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19.6 Trillion Dollars in Tax Increases...Can you feel the "Bern" now?

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posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA
They seem to do it fine in 58 countries around the world.


Because they don't know any better.


Are you completely ignorant to the fact that there is universal healthcare in many countries and that the people there are happy with it.


Are you completely ignorant that most of them have no measure to compare their care against others? It's easy to be happy with a turd sandwich when that's what everyone else is getting. Are you also ignorant of the fact that the metrics they use in other countries are not as robust as America's, which gives a false face of how well they are doing?


We make jokes about the bills people get in the US because it is a joke.


Oddly enough, the bills started becoming a joke when government got involved in health care.
edit on 19-1-2016 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

Trained for years? Try months. Paramedics stabilize an injured person so a specialized doctor can treat and heal them later.

Why not healthcare? Because while you have a right to take steps to keep yourself healthy, you do not have a right to demand a physician be your life coach.


My Brother-in-law was a firefighter. First an EMT then Firefighter. That isn't required to go that way but I'm just saying. But you keep training. First you qualify to make it. Then train. Some training is on the job. But this still is missing the point. Whether or not it's a firefighter isn't important, it's just an example. What I'm saying is there is no reason why Medical Doctors and the medical field couldn't be set up in a similar way.

What is with your choice in words like "demand"??? Is that just like your subtle way to suggest socialized services are some kind of tyranny where everyone just demands stuff and the poor helpless providers bow to their will??? Let's stick to reality here shall we.

Nobody get's to demand stuff anymore or less than they do now. Nobody can just demand someone else do something. It's still their choice to go to medical school and be a Dr. They still have some kind of schedule to work and so forth. Nothing changes other than how they are paid for their services and that can be handled any number of ways, usually internally. You're totally misrepresenting reality by saying that they'll be forced to do this or that against their will or be treated as slaves. It's just like anything else. If they want better pay they negotiate for it All such issues are just minor details that aren't even an issue like you're trying to make them out to be. It's not that difficult.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 06:07 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: introvert

Talk to this guy....

www.usatoday.com...

or this guy

www.cnn.com...

These are common stories...sad but true.


I already said that there are problems within the system that need to be addressed, but it does not change the fact that the VA backlog issue has nothing to do with medical care.

If one were to be honest, they would address that before moving the goalposts.
edit on 20-1-2016 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

The bills started to become a joke when government became involved, as a result of big pharma, and HMO which used to have a monopoly on that side of things, choosing to recoup their losses, rather than absorb them, which they had no right to do, given that healthcare provision is not something which one ought to do because it pays well, but something one should be doing out of entirely different motivations.

They could have just taken one for the team, and stopped hiking prices to cover their losses, but again, greed is more important than righteousness and justice, fairness and equality.

It is often refreshing when nothing seems to change, but some things, most notable amongst them, the determination of some people to keep the shackles around their ankles in place, is not one of those refreshing nods to the past.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 07:36 AM
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originally posted by: eXia7
I think this country has dealt with enough socialism for 8 years. Its time for lazy people to get back to work, or use their brains for more than scrolling an iphone screen.


Just say no to socialism.


And say yes to what? Capitalism?



I'm not sure you know what socialism really is



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 08:00 AM
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I just heard the guy from the money channel say the oil companies are going to be in trouble because they are deep in debt to banks. I wonder which one will the first to ask for bailouts after mass job layoffs. How many times does a philosophy like capitalism have to fail?



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

There's a few...

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: amicktd

There are a lot of little details that could reduce that number dramatically or it could even increase a little. My question is what are the other candidates plans?

crickets


Gary Johnson on Budget & Economy

Crickets are better than locusts.


He just comes across as to extreme to me. I like the cut subsidies, but it should only be for the corporations receiving billions in corporate welfare. The 43% cut to all social programs I can't get behind. Lots of disabled vets, elderly, etc. would get the shaft.

It always seems the same though. They are ok with sending these guys over there to fight corporate wars, but not willing to take care of them when they get back. Just sickens me to be honest.

I like the fact that he wants to cut the defense budget as well. But, will he bring them home or are they going to be stuck overseas with no bullet proof vests and other vital equipment they need?

