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19.6 Trillion Dollars in Tax Increases...Can you feel the "Bern" now?

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posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs

As much as I like Bernie, this is where the whole thing just falls down isn't it?

There's no way, Congress or the American people would ever approve that much new spending.

Ever.

It's just a no go. Do not collect 200$, go straight to lame duck presidency. The Clinton Campaign is going to have a field day with those stats.

~Tenth




posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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rob from the rich to give away free things.
a reply to: matafuchs

But it's ok for the Rich to rob from the poor and the fed?



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Well I don't really know what else you can call it.

Take from 1 group to support another group, and in this case it happens to be freeloaders.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: matafuchs

This sounds like the same one sided argument I hear coming from Hillary when she attacks Sanders saying he'll raise taxes on middle-income Americans, without one mention of how much they'll actually be saving because he'll also eliminate their private healthcare insurance premiums and deductibles.

If we're currently spending 1.3 trillion annually on healthcare through our private insurers, (while leaving 20 million uninsured) that's 13 trillion over ten years that we won't be spending under Bernie's plan right there.

Not to mention, Bernie's plan will cover everyone.

Yeah, some loopholes will go away and some taxes will go up under Bernie's plan but IMO, to only mention the increases without any considerations of savings in other areas, is disingenuous to say the least.


In the debate, he said he'd tax the middle class a little more, but that he'd lower their premiums a little for health insurance. He claims that while we may be taxed more, we'll save on our health insurance premiums. So while it's already not affordable now, it still won't be affordable after we're taxed more. How silly.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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When Sanders wrote that women fantasize about being Gang-Raped...who knew he was speaking metaphorically about taxes?



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: eXia7

go to work where exactly?


Think outside the box.

I did.

And yes, I did see your video from the other thread, and agree with that video. But there are still ways.


I think that there is a lot more then think outside the box needed. I never seen a plan that actually works for people especially returning veterans and in debted students. For example it requires lots of support and resources to up and move like everyone suggests if work isn't available in an area, how about starting from the bottom for $9.75 an hour lol, poppycock. I like that returning vets that joined after high school at 17 come home after multiple tours of war and all they have for their resume is High School and professional war fighter, thats a winning resume. I used my GI Bill just so I didn't have to be homeless anymore. Think outside the box bah, thinking outside the box only helped on day to day struggles like showers and food, it doesn't change a system that is set up to make the poor and less fortunate succeed in not only surviving but also quality of life. I suppose being happy isn't important, then again the rising suicide rates and homelessness doesn't matter. Hey I bet that when everyone gets on the mopping floors and boxing cheap chinese trinkets the big companies will lower wages because now all these jobs are a dime a dozen. I am a professional welder and fabricator, I have watched what used to be jobs for 35 an hour now going for 11.50 to start. Hell I saw an ad for a welder with 10 years experience that can do machining and Mig, Tig, and stick weld various material for 14.50 an hour, lol not much better then working at Mickey D's. I am glad something worked for you, but I do not foresee the American Job Market looking any better in the near or far future unless something is done.





Effective July 1, starting wages at McDonald's (MCD) will be at least $1 an hour more than the minimum wage set by local law, the fast-food chain announced Wednesday. All employees up to restaurant managers will get a pay bump as well.

The result: the fast food giant projects that its average hourly wage will reach more than $10 an hour by the end of 2016 -- up from $9.01 currently. The new average will be $2.75 above the federal minimum wage.

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A large manufacturing facility in Jonestown, PA has the immediate need of MIG Steel and Aluminum Welders for a 2-3 Month Project. You must meet the following criteria for consideration.

**Must have reliable transportation
**Must have previous MIG welding experience with either steel or aluminum
**Company will provided welding equipment
**Project quoted to last 2-3 months

1st shift opportunities. Please send resume and/or contact information.


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13.00 an hour, I see a big disconnect one who does fast food is worth almost the same as the guy that fuses metal in which peoples lives require good sound welds. That ad is for a company called supreme, they want 5 years experience lol GTFO
edit on 19-1-2016 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: grey580

What the hell are you gonna rob from the poor? You gonna take back your handout that you gave them?



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:34 AM
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What do you expect from a guy who chose to have his Honeymoon in the Soviet Union?


+1 more 
posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: eXia7

If you believe everyone on state aid is a freeloader, then I can see the problem you are having.

Oddly enough, its people working three jobs with little or nothing to show for the inhuman effort they put in, who most often need the help. But I do not expect that to be properly understood, since thinking complexly and intelligently, and from an informed perspective on serious subjects has not been cool for a very long time.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
Yes folks, you are reading that correctly. 19.6 Trillion Dollars in Taxes in the next decade are proposed by Mr Sanders to 'pay' for his agenda. He is not dicussing how to balance the budget but how he will try to rob from the rich to give away free things. Free Healthcare(but you and your employer are taxed) and free college tuition and so on and so on. Socialism for ALL!!!!


www.washingtonexaminer.com...



