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19.6 Trillion Dollars in Tax Increases...Can you feel the "Bern" now?

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posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: luthier


We have attended several lectures from research schools who say creative critical thinking is almost gone. People are youtubing everything and not learning how to critically think through problems. Which is making big problems finding lab workers with critical thinking skills.

That's exactly my point.

Do you, for some reason, think I'm arguing against your point?
I actually agree with you. Just in case you were feeling defensive - there's no reason for it.
I'm on your side in this.


I thought you were saying millenials are not consumed by their devices. The lack of critical thinking would indicate they can be manipulated easier. They may have feelings something is wrong but they don't have the ability to come up with an alternative solution or define where and how to fix the problem.




posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: luthier

My two "Millennials" do, though.

They have good critical thinking skills. They know exactly what is wrong. They are coming up with solutions......and very able to imagine them.

It's all about education.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
The U.S Needs MASSIVE de-rugulation in many sectors, massive tax cuts, massive job growth, massive Immigration overhaul, BASELINE auditing of Federal Agencies, and to maintain a HIGHER interest rate in the middle somewhere.
We cannot do a Socialist approach now. We need a Free Market Nuclear BOMB or else we're screwed for decades more


De-regulation and Tax Cuts got us to where we are now. Immigration reform and the tax system DOES need an overhaul to make it simpler with less loopholes. Bringing it back to ground zero would be a good start. It's not the poor people or middle class that got it to where it's at now, that's for sure. Regulation of industry is NOT socialism. A government's job is to ensure the ability of it's citizens to pursue life and liberty. This includes holding accountable entities responsible for threatening that very life and liberty. In some cases, it should take over those entities to achieve it's goal when they have stepped so far out of bounds. We haven't had ANY of that happen. THAT is socialism. In cases where the government CAN create jobs to fill a need, it SHOULD. Again, THAT is not socialism.

And you sling around socialism like it's associated with genocide or terrorism. TrueBrit has the concept of true socialism, but if you're not a fan of socialism, then maybe you should get rid of road repairs and public schooling, and fire departments, and many other forms of "socialism".

True socialism is government control of the means of production for an industry. Frankly, we could use a little socialism. Privatizing anything that has to do with human suffering like prisons, healthcare, or law enforcement is just asking for problems. Just like when you gauge how successful your law enforcement is based on arrest numbers and not actual crime figures.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: luthier

My two "Millennials" do, though.

They have good critical thinking skills. They know exactly what is wrong. They are coming up with solutions......and very able to imagine them.

It's all about education.


Mine too. I also teach kids wrestling and judo after school. It's an exception though for kids today. It takes very dedicated parents to combat all the electronics. My son didn't get a phone until 13 when he started going out with friends by himself. It's a flip phone. He is an exception among most of his peers. Most kids are FB and tweeting instagraming etc constantly. It's a big problem in schools.

You can't assume because your kids are well educated everyone else's are. There have been plenty of studies showing differently and my example of the lack of good researchers in universities is a prime example.

My kids started getting ethics and philosophy early since I am not religious. Kant can teach just as much about ethics as a bible.

My point is we need leaders probably more than someone telling us they have legislative plans. Someone wise enough to know how to move people to a better understanding of what's going on without shouting overly opinionated partisan politics.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: grahag

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
The U.S Needs MASSIVE de-rugulation in many sectors, massive tax cuts, massive job growth, massive Immigration overhaul, BASELINE auditing of Federal Agencies, and to maintain a HIGHER interest rate in the middle somewhere.
We cannot do a Socialist approach now. We need a Free Market Nuclear BOMB or else we're screwed for decades more


De-regulation and Tax Cuts got us to where we are now. Immigration reform and the tax system DOES need an overhaul to make it simpler with less loopholes. Bringing it back to ground zero would be a good start. It's not the poor people or middle class that got it to where it's at now, that's for sure. Regulation of industry is NOT socialism. A government's job is to ensure the ability of it's citizens to pursue life and liberty. This includes holding accountable entities responsible for threatening that very life and liberty. In some cases, it should take over those entities to achieve it's goal when they have stepped so far out of bounds. We haven't had ANY of that happen. THAT is socialism. In cases where the government CAN create jobs to fill a need, it SHOULD. Again, THAT is not socialism.

