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19.6 Trillion Dollars in Tax Increases...Can you feel the "Bern" now?

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posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Okay - so - you're still going with the idea that the model Sanders is espousing does not include Capitalism?

Because. Yes. It does.
It doesn't "do away with" capitalism. It isn't "communism." It is Democratic Socialism, a smart, balanced hybrid that is working for the most 1st-world-countries, and improving things for the developing and 3rd world countries.

You keep harping on how they are "Capitalist based" -
and we keep confirming that you are CORRECT, and saying to you YES, THEY ARE!!!

NO ONE said they are not!

*sigh*
so - do you accept that now?
No one in the USA is promoting communism......NO ONE who is running for POTUS is saying that Communism is better.....

it is about a balance.

edit on 1/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: introvert

So you simply want to continue what the ACA has created and tax us further? That is what you are saying.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: eXia7

Your country, and your countrymen would not know socialism if it jumped up and kicked them in the throat.

Even your political left is right wing when compared to genuine socialist ideals and policy. If "The Bern" were a socialist, he would be insisting that healthcare be free at the point of issue, and paid for via taxation, like a sensible nation might do. Of course, the US is so incredibly right wing, that even what passes for the left there cannot get such a measure passed.

I would throw the most leftist of your politicians out of any socialist organisation in my country. And before anyone gets down my neck, talking about how different our nations are... Let's get something straight. Just because some nations do not understand terminology correctly, does not change the meaning of that terminology. Since the left and right paradigm was invented in, and codified in Europe, no one over the other side of the damned pond has any business redrawing the lines in the sand which define the two opposing sides. And take it from someone who lives in the EU... You haven't any socialism now, you never have had.


You mean this Socialist Britain?


Britain today is a country where a baby is allowed to die living homeless with his parents in a car because they had been evicted from one property and could not afford the extortionate deposit for another. It is a country where more than a million people are forced to use food banks to feed themselves and their families.

It is a country where young people are saddled with a life time of debt if they go to university, have no prospect of secure or affordable housing, and are largely consigned to low paid, insecure work.

Anti-austerity

It is the growing rebellion at this endless austerity which has led to both Jeremy Corbyn’s election and the search for an alternative to capitalism. If you look up ’capitalism’ in the Collins English Dictionary it suggests you compare it with the alternative – ’socialism’.

Socialist ideas have been developed over centuries in the course of humanity’s fight for a better life. Today they remain the only viable alternative in an increasingly unstable and brutal, capitalist world. It is this reality that ensures that socialism is not a spent force but the wave of the future.

Britain is a rich country. During four weeks of Jeremy Corbyn’s election campaign alone the richest 1,000 people in Britain – with a combined wealth of £547 billion – became £2.3 billion richer.


Where it is claimed to be socialist but isn't? Or only when it suits the wealthy?

No thanks. Just another hypocritical society where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We've already got one of those, it's called capitalism........I think.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Except it doesn't work all that well.

It isn't a growth model. If you dig deep into the numbers, most of those economies have slower growth than the US economy has exhibited these past 8 years and they tend to have chronic double digit unemployment. The high rates of taxation keep the birth rates low to negative so that the native populations are in a death spiral which is partially what has caused the Euro elite to open the flood gates to unrestrained refugees.

Otherwise, their welfare state economies would be looking at the trouble our own Ponzi scheme programs are facing - not enough workers to create a broad enough tax base to suitably defray the costs of an aging population at the top. The base has shrunk because no one can afford to have children so it is culturally no longer a thing considered desirable.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: greencmp


That look is great!

Yeah, it is.....
but, when it's a little kid - you have to think about what they are hearing and watchi---------------
bah. Never mind.
Make no mistake though, the kids are listening.


I see, I thought it was a 'face palm' type emoto-photo.

It can be a persuasive device to invoke cherubic imagery.


(little capitalist girl)
edit on 19-1-2016 by greencmp because: turnabout



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain


Ask some former Cubans too!

One of my good friends and neighbors is a Cuban, who defected and came here....
(he's not a "former" Cuban, he is Cuban - and brought his culture and sensibilities with him)......
he is self-employed and his wife is a head nurse.......they are lovely people. Happily married, down to earth, normal people.

Guess who he supports? (They both do)
BERNIE

Guess who he thinks is the worst? (They both do)
TRUMP

Go figure.


Heh go figure nothin. My dad and grandfather (both Cuban, both self employed, both happily married) hate Bernie. They are nice people too lol.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: introvert

So you simply want to continue what the ACA has created and tax us further? That is what you are saying.


Again, no.

The ACA empowered and enriched the insurance companies. I'd like to do away with them. Did the ACA shut-down the insurance companies?

I don't know how you are coming up with your conclusions, but it shouldn't be so hard to follow along.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: BatheInTheFountain


What? I think Bernie Sanders is a class A good guy. I believe him to be a good man.

Good to know/hear.