Taken together, Sanders is proposing $19.6 trillion in new taxes over a decade, according to an analysis by the Washington Examiner, of which $14 trillion would come from his healthcare plan alone. To put that in perspective, the Congressional Budget Office projects that federal revenues over the next 10 years will be a total of $41.6 trillion, meaning that Sanders would raise taxes by 47 percent over current levels


The main part of this idea is a 'tax' for businesses that would be used to 'partially' pay for his Medicare based Single payer health coverage. There is also a tax to use the worker. He is also for ending tax breaks on those same employers who provide healthcare...uh...what?

Hey, he also wants to raise the FSOC limit so we can pay MORE taxes....oh, and another tax to finance mandatory family leave. HE wants to tax oil companies at a time when gas is about a buck also.

First it was just leaving you change from your paycheck...now it is going to Bern a hole in it and nothing will be left.


The president doesn't write laws. Bernie can only direct Congress and inspire the people to pressure law makers.

I think a Republican Congress and Sanders would work fine. If Bernie can bring awareness to the lobby problem he would have done more than most of the last few decades of presidents.


+1 more 
posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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What the Wall Street Journal won’t tell you is that $15 trillion in national health spending over 10 years would represent a massive savings for the United States. Right now we spend at twice that rate for health care. According to the Congressional Budget Office, in fiscal year 2013 alone, the U.S. spent $2.8 trillion on total health expenditures, not including the $250 billion tax break employers get for providing health insurance to their workers. Accounting for cost inflation in health care and extending that out for 10 years, on our current trajectory we would spend more than $30 trillion, compared to the $15 trillion of a single-payer plan, which would totally supplant it.



For context, last week Jeb Bush released a tax cut proposal that would cost $3.4 trillion over the next 10 years. I don’t recall the Wall Street Journal headline, “Price Tag of Jeb Bush’s Tax Cuts: $3.4 Trillion,” though perhaps I missed it. Incidentally, the analysts at Citizens for Tax Justice estimate that over half of the income tax cuts Bush proposed would go to the richest 1 percent of income earners. Nearly all of Bush’s corporate tax cuts, and the repeal of the estate tax, would go to the same wealthy cohort.



Well, first, right off the top, the U.S. will spend nearly $10 trillion on Medicaid, Medicare and Tricare in a decade. All the funding for these programs would be diverted to funding Sanders’ UHC proposal, which is essentially a Medicare expansion.



Instead of an insurance premium, a family making $50,000 — roughly the median family income — would only pay $1,100 in health care income taxes. That’s $3,855 less than what it would pay out-of-pocket for the average premium ($4,955,according to the Kaiser Family Foundation) and $5,173 less if a deductible ($1,318, for individual coverage) is factored in.”



Companies typically pay $12,591 annually per family. Under Sanders’ plan, an employer would pay an average of $3,350 for family coverage via the payroll tax.



Americans will spend $42 trillion out-of-pocket over a decade for private insurance. Sharing the cost of $19 trillion over that same period would save the average American money — and that helps the economy. Removing the burden of employer supplemented insurance would result in wage raises and more employment opportunities.


Don't let the little details get in the way of a click bait headline.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: grey580

What the hell are you gonna rob from the poor? You gonna take back your handout that you gave them?


Not just the poor. but also the federal government.

And do I really need to go into how a multitude of companies exploit the poor?

Just to name one thing. How lenders charge, usually poor people with bad credit, a higher interest rate on loans?

The list goes on and on and on.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs

Interesting I saw this thread pop up. I was just researching the issue and saw the article the OP linked to outside of ATS.

Trying to get more of a breakdown of the EXACT numbers, but so far it IS looking like Bernie will tax the Middle Class and the "Rich" into further damnation.

I've said many times, Bernie is an old Socialist dog with old Socialist tricks. Nothing nuanced, nothing profound, new.

He looks to completely different nations like Denmark, Sweden, Norway...and wishes to emulate them (his words)..

But his proposals are to the Left of the "Mixed Economy" model and it won't work.

Especially right NOW in our country when we need genuine stimulus and GROWTH. Our entire economy since 2008 has been a complete LIE. The 'recovery' is in name only. People do not have more disposable income and every business owner within my business groups and Meetups knows this. This past Christmas was one of the worst on record for a lot of us. We KNOW what the signs are.

A lot of us who do wholesale/retail of replenish/disposable goods VS. luxury items are seeing that people are only going after items they NEED, and trying to get it cheap. This has been a trend for the past 6 months.