And you sling around socialism like it's associated with genocide or terrorism. TrueBrit has the concept of true socialism, but if you're not a fan of socialism, then maybe you should get rid of road repairs and public schooling, and fire departments, and many other forms of "socialism".

True socialism is government control of the means of production for an industry. Frankly, we could use a little socialism. Privatizing anything that has to do with human suffering like prisons, healthcare, or law enforcement is just asking for problems. Just like when you gauge how successful your law enforcement is based on arrest numbers and not actual crime figures.


Nicely said.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: luthier

yeah, my kids didn't have TVs in their rooms, either. They were taught life skills like cooking and budgeting and laundry and fiscal responsibility...

Sad there are so few of us, I guess.

Trust me, I understand. My daughter went to a spendy private university (on a scholarship earned by her extraordinary performance in a Public School District) with Blue-Blood trust-fund babies who had to be told to put their stupid cell-phones down when someone is talking to them face-to-face. The "rents" (as they so adorably referred to their cash-cow parents) were almost as bad...I tell ya. It was shameful.


I get what you're saying, I really do.

Anyway, my brain is addled right now.
Have a good night.
Please know that I'm on your side...mkay?



edit on 1/21/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Sounds awesome... :-P

Did you let your kids BE kids? "Hey, I know you're only 5 but you need to learn about revolving credit balances and what compounding interest is..."

I had a pretty darn strict upbringing but I had an old huge clunky 13" TV in my room once I was about 11 or so for an original Nintendo. My parents actually regulated how much/little I played it. Pretty easy to just take the games away when I was in trouble too. You can't really play a Nintendo without any games.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's no problem. Friends debate all the time. I just want to make an effort to bring out the need we all find some common ground. My only purpose to speak up about pual is that he is fairly reasonable for a politician. He doesn't get it all right by any means but compare him to trump. He just came out and said how rediculous the other candidates were for saying they would tear up the Iran deal. That diplomacy is never bad and look we got some people back because of it. I think he would be a reasonable person to debate with. Even when if he is often wrong. I would rather have his point of view heard than many so called conservatives.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom


Did you let your kids BE kids? "Hey, I know you're only 5 but you need to learn about revolving credit balances and what compounding interest is..."


Yes - my kids played outside - like kids do. Without mom standing there or hovering. They didn't get enrolled in classes or team sports.... or handed over to "experts" - not even when we went on ski trips together, which happened every other year, instead of birthday and Christmas presents/toys, we pooled the money and went on trips together (my own brother said "enroll them in ski-school!") - I taught them myself, because I knew how.

One of my good friends and her husband owned a restaurant, they were chefs.....but they enrolled their kid (the same age as my youngest) in a Cooking Class....
WTF???

When my kids were very small (preschoolers), I had them help me pay the bills....write out the checks, do the math, etc.
When they were older and complained that I was going to trade in our nice Grand Cherokee for a less-valuable car (and get cash back plus the vehicle), I made a pie-chart for them to understand how much money was coming in and how much was going out.

I also set them up savings accounts and put all "cash" gifts into it.
When they turned 16 and 18, I cashed those out and said: "Here. These are your savings. Make it last."

Anyway - I have lots of other stories about teaching my kids "life-skills" - and how their peers admired their 'acumen' ---------
but, whatever.

Good night.



edit on 1/21/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: grey580

What the hell are you gonna rob from the poor? You gonna take back your handout that you gave them?


A highschool graduate used to be able to afford a stay at home wife, large suburban house, car, with multiple appliances, multiple kids, vacation, retirement. What's actually paid to those at the bottom, has not stayed the same through time, it has actually diminished through inflation, the difference going to those at the top. The minimum wage started as a LIVING WAGE, that's the reality.

Handouts are needed, and corporations like walmart teach you how to request it, because their salaries are insufficient to survive with them, yes basic survival, even with full time employment.


