How do we feed everyone without money?

a reply to: onequestion

I need to get off my ass and do this at my place.

a reply to: infolurker

I agree!

I'm waiting for the opportunity when I live somewhere that will let me do it.

a reply to: onequestion


Also, nobody talks about duckweed. It is the ultimate food multiplier!

Can be used to feed fish, rabbits, and chickens.

Duckweed can be over 40% protein by dry weight, and double in mass in 24 hours.

Unless we go full hunger games technology will make poverty obsolete imo. We are capable of feeding everyone now but greed and propoganda have made sure the few benefit from the many. Vertical indoor gardens, underwater gardens, desalination plants, machines that clean our air and water, growing meat proteins instead of big ago, benevolent genetically modified food not Monsanto crap only made for profit, find a way to not waste a 3rd of our food. Also the most important thing imo is to stop governments from stifling production so we can grow at our full potential.
The utopia is there and all we have to do is want it and make it happen. I'm optomistic that we eventually will see a star trek lIke civilization.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: onequestion


Also, nobody talks about duckweed. It is the ultimate food multiplier!

It doubles in mass every few days and can be used to feed fish and chickens.

Nice! Thanks for the info!

a reply to: onequestion
Hmm, are you familiar with my socialist utopia theory? It hinges on the concept of using automation and advanced technology to produce an overabundance of crops & goods. That way, only a small percentage of workers would be needed to fulfill all of that society's needs. This would free up everyone else's time to pursue their dreams, spend more time with family, and/or help the society advance itself in other ways.

In other words, I think the wave of automation, and extreme increases in productivity are only bad in our current economic system. But they are literally the keys to finally achieving the utopian societies many "visionaries" have always dreamed of. I literally can't imagine a truly "advanced" or truly "civilized" nation that requires the majority of its citizens do menial labor just for that society to survive. That's not "advanced" at all.

(note: I should probably write out my theory & make pamphlets & pdfs of it. But right now, I'm only in the beginning stages. Plus, I kinda hope others will take the idea & run with it. There doesn't have to be a "one size fits all" approach to it.)

a reply to: onequestion



www.bbc.co.uk...

Ending World Hunger: Sources of Protein
hungermath.wordpress.com...

In my book Hunger Math: world hunger by the numbers, I analyzed over 120 crops to find the most productive sources of each macronutrient: protein, fat, and carbohydrate. In other posts on this blog, I’ve discussed the need for dietary fat and the most productive fat crops. Here I’d like to deal with the issue of protein crops.

#1 on the list:

Duckweed (water lentils), at a high estimate of yield (30 t/ha), far out produces other crops for kg of protein per hectare per year. At a low estimate of yield (10 t/ha), the crop still makes the top ten list of most productive protein crops. The yields listed as high and low are on a dry matter basis (DM), i.e. calculated after neglecting the weight of water content.

The U.N.’s Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) cites a paper from the Centre for Duckweed Research & Development at a University in Australia: “When effectively managed in this way duckweeds yield 10-30 ton DM/ha/year containing up to 43% crude protein, 5% lipids and a highly digestible dry matter.” [Duckweed – a potential high-protein feed resource for domestic animals and fish; Leng et al.]

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I agree. We should be using technology towards our advantage. The problem is only the elite have access to our technology because their companies fund all the RnD. So for them it's great and it's only when they are done with it that we the serfs are allowed access.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

That's obviously very similar to how we've been able to advance. With agriculture came the ability to feed many with less manpower, which freed people up to pursue other things, which led to technology leading to even more people being able to not focus on feeding themselves.

My admittedly very limited understanding is that it's not that we can't grow enough food, but getting it to certain areas is the problem because of cost. Like everything else there are also a ton of other variables.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: enlightenedservant

That's obviously very similar to how we've been able to advance. With agriculture came the ability to feed many with less manpower, which freed people up to pursue other things, which led to technology leading to even more people being able to not focus on feeding themselves.

My admittedly very limited understanding is that it's not that we can't grow enough food, but getting it to certain areas is the problem because of cost. Like everything else there are also a ton of other variables.

