATS are only about "preaching to the faithful", "no contrary opinion will be entered into"?


In any case it doesn't matter now... said person is gone... but probably not for good...

I don't care if people debate against Paul, im not his biggest fan either.... what I was trying to say to this person is that IF one creates their own thread... they have the opportunity to defend and state their position so that everyone that enters the thread can read it instead of digging 10 pages into the thread to find it

It only makes sense... especially since this person is so passionate about his POV




posted on Jan, 28 2016 @ 06:36 PM
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From a Gnostic point of view Paul was someone who was purposefully trying to corrupt the teachings of Jesus that are Gnostic in origin. Just playing the devil's advocate here.



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