I don't think you can claim robbing someone for having bad credit. That's just what you get when you fall behind. I'm a middle class worker and my ex let a car and a house get repossessed that was in my name. That was in 2005 and I'm STILL paying for it. That's not my fault, but that's how it goes when a person has bad credit. That's not exploiting, that's just being untrustworthy of a client that has obviously let bills slip by for a long time. I don't trust the feds though.

First just because you find someone untrustworthy doesn't give you the right for exploitative deals, deals that they're most likely forced to take due to the pathetic wages, and wagetheft, that has gone on.

Second they lower your credit score not just for being late on payments, even if you pay on time, if you decide to actually take your credit card balance to its available limit, they will also lower your credit score... you paying on time and all, it won't stop them from exploiting you, just because you used the credit they gave you.


So what you are telling me is that it's easier for you to blame the system than it is to come up with a solution? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I came from nothing, and I found a niche to make money to create something. Perhaps you should consider these options.

Now imagine that niche oversaturated with people with the same idea, try making money then.

The reason people with skills can earn more money, is that their skills are hard to replace, the reason why a burger flipper is worth little is that they're easily replaceable. If everyone had extreme skills with regards to the best paying positions, they'd have to take either lower positions, be unemployed, or through competition drive wages for those jobs way down.



Ask some former Cubans too!

Ask some North Koreans that actually made it OUT.

Ask some child mine worker who got cancer with unfettered capitalism if they enjoyed it?

Ask another worker who lost limbs or eyesight due to unfettered capitalism if they enjoyed it?

Ask those old citizens or those with disabilities who couldn't work, and had no social security or medicare how they enjoyed it with unfettered capitalism?

Heck ask the sweatshop virtual slaves over at china, jumping from the roof of their factory buildings trying to commit suicide how they enjoy modern capitalism?

Oh, and the best part of capitalism are yet to come, it takes a while for it to kick in. When they repeal the estate tax, and wealth concentrates such that a few families have more wealth than 99.99% of the population combined. That's when the fun starts, humans have created currency and markets in the past(even here in america the natives had forms of currency, iirc), it doesn't take long for nobles and royalty to emerge out of that.

Did you also know that 1% gives 33% of ALL donations in the US?

Didn't the less than 0.1% aka 62 richest individuals, many of them american, actually have wealth equivalent to 50% of the population?


“The richest 1% now have more wealth than the rest of the world combined.- news about a report, titled “An Economy for the 1%,” highlighting global inequality “reaching new extremes.”globalresearch.ca

That's likely not too different with regards to the U.S 1%. Probably as much wealth as 99% of the population combined, and without having to struggle to survive like 50% of the population. That 33% is also skewed by exceptional cases of very high donations like that of Bill Gates.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: eXia7

go to work where exactly?

Anywhere. Cut a lawn, dig a ditch, open a lemonade stand. Better than sitting on your ass sucking off the teet of the working Americans. And besides...who gave the unemployed not only this economy (and for god's sake...its been 8 years) but fed their addiction to poverty and laziness? Who is trying to build a country of poor minorities who would rather forget freedom or free-will and would rather suckle off mommy-government until the livestock are no longer needed.


How about sucking mommy investments, off the back of the wagetheft of working americans. For most work is a requirement for survival, but for others, a small minority, work is optional. And what little work they do, is rewarded whether they do it well or not, if they fail there's a golden parachute for you*(though if they fail it may cost thousands or tens of thousands of employees their jobs for no fault of their own.).



posted on Jan, 23 2016 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

I remember I was on vacation once several years ago, there was a doctor at the resort we were staying at, he was from Canada, we got to talking and at some point we started talking about health care, he told me the health care was very good in Canada, but the tax rate was something like over 50 percent. I know when the socialists took over in France a few years ago, it was higher than that. So we will get our perks, but people are delusional if they don't think it won't come at a high price. There is NO free lunch.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: openminded2011

Bernie Sanders will bring down our economy with his brand of socialism. Robin Hood is a nice legend but it doesn't work in the real world. His policies will do just the opposite of what he intends. The very elements of society he wants to help will suffer the most in the end as a result of his attempts to redistribute income, because when corporate America can't invest and suffers reduced earnings, the companies will cut back and lay off the very folks Bernie thinks he'll be helping along. Likewise with the small business men who also do the hiring. Ultimately there will be less tax revenues to operate the government and not nearly enough funds to pay for all of Bernie's proposed increased welfare programs and expanded health insurance. There are no free lunches. The stock market will plunge and a deep recession or worse will result.