I support Bernie and Johnson is about as far opposite as you can be from him from what I've read. So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on our candidates of choice. I have said before I don't support everything Bernie wants, but as a majority his policies look out for the people and thats something I can get behind. Thanks for the informative post though.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: amicktd

There are a lot of little details that could reduce that number dramatically or it could even increase a little. My question is what are the other candidates plans?

crickets


Gary Johnson on Budget & Economy

Crickets are better than locusts.


He just comes across as to extreme to me. I like the cut subsidies, but it should only be for the corporations receiving billions in corporate welfare. The 43% cut to all social programs I can't get behind. Lots of disabled vets, elderly, etc. would get the shaft.

It always seems the same though. They are ok with sending these guys over there to fight corporate wars, but not willing to take care of them when they get back. Just sickens me to be honest.

I like the fact that he wants to cut the defense budget as well. But, will he bring them home or are they going to be stuck overseas with no bullet proof vests and other vital equipment they need?

I support Bernie and Johnson is about as far opposite as you can be from him from what I've read. So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on our candidates of choice. I have said before I don't support everything Bernie wants, but as a majority his policies look out for the people and thats something I can get behind. Thanks for the informative post though.


My basic first step suggestion is to migrate authority back to the states and out of the hands of the federal government.

Even if that means dramatic tax increases in the states initially to compensate.

I think a very soft hand in overseeing the dismantlement of the central bureaucracy could allow a successful transition. I imagine many people would just get new patches for their jackets.

Local control is what works best.

Good texting to you too.
edit on 20-1-2016 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 10:01 AM
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Tax increases are supposedly a requirement to run social programs, but considering that taxes have been going up for years while the services those taxes paid for are being reduced year after year, do taxes really need to be increased or does spending and waste need to be addressed?.

I would happily pay more taxes if I actually got more for my money, which is one of those things that just never seems to happen.

If taxes were used to do the work of society and benefit the entirety of society, what is the problem?.

Too many worry about tax increases because they are just plain out greedy.

Your leaders are representative of you, come from you (kinda) and act the same way you do.

Greedy little capitalists who take advantage of the vulnerable any way they can think of.

And you know what?, going to church and praying for forgiveness a few times a year won't fix # if you keep being the criminals you are.
edit on 20-1-2016 by MyHappyDogShiner because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
You can bet no super-wealthy anybody is coming to see my GP or having a procedure done in my local hospital. There are certainly some of the finest doctors in the world in the US but the ability to cater to the super-wealthy medical tourists isn't exactly saying much about the care most Americans receive, is it?

This was over a decade ago, but when I was on my state's equivelant of Medicaid I had several very expensive procedures done at a well-respected university hospital and paid relatively little out of pocket. Believe it or not, they even covered the costs for another procedure I had done across the country at Johns Hopkins. These two hospitals rank among the best in the nation. I was a minor at the time, and the insurance was through a state-run health insurance program that ran out of funding several years later.

Take from that what you will. Among other things, it tells me Bernie's grand plans will turn out about as well as Obamacare has. That is, in miserable failure.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

What is with your choice in words like "demand"??? Is that just like your subtle way to suggest socialized services are some kind of tyranny where everyone just demands stuff and the poor helpless providers bow to their will??? Let's stick to reality here shall we.

Here's where they get this bullcrap:



"With regard to the idea of whether you have a right to health care, you have to realize what that implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery. It means that you’re going to enslave not only me, but the janitor at my hospital, the person who cleans my office, the assistants who work in my office, the nurses.

"Basically, once you imply a belief in a right to someone’s services, do you have a right to plumbing?

Do you have a right to water?

Do you have right to food?

You’re basically saying you believe in slavery. You’re saying you believe in taking and extracting from another person. Our founding documents were very clear about this.

You have a right to pursue happiness but there’s no guarantee of physical comfort.
There’s no guarantee of concrete items. In order to give something concrete, you have to take it from someone. So there’s an implied threat of force.

"If I’m a physician in your community and you say you have a right to health care, do you have a right to beat down my door with the police, escort me away and force me to take care of you?

That’s ultimately what the right to free health care would be.

If you believe in a right to health care, you’re believing in basically the use of force to conscript someone to do your bidding."


source

What an absolute bunch of CRAP. Insanity. But, that's who they listen to.


And this guy is A DOCTOR?

God save us.

edit on 1/20/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: mOjOm

What is with your choice in words like "demand"??? Is that just like your subtle way to suggest socialized services are some kind of tyranny where everyone just demands stuff and the poor helpless providers bow to their will??? Let's stick to reality here shall we.

