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Let’s look at the Worlds Socialists countries

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posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:22 PM
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By reading this thread it seems the greatest confusion comes from the wildly differing definitions of "Socialism" each individual is using to base their argument.




posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: Leonidas

Well kind of.

There's a lot of misunderstanding on what socialism really is.

Could you define what a means of exchange is in the context of socialism?



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


But....balance that out against our standard of living and quality of life, and it all becomes relative again. We weathered the last recession better that the US because those damaging banking/mortgage practices that threw people out of their homes there...were illegal here. Those medical payments that put people into bankruptcy there, do not occur here. Ask any Canadian...wanna swap?


If an American were to put money away on a monthly basis in case of medical emergency, he probably wouldn't go bankrupt, and if he didn't end up having any medical emergencies, he would still have his own money. It's essentially the same thing as paying income taxes, except a Canadian cannot choose to opt out, whereas an American can.

It's not the healthcare system of America that causes people to go bankrupt. It's the lack of financial and budgeting knowledge of individuals causing people to go bankrupt.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: MystikMushroom

How about you Socialists move to one of the numerous countries listed and I will stay? Seriously, there aren't many places left to go for people that just want to breathe without some overbearing government taxing the air.


The fact that Obama got elected twice, and the Democrats will win another POTUS election means you are in the minority.
Bush won twice.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: TheTory
Even without the cancer, you'd still be out of a substantial amount of money. On the surface, sure, it sounds cheap, but in reality, it isn't.

Only is you disregard every scrap of empirical data.

Doesn't matter if you pay the bulk via taxes or straight out of pocket, the total cost has always been higher for the privatized systems over the single payer systems.

Which makes this even more ironic. A capitalist nation...nay, THE capitalist nation, is not employing the most cost effective method of production! No corporation would have ever allowed this to occur if they were running the show, lol.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: Leonidas

I understand the confusion but the left likes to change its appearance when people catch on to its true aims and they redefine themselves and their policies to appear as something everyone should be in favor of. Like this recent buzz around democratic socialism. That is a bit of an oxymoron. The democracy socialist speak of is that which favors its policies. Attempt to assert more for the individual or to weaken the state in any way and see how in favor of democracy they are.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: peck420




Only is you disregard every scrap of empirical data.

Doesn't matter if you pay the bulk via taxes or straight out of pocket, the total cost has always been higher for the privatized systems over the single payer systems.

Which makes this even more ironic. A capitalist nation...nay, THE capitalist nation, is not employing the most cost effective method of production! No corporation would have ever allowed this to occur if they were running the show, lol.


That's probably true, though I haven't seen the data myself. I can agree that if one wants cheap healthcare, the UH system is a good way to go about finding it. Some people, however, require quality healthcare, as opposed to cheap.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

Right dude there's no way I could have saved up 40,000 for the medical emergency I had at 24 when I got crushed between two cars.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Leonidas

Interesting because to my knowledge those constitutions are subservient to the rules and regulations of the socialist EU.


Well Canada, which has been "outed" as Socialist, for example, has the "Charter of Rights and Freedoms"

The first two items read: (just the first two, for example)

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
Fundamental Freedoms

Fundamental freedoms

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Freedom of the individual is not a uniquely American idea, it appears "Socialist" Canada has that enshrined in it's Constitution as well.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: onequestion




Right dude there's no way I could have saved up 40,000 for the medical emergency I had at 24 when I got crushed between two cars.


Yes, sometimes it's nice to expect others to do it for you.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: Leonidas

The Queen's role in Canada


The Queen personifies the state and is the personal symbol of allegiance, unity and authority for all Canadians. Legislators, ministers, public services and members of the military and police all swear allegiance to The Queen. It is for this reason that all new Canadian citizens swear allegiance to The Queen of Canada. Elections are called and laws are promulgated in The Queen's name. The Queen is represented in Canada on a day-to-day basis by a Governor General at the federal level and by a Lieutenant Governor in each of the ten provinces. The Governor General is appointed by The Queen upon the recommendation of the Prime Minister of Canada while the Lieutenant Governors are appointed by the Governor General upon the recommendation of the Prime Minister.


How can you have rights but have to swear allegiance to the powers of someone else? She hasn't but she could take your rights away in a legal sense. It wouldn't be popular or realistic but don't fool yourself. Its why in America oaths are pledged to the constitution.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Open_Minded Skeptic

Perfect. Close the thread on this post alone.

Nothing else needs to be said.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

The Queen is notorious for coming by unannounced and rummaging through people's fridges. She can be a real nuisance, a real fiend for leftovers.

Since the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the Constitution gives Canadians the right to Denounce the Queen without repercussion and "... Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law..." is in the Preamble she is the definition of "Figurehead".