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 04:42 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs
As someone who currently owes the IRS a thousand dollars, MORE taxes don't sound very good to me. If you ask me, we pay TOO MUCH tax already.



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: Daedalus

More taxes against corporate America and more regulation and more taxes against small business in order to massively expand social and environmental/climate programs will cause corporate earnings to plummet and massive lay offs and unemployment. Ultimately a serious recession or worse will result. That, in a nutshell, is Bernie Sanders Socialism. It might work in England ,France, or Sweden, but it simply won't and can't work here. It just can't be allowed to happen. This fellow will also slap a transaction fee on Wall Street, and lift the income tax ceiling to nearly 90 percent. Capital gains taxes will double and the 401K retirement plans of millions of Americans would suffer. Doesn't Mr. Sanders realize that you can't punish success and decapitate the folks who do the hiring without also hurting the folks who would be hired or the folks who would be fired?? Its a matter of simple economics. And you can forget bolstering the military as well since there would be no funding left to protect our troops or to provide them what they need in to survive on the battlefield.



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: kendix1960

Um... What does any of that have to do with what i said?



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

What is to be expected from a moron?



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: eXia7

Your country, and your countrymen would not know socialism if it jumped up and kicked them in the throat.

Even your political left is right wing when compared to genuine socialist ideals and policy. If "The Bern" were a socialist, he would be insisting that healthcare be free at the point of issue, and paid for via taxation, like a sensible nation might do. Of course, the US is so incredibly right wing, that even what passes for the left there cannot get such a measure passed.

I would throw the most leftist of your politicians out of any socialist organisation in my country. And before anyone gets down my neck, talking about how different our nations are... Let's get something straight. Just because some nations do not understand terminology correctly, does not change the meaning of that terminology. Since the left and right paradigm was invented in, and codified in Europe, no one over the other side of the damned pond has any business redrawing the lines in the sand which define the two opposing sides. And take it from someone who lives in the EU... You haven't any socialism now, you never have had.


Actually our political right is left wing. Left wing uses the gov to solve problems that society would solve in a strong normal economy.

Both sides do that. Neither side has reduced the size or cost of gov since WW2, the war to make the world safe for socialism.
edit on 29-1-2016 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

The labels just don't matter. Left wing, right wing etc. isn't where it's at. What Sanders proposes, no matter what you wish to call it, will bankrupt America and cause a depression. Higher taxes without a ceiling and massive spending combined with too much regulation would bring down Wall Street, cripple small business, and result in more unemployment. The very people Sanders wants to help would be the ones who would be hurt the most.



posted on Jan, 29 2016 @ 07:01 PM
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I don't think that Bernie himself thinks he can win the nomination so why not just reach for the moon in his platform.. but wait, now he's gaining and pulling even and perhaps his tax plan is going to be his demise after all. In an election yr. with so much on the line, the Dems want to RAISE TAXES and are boldly proclaiming it as part of their planks. It doesn't seem that they actually want the prize because it's usually the kiss of death to mention raising taxes.

Remember Bush 1 "Read my lips... no new taxes", which he promptly abandoned and shortly after that, abandoned the white house.

Bernie appeals to the same starry eyed young voters who were behind Obama, maybe not the same ones, but voters just like them. They have no earthly idea that that weight will be on them until they do, and then its 'Oh wait", just like it has been with Obama.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: Parralaxview

Heaven help us if this avowed socialist gets the democratic party nomination and then actually wins the election. But Hillary would mean four more years of Obama and Trump would mean ultra right wing fascism.




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