I can't imagine a BERNIE SANDERS tax plan injected into this economy. He would stifle growth at almost every level not just the "Rich". And the trickle effect from the Middle Class to the lower Class would hurt, even though the lower class in theory might be the only "Net" beneficiary of his ideas.

He's repackaging 19th Century Socialism and pointing to Norway to say, "See...see...guys...it WORKS!"

He's a fool with old ideas thinking that the world doesn't recognize Neo-Marxism when we see it, the cultural aspect of his ideas is ANOTHER ISSUE entirely. How many times can an American politician try to emulate old word Europe, package it as "new and improved rebellious ideas", point to a few current European nations as "proof", and call it a PLAN?

He has nothing new, it's old hat, it's tiresome, it's lipstick on a pig and I look forward to the next year when his economic plans will get torn to shreds the more he proposes them in writing.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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I have really been wondering if people feel that humanity has already exhausted any and all political/economic systems..

It seems that is the underlying premise in every discussion of the sort, but I'm not convinced its accurate.

The ideal of these socialized systems is, in my opinion, pretty well placed. However, we always pursue it along the same lines.

Are we clever enough to design and implement welfare systems that foster self-sufficiency?

It seems that with ever-evolving technology and tools, it enables us as never before. But, we have yet to really seize the opportunity.

Are we clever enough to create an economic prisoner's dilemma, where the net benefit exceeds the personal, even individually?



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: grey580

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: grey580

What the hell are you gonna rob from the poor? You gonna take back your handout that you gave them?


Not just the poor. but also the federal government.

And do I really need to go into how a multitude of companies exploit the poor?

Just to name one thing. How lenders charge, usually poor people with bad credit, a higher interest rate on loans?

The list goes on and on and on.


I don't think you can claim robbing someone for having bad credit. That's just what you get when you fall behind. I'm a middle class worker and my ex let a car and a house get repossessed that was in my name. That was in 2005 and I'm STILL paying for it. That's not my fault, but that's how it goes when a person has bad credit. That's not exploiting, that's just being untrustworthy of a client that has obviously let bills slip by for a long time. I don't trust the feds though.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs

The bulk of the $19.6 trillion estimated by the Washington Examiner is to fund the single payer healthcare program ($14 trillion). What you seem to not realize is how much health insurance is costing currently:

2012 - $2.8 trillion
2013 - $2.9 trillion
2014 - $3.0 trillion

I haven't seen figures for 2015 yet but Forbes was estimating $3.03 trillion for 2015 in the first quarter. The point here is that the tax increase would be more than offset by the money businesses and employees won't be forking over to the for-massive-profit health insurance industry.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Yep. And America's population is about 300,000,000 more than those countries. So you can't really find success (in your mind) in following those smaller countries. Bernie is too old and senile.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:57 AM
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19.6 trillion divided by 10 equals $1.96 trillion more per year in taxes. Divide that by the population of 318 million and that equals out to about $6.16 more per person per year in taxes.

But let's be generous and cut that number in half to 160 million people since not everyone pays income tax (children/elderly), that still only equals out to about $12.32 more in taxes per person per year. Oh the humanity!

Or am I doing the math wrong here?
edit on 1/19/2016 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

Medical plans of ANY kind are beneficial to those that are sick. The problem with State funded/subsidized HEALTHCARE as an entity in America, is that it is NOT working.

There are a couple reasons:

1) The U.S. has HORRIBLE accounting of it's actual citizenry. Our Illegal Immigration problem alone accounts for a lot of spending which has not been properly audited. My family is in medical billing...trust me when I say that there is always a LOT of write-offs and waste. Corruption to the core, down to a boat load of nurses from the Philippines not even being licensed, and many not even here LEGALLY themselves. Yes...believe it.

2) Treatment at County facilities is a MUST. You CANNOT turn away people for E.R. care. And these costs are passed off to actual citizens through rise in care and medical equipment. Nobody really speaks of this as not to 'offend', but it's pervasive.

3) Obamacare is a Canary In A Coalmine. www.csmonitor.com...

The largest Insurer in the country projects LOSSES for 2016 and is opting out of the ACA Plan. It is NOT economically viable.
Why? Because there are more MEDICARE participants than not, and the pool is inundated with sick and poor, instead of Middle Class "average" patients'.

Add a Socialized Healthcare plan and imagine the flood of patients overnight, in a time like this, when the U.S. has the worst and most incompetent managers heading agencies. And on top of that the need to totally REVAMP a retool an industry that JUST got revamped for the ACA.

That's just ONE of the potential NIGHTMARES of Bernie's 'ideas"



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Brotherman

So what you are telling me is that it's easier for you to blame the system than it is to come up with a solution? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I came from nothing, and I found a niche to make money to create something. Perhaps you should consider these options.



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