His ideas are great, just not on paper. And Socialism is a pernicious ideology, culturally and economically.

They haven't yet been given a chance here in the USA.


I can hate people's ideas and still like them

Except for ...... me? (Of whom your opinion, were you to share it, would violate T&C here on ATS?)
Sanders supporters in general?
Norwegians who come here and try to explain how it all works? Canadians, and Brits, and other folks who have more experience than you do?

Forgive me - but, it feels like I need to feel like I accomplished something here.
If you don't mind.


This "mud-pit" is really yucky. I'm leaving now.
Get some rest.



edit on 1/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Incorrect, Bernie is a Neo Marxist of the Chicago school.... to the core. As almost all of the graduates of the mid century Chicago Mafia intellectuals are.

"Socialistic" policy can intertwine with Capitalism as the economic mode (China) as a driver.

It still doesn't discount bottom up tendencies in economics and CULTURAL Marxism as a "moral" driver.

Like I said, Bernie is a good guy, infinitely a better human than I am. But the wrong guy for United States 2016



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Bernie went to Nicaragua and supporter the Sandinistas.

www.breitbart.com...



In 1985, he became the highest-ranking American official to visit Nicaragua at the time, and met with President Daniel Ortega. In his book, he called the trip “profoundly emotional” and praised Ortega. Burlington [where Sanders was mayor] and Managua, Nicaragua’s capital, became sister cities.


They became sister cities...how sweet. Good friend with Daniel Ortega. I am sure you know who he is. The guy who overthrew the US backed government, or ok, dictator at the time.

I think it was even funnier when he created a softball team called

“People's Republic of Burlington"

He has always talked about how great Fidel and Cuba is to their citizens. I am sure there are some in Miami who are not to call with that...

He is just, to me, not what the country needs. We need to cut spending not make more.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

It's not how you portray, there's a trade-off. A small tax for outrages fees, deductibles, co-pays and prescriptions and nowhere near the return on your investment. The insurance industry does not price according to demand and for your massive amounts of money they still get to choose what they will cover... not you.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

breitbart?
try again.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

It works fine. And that's all I have to say to you.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:03 PM
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If Bernie were President, his mere inauguration day ceremony would make the markets drop.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:04 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: introvert

So you want to totally remove private organizations and make the US government the Healthcare provider?


No.

I want the US government to oversee a UHC coverage plan and open hospitals where and when needed. That would be rare though. Private healthcare providers would still exist.


So, how are these private healthcare providers regulated? By the US government? Since that is working out so well now you want to give them full control?



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

In other words you can't refute it, or you are perfectly happy with chronically high unemployment, high taxes, a negative birth rate that imperils the economic underpinnings behind your welfare state and the necessary importation of a economic underclass to fuel it?


edit on 19-1-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

In other words you can't refute it, or you are perfectly happy with chronically high unemployment, high taxes, a negative birth rate that imperils the economic underpinnings behind your welfare state and the necessary importation of a economic underclass to fuel it?



Good post. To the point.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: StoutBroux

Precisely my point.

Even here, where Americans believe we have socialism all over the place, things which would not be allowed to occur under a comprehensive and compassionate socialist government, are happening. Evictions, joblessness, an inadequate and uneven safety net, and unequal access to things like legal advice and the like. Where is the proper socialist, lefty hand wringing here?

Answer...there is not any. And yet our NHS offends the hyper capitalist right!



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: introvert

So you want to totally remove private organizations and make the US government the Healthcare provider?


No.

I want the US government to oversee a UHC coverage plan and open hospitals where and when needed. That would be rare though. Private healthcare providers would still exist.


So, how are these private healthcare providers regulated? By the US government? Since that is working out so well now you want to give them full control?


Yes.

We have seen from other nations with socialized medicine and government-regulated systems that it is possible to decrease costs while raising life expectancy. The biggest error in our system is that we allow a large portion of our money to enrich corporations that spend that spend more money on lobbying, executive pay and advertising. We could lower costs, cover everyone, spend more on R&D and increase life expectancy.

The only good thing I can say about the ACA is that it did enact stricter regulations. That was a step forward.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

No, I've refuted plenty. I just don't want to talk to you; you've burned that bridge, little sister.
Those countries are doing fine.

********************************

Your post is utterly ridiculous.

At this point I refer you to TrueBrit, tenth, Cranial Sponge, masqua, CharlieSpiers, and the dozens of others who are not Americans, and who are living in 1st-world-countries that have Universal Health Care and Higher Education as part of their infrastructure.

Also, I would be surprised to hear you explain how under "Obama" the last 8 years have been "great!" - because you are one of our resident Obama-haters. How can you be such an Obama hater and ALSO be pleased with the last 8 years?
Are you, by any chance, admitting that things aren't so horrible under Obama as you'd like them to be (for purposes of your Libertarian cause)?

You know what? Don't answer. I'm done. I have nothing more to say to you.





edit on 1/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



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