In a "Constitutional Monarchy" like Canada, the Constitution comes first and in the Constitution the Charter of Rights and Freedoms supersedes everything else, so your point does not stand.

But that is beside the point of Socialism and Individual Freedoms...Canada (according to the definition of Socialism being used) has both.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

What?

You must be a comedian.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Willtell
China


In China the government manages and controls the economy. Many of the domestic companies are owned and run by the government. Recently, the Chinese economy has become more geared towards capitalism, but is still officially socialist. Life in China remains relatively less stressful and more relaxed than life in capitalist countries like America

blog.peerform.com...

Pretty good running countries as far as I could see
Socialism isn't the big ogre we have been told.


What a great example! They only killed 20 million peasants to get there. The Soviet Union? 10 million. When you run a totalitarian state, you can do anything! The more socialist a country is, the more totalitarian they are.

So move there. And enjoy!


Well Canada killed a lot of native Americans.

I don't know how many people the sweeds have killed.

Belgium worked to death 10 million Africans in the Congo

so what's your point?

Human beings suck

No, socialism sucks. His post and data it contains are simple and obvious. Your examples couldn't possibly be more unrelated to the topic.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Americans are used to being told their the best. America went to the Moon. America wins more Olympic medals than anyone. America wins everything, invents everything, creates everything ...

That's the problem...Americans aren't used to learning from other countries. The world is a huge place, and sometimes -- just sometimes, people in other places on Earth are going to have a good idea or two.

It's not un-American or something to learn from other countries. Sheesh.


lol, we learn from other countries all the time. Don't do the communism. Don't do the socialism. Don't do the colonization. Don't take all the property from the achievers and give it to the incompetent. Don't start wars that obliterate your country. Don't let muslims invade and overrun your country. We learn quite nicely from the foolishness all across the globe. It's how we remain # 1, and the only country that will continually help everyone out of their messes, and not lay claim to the smoldering ruins as we leave.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TheTory

Right dude there's no way I could have saved up 40,000 for the medical emergency I had at 24 when I got crushed between two cars.

No one should have to become another Venezuela because you had an accident. One person's anecdotes don't drive the need for 350 million people to commit social and economic suicide.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: amazing




Then some of you say no socialism, but what do you mean? No healthcare for the homeless person having a heart attack on the street? No public education?


It means No to social or state ownership over the means of production. Government services are not "socialist". Compulsory education is not "socialist". Compulsory education has been around before socialism was even conceived. Paying taxes for government services has been around before socialism has been conceived. Same with the military. It's simply false that these notions would be considered socialist.


And you and I both know that, but when you're talking about Bernie Sanders or Socialism, the political/media/ATS debate says that all of those things are socialism. Public healthcare and education and infrastructure repair, paid maternity leave, a 40 hour work week...these are the socialism/Sanders debate points, but...you hit the nail on the head.

On more thing, without running away to wikipedia, none of us really knows what social or state ownership over the means of production even means. That's not even part of the debate...no one is even talking about that politically ta the moment. LOL
edit on 20-1-2016 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Americans are used to being told their the best. America went to the Moon. America wins more Olympic medals than anyone. America wins everything, invents everything, creates everything ...

That's the problem...Americans aren't used to learning from other countries. The world is a huge place, and sometimes -- just sometimes, people in other places on Earth are going to have a good idea or two.

It's not un-American or something to learn from other countries. Sheesh.


lol, we learn from other countries all the time. Don't do the communism. Don't do the socialism. Don't do the colonization. Don't take all the property from the achievers and give it to the incompetent. Don't start wars that obliterate your country. Don't let muslims invade and overrun your country. We learn quite nicely from the foolishness all across the globe. It's how we remain # 1, and the only country that will continually help everyone out of their messes, and not lay claim to the smoldering ruins as we leave.


Remain number 1 ? At what?!

Only thing the US is number one in is military, debt and prison population!

Your not number one in freedom any more, nor standard of living or education or healthcare ect

And only country thats helps out of messes? Again yanky doodle bull#. UK was by your side through out WW2 in equal numbers, it was with you in Korea and the cold war, in Iraq1 and 2 , Afghanistan and in Syria.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TheTory

Right dude there's no way I could have saved up 40,000 for the medical emergency I had at 24 when I got crushed between two cars.

No one should have to become another Venezuela because you had an accident. One person's anecdotes don't drive the need for 350 million people to commit social and economic suicide.


You would leave such people to die?

In a accident and cant aftord the treatment? Toss them out to die?

Many countrys have working health systems that provide for all without it being "Venezuela ".
edit on 20-1-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



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