How do we feed everyone without money?

a reply to: onequestion

What amazes me is we actually think we as humans are far superior to the anminal kingdom. That we have no relation to it what so ever. NO.

It is a dog eat dog world plain and simple. it's survival of the fittest. Anyone who told you life was gonna be easy or fair lied. Get that through your stinkin head!

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue

So should there be a financial sector of government similar to the judicial and executive branch with direct oversight from both?

I dunno what the story is in the US but as far as most countries go they all have their treasury dpt, the govt money creation machinery could be run through that institution.

To guard against any measure to create more than x amount of money above the GDP, the arrangement could include the entire reps in both hoses could be required for a treasury money creation act could pass, a fail safe device is considered wise.

suggest Banks Lie, Chris Fields - free 50 page Ebook. will tell you every lie and deceit the banks enage in.

suggest article: Manufacturing Money by Australian Mark Mansfield B.Ec

The Remarkable Model Of The Commonwealth Bank Of Australia - written by a lady in the US as study for a similar bank in the state concerned.

originally posted by: lavatrance
a reply to: onequestion

What amazes me is we actually think we as humans are far superior to the anminal kingdom. That we have no relation to it what so ever. NO.

It is a dog eat dog world plain and simple. it's survival of the fittest. Anyone who told you life was gonna be easy or fair lied. Get that through your stinkin head!

Nope! I refuse. The whole point is that it doesn't have to be like that. We have the intelligence & the capabilities to elevate ourselves and our communities above the primitive "dog eat dog" mentality.

In fact, a very basic concept in business is to create or increase the scarcity of something, specifically to increase the demand & price of it. That goes against the claim that this scarcity is a natural occurrence. So if we were honest and realistic, it's not a "dog eat dog" world. It's a "each dog can find enough food to feed itself, but their owners artificially reduce the amount of food they can acquire, thus forcing the dogs to compete with each other over the leftover crumbs" kind of world.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I feel like people that require menial labor have most likely done a cost/benefit analysis and realized it's going to be more expensive to automate the process.

Are you suggesting that the govt. funds the investment in new equipment? What would happen to the low wage workers? Something is better than nothing for them I would think. So if we have a bunch of people with no real skills and low intelligence, and we replace them with machines, what will they do? I remember hearing (and I have NO idea if it's true) that the Greeks had some advances in technology that they didn't utilize because it would have made people obsolete. Then again, look how they worked out.

I don't disagree that with advances in technology we should be able to free people from menial labor, but where do they go?

Please know I'm not trying to be combative and get in a stupid thread fight, I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

If I could wave a magic wand and everyone would have enough to eat, a roof over their head, free healthcare and a fulfilling job I would wave the crap out of it.

LOL, I love slipper plants!

We kinda have that though. We're just a little squeamish. Eat the cow, use it all, boom boots and steak.

Oh, no offense taken. And I believe that those people could basically live how they choose. Some could devote their time towards writing, singing, reading, making movies, or whatever, if they chose to. Others could focus on playing & spectating in different types of sports or martial arts, or on personal goals like "visiting every waterfall in the world". Others could spend more time with families or on community events (no more having to choose between the kids or work).

My preference would be to also have different "function specific" districts where people could work together to advance humankind. There could be a "language" district where those citizens worked to find, catalog, translate, and document every known language. A related district could focus on learning & documenting the different "languages" and ways that animals communicate (while another focuses on languages & writings of the past, literally attempting to translate every writing in history into a single database). There could be an "exploration" district that explored all of Earth's caves, oceans, and jungles; while a related district could do similar work throughout our solar system.

Maybe these "function specific districts" would be completely voluntary. Or maybe there would be a mandatory 10-20hr a week minimum as a social "duty" for being a citizen, like modern jury duty. Any addition hours could gain some special credits or perks for the person. If we advanced enough, it could be something like extra credits on our "Space Passes", which would be necessary for vacations to our space colonies. LOL I dunno, I haven't figured that part out yet.

Of course, people would still be free to create private companies as well, but there would have to be limits to their sizes & scope so no one could become powerful enough to take over the colony. The main role of the government would be to run & maintain the automated systems that create the overabundance in the first place. Well, that and security functions.

As for today, I think there's a big misunderstanding about most people who do menial labor. That doesn't mean they don't have other abilities or capabilities. It just means they're not in a position where they can exploit their actual talents or pursue their actual dreams. As an example, in really impoverished communities, most sports, art, and acting skills are absolutely useless. It doesn't matter how well someone can put a ball through a hoop if their child is sick & there isn't any clean water for miles. Relieving the masses of the "work or die" environment could unleash a wave of creativity & advances that mankind has literally never seen before! And even if people wanted to just sit & be on the computer all day, I don't think it would be bad either. It would just create more conversations like our current one.

a reply to: onequestion

I think a good way that we can start is by thinking of more effective ways of growing food itself. For instance instead of wasting huge amounts of land trying to grow crops that will suffer the effects of things such as pests, bad weather, ect. we should create entire structures/buildings dedicated to hydroponic food growth. this would not only eliminate the need for pesticides and soil, but would also produce a better more sustainable crop output.

a reply to: lavatrance

NO! This is the mentality of a backwards, brutish society and it will only further greed, hatred, and the end of humanities furthering as a species.

a reply to: onequestion

Make people on welfare work in community gardens
Open them to homeless

I am in an appartment complex
I though I make a herb garden for everyone downstairs and plant my citrus trees there too (I have 4 on my balcony they don't grow because the pot size)

this is why I think people are s*** themselves doing it..