Here's where they get this bullcrap:



"With regard to the idea of whether you have a right to health care, you have to realize what that implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery. It means that you’re going to enslave not only me, but the janitor at my hospital, the person who cleans my office, the assistants who work in my office, the nurses.

"Basically, once you imply a belief in a right to someone’s services, do you have a right to plumbing? Do you have a right to water? Do you have right to food? You’re basically saying you believe in slavery. You’re saying you believe in taking and extracting from another person. Our founding documents were very clear about this. You have a right to pursue happiness but there’s no guarantee of physical comfort. There’s no guarantee of concrete items. In order to give something concrete, you have to take it from someone. So there’s an implied threat of force.

"If I’m a physician in your community and you say you have a right to health care, do you have a right to beat down my door with the police, escort me away and force me to take care of you? That’s ultimately what the right to free health care would be. If you believe in a right to health care, you’re believing in basically the use of force to conscript someone to do your bidding."


source

What an absolute bunch of CRAP. Insanity. But, that's who they listen to.




What is insane about it? You cannot force someone else to provide you a service.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

AND NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE!



God, you people are exhausting.
Like a 'sheltered workshop' bunch of will-never-get-it types.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit

government and big business are so inextricably linked, that they share bowel movements and sections of their respiratory system at present



Omg, that made me LOL so hard. I'm sitting here with tears running down my face. Thank you. No truer words were ever spoken.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

Are we all oblivious to the cost offset this creates? You nor your employees have to pay for health coverage.....



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: eXia7

Your country, and your countrymen would not know socialism if it jumped up and kicked them in the throat.

Even your political left is right wing when compared to genuine socialist ideals and policy. If "The Bern" were a socialist, he would be insisting that healthcare be free at the point of issue, and paid for via taxation, like a sensible nation might do. Of course, the US is so incredibly right wing, that even what passes for the left there cannot get such a measure passed.

I would throw the most leftist of your politicians out of any socialist organisation in my country. And before anyone gets down my neck, talking about how different our nations are... Let's get something straight. Just because some nations do not understand terminology correctly, does not change the meaning of that terminology. Since the left and right paradigm was invented in, and codified in Europe, no one over the other side of the damned pond has any business redrawing the lines in the sand which define the two opposing sides. And take it from someone who lives in the EU... You haven't any socialism now, you never have had.


Really poetic, but while you were working politics, American's haven't really cared about anything other than Propaganda for....forever.

The Socialist Party is whatever the Right wing says it is.
The same goes for the existence of Jesus
and any other History book for that matter.

I dare you to buy my Texas Tech(supposedly a good school) History book, and not laugh your ass off. Even the general literacy of our books has gone down. Probably so George Bush could fact check them.
edit on 20-1-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

I'm wondering why so many ATS users get to post all day. Retired, out of work, laid off...what the hell?



I don't post all day, but I do read quite a few threads. I'm not retired, nor am I out of work or laid off. I'm not on "government handouts" and I don't live in Section 8 housing etc. And I'm not snatching time to post on ATS while I'm punching someone else's time clock.

I run my own business.

Since I AM the boss, I can read and post on ATS as I choose. You might be surprised at how many other ATS members are also business owners or work from home.

Don't jump to conclusions. Just sayin'.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: imjack

I would love to see some samples of how bad they are, although I would understand if, in the event that quoting from them constitutes some sort of offence under the law, or a violation of T&Cs, you are not prepared to do that.

The fact that text books do not contain pure fact is somewhat disappointing. I can only hope that any text books on nuclear physics contain far less by way of avoidable errors. Forget to carry a one in that field, and you can say bye bye to the laboratory, and possibly the campus itself.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated


What is insane about it?

Okay. I'm going to try to explain this to you.
Rand Paul said that you could send police to forcibly take him from his home and force him to be your medical slave doctor.
THAT is insane.


You cannot force someone else to provide you a service.

Right!!!!!!

No
one
is
going
to
force
anything.

*huge sigh of frustration*

What Rand Paul is saying is absolute insanity. NO ONE is going to come and drag people out of their beds. I used to have some respect for the twirly-haired manchild - but, no.

When I heard this come out of his cupid lips, I threw up behind my own lips a little bit.

Insane.


edit on 1/20/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



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