1. What if my bastard neighbour grabs it all for himself (no trust in people)
2. You're crazy right ??
3. This is my property b*** no can't do .. you can't free ride on my piece of dirt that I pay two Gardeners full time weekly to come an blow that one leaf of ... Logic please !!!!

originally posted by: Enlil2215
a reply to: onequestion

I think a good way that we can start is by thinking of more effective ways of growing food itself. For instance instead of wasting huge amounts of land trying to grow crops that will suffer the effects of things such as pests, bad weather, ect. we should create entire structures/buildings dedicated to hydroponic food growth. this would not only eliminate the need for pesticides and soil, but would also produce a better more sustainable crop output.

Then there's all of the people who have land right now, but don't use any of it to grow edible foods. Food producing lawns & houseplants would do wonders towards increasing the food supply. The same goes with choosing food producing "pets", such as female chickens & quails (for eggs) & Nubian goats (for milk). Even meat eaters could keep rabbits & chickens for food, if needed.

Then there are all of the edible "weeds". I mean plants like kudzu & Japanese knotweed that produce at ridiculously high rates (and are perfectly safe to eat), as well as common plants like dandelions and broadleaf plantains.

So many good ideas on this thread. This is why people need to get together empowering each other and not just doing one thing, but bringing out ideas from many and lifting off different projects. This is what it takes. Us growing up, not handing the reigns over to those who disappoint us in government mismanagement jobs.

The part about someone not offering their land and putting down those in need, in another post. It can't be forced, but participation can be grown and show positive results. If a community is well cared for and also adding to the list, people support each other in starting cottage industries and small businesses, then not only will crimes and policing go down, hospitalization and mental health costs, but also there would be more economic success.

a reply to: onequestion

like in a hostage situation, you eliminate the threat...

one can't really claim they are providing a service if they require something compensatory in return for that service?

why are hungry people so threatening?

a reply to: onequestion

just grow fruit and veg in your back yard?
you don't need meat to survive.

i appreciate the governments don't allow you too and some really hot country's cant do that.

but if we all grew then we can all share, you will just have to sacrifice the types of foods your are currently used to (mainly artificial crap in can or packet) - i bet health would increase positively by doing so.

a reply to: onequestion

The only way to feed everyone is to find more resources in space and split our population into pioneering colonies. Space exploration, advances in space travel, terraforming, streamlining humanity's basic needs, and replenishing over worked environments is how we start. Small steps, and sometimes big leaps when our environments threaten our survival. Certainly some "colonies" will be threatened with extinction, such is life. Humanity will find many paths to ensure survival, and of those attempts to traverse those paths, some will prove survivable. It's all out there for us to explore and experience, to "live".

First we need to stop throwing excess of unused food in dumpsters. Most of it never even reaches expiry date and is completely fine for consumption. Only human being is so pathetic to be doing this over and over again. Secondly we need to figure out what to do with all this food, how to make it reach all those hungry people before it expires.

This is however only a temporary solution so our primary goal should be helping them with technology and tools and educating them how to make a sustainable outdoor or indoor environment for growing all types of food. Of course this is not so easy as it sounds because, just like someone has already mentioned it, you would run into all kind of obstacles in the process. I think that a major shift in our thinking is required before anything else. Once and if we get this sorted out, rest will be a piece of cake. Tech is there, knowledge is there, land or space is there....only waiting for humans to join this resolve.

How many of you claiming aquaponics is the panacea to humanities hunger have ever worked on a large setup? I was all about it, but the super efficiency is bs like algae oil for the time being. Monies are made in marketing to idealists who buy into the aquaponics = high efficiency meme. Nobody else profits.

It goes like this:

-Curious to aquaponics.
-Spend monies on center to learn about growing aquaponics.
-Invest in setup.
-Learn the reality that it's high risk, low profit, not much improved yields vs conventional means
-Convert business into teaching to grow aquaponics
-Bank off others curiosity

The solution is another pyramid scheme?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

okay well why do we have to feed everyone? Can't people feed themselves if they're as smart as you think? We should learn to be radically self reliant so we dn't have to rely on anyone or any country for a handout in life.

a reply to: onequestion

Ask yourself why our government makes it almost illegal to grow our own food on our own land (in urban areas) why they own and do NOTHING with most of the land mass, why people know how to build a website but not toil dirt or plant a seed, why farming is left to Mega Corporations....and you might get your answer.

originally posted by: lavatrance
a reply to: enlightenedservant

okay well why do we have to feed everyone? Can't people feed themselves if they're as smart as you think? We should learn to be radically self reliant so we dn't have to rely on anyone or any country for a handout in life.

That literally can't work in large cities or other jurisdictions with property rights. It's not like people can go onto any land they want & forage for food & supplies. Besides, it takes a lot of land for individuals to grow all of their own food, much less all of the food & supplies they'd need to enjoy life. I already support things like urban gardens, which can increase the food supply. But no apartment complex is going to have enough room for each person living there to grow all of their food or make all of their supplies. That's simply not realistic.

But humans don't need to do that anyway. That's literally the point in "societies". Individuals and their families form a large social structure where they can focus on different tasks that help each other. That way, some people can specialize in agriculture, fishing, and livestock, while most other people can focus on other things that help that society, like law enforcement, engineering, teaching, etc. There would literally be no such thing as a "civilization" if every person had to be "radically self reliant", as you put it.

In fact, I'd dare say only some indigenous groups and maybe a few small sects like the Amish-Mennonites are close to being truly "self reliant". And even they work in communities like the ones I mentioned above. Nearly every other person on the planet relies on others for something, like the creation of their cars, their boats, their clothes, their writing utensils and basic tools, shoes, medicines, weapons, performing surgeries, their computers, etc. LOL

In fact, I'd say the myth of radical self reliance falls on its face when we realize the people preaching it have to use computers and an internet that required other people's work. No offense, of course.