Correct, transportation, distribution, and corruption are the problems.

If you set up these aquaponic greenhouses everywhere, that will solve the problem BUT that would compete with mega-corps. Imagine what would happen if everyone grew their own food.... Big Ag would go bankrupt.. LOL

a reply to: onequestion

You must be fairly young. Starvation is way down from the seventies and eighties, if memory serves. Along with population, food production and yields per acre have soared.

China is turning into a meat consuming nation as the wealth increases internally.

To answer your question, you don't. Starvation is inevitable in a scenario of economic collapse. Food reserves in North American cities is three days. THREE DAYS.

That's assuming even distribution and that will not happen. Them with guns will get the lion's share, them without? Toast.

Infrastructure collapse will be immediate. I will leave the rest to your imagination. Suffice to say it will be nasty...

a reply to: onequestion

The thing is, much of that technology is available to normal citizens now, too. Family owned industrialized farms and co-ops are prime examples of this, though on an admittedly smaller scale. And if entire neighborhoods banded together and pooled their resources, we'd have the money for the more expensive projects right now. That obviously varies depending on the collective wealth in each neighborhood. But seeing as citizens spend countless billions on corporate goods right now, just imagine what we could do if those resources were reallocated to these kinds of projects instead.

a reply to: Domo1

The difference between then & now is that back then, it still required incredible amounts of labor by poor citizens. And the larger the civilization, the larger the required labor pool. Hence, the widespread use of slavery, forced labor by prisoners, & the abduction of civilians during wartime. Even today's "wealthiest" societies require cheap labor for many of their industries to work (like the Middle East's "kafala" system & the large amount of illegal immigrants & cheap laborers working in Western agricultural & construction industries).

But by using automation, heavily industrialized equipment, and the most advanced techniques, we can finally get rid of the massive labor requirement. There are even amazing advances now such as 3D-printed houses that can be constructed in days. If we can unite these technologies and use them for the common good, it would free up our massive hindrance of "required menial labor by the masses".

Though in fairness, if artificial intelligence ever truly picked up, we'd be seen as robot oppressors lol. So maybe the step after that would be to genetically modify things so that they grow into the products we'd be using. Kind of like how gourds grow into perfectly usable containers (though their current versions require labor to get them to become usable to us). Maybe then we could engineer "slipper weeds" that have leaves that grow into slip-on "shoes", and you simply pluck them off the plant at the desired size. Then our AI neighbors could have freedom too (ok, I'm probably over thinking this. I probably need to take a break from here lol.)

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I really like your last idea.

Take a fertile land capable of housing thousands, draft a law that requires said people to grow farms of a set number of acres, they'll be required by law to use nothing nasty for fertilizer, to harvest enough for family to last until next season, and then all the overhead goes to starving countries and starving people within our own country. The USA has enough land to do this.

But alas, people would rather look to pseudo-nutritional "science" by the FDA and eat complete garbage from grocery stores. The Pharmaceutical Lobby/Medical/Big Ag. would never allow this.

Hell, if we, or any other peoples, actually got our heads out of our asses we could feed the whole planet instead of spending millions, billions, trillions, on weaponry used to kill people that's never done anything to us.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I feel like people that require menial labor have most likely done a cost/benefit analysis and realized it's going to be more expensive to automate the process.

Are you suggesting that the govt. funds the investment in new equipment? What would happen to the low wage workers? Something is better than nothing for them I would think. So if we have a bunch of people with no real skills and low intelligence, and we replace them with machines, what will they do? I remember hearing (and I have NO idea if it's true) that the Greeks had some advances in technology that they didn't utilize because it would have made people obsolete. Then again, look how they worked out.

I don't disagree that with advances in technology we should be able to free people from menial labor, but where do they go?

Please know I'm not trying to be combative and get in a stupid thread fight, I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

If I could wave a magic wand and everyone would have enough to eat, a roof over their head, free healthcare and a fulfilling job I would wave the crap out of it.

LOL, I love slipper plants!

We kinda have that though. We're just a little squeamish. Eat the cow, use it all, boom boots and steak.

a reply to: Domo1

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

If we can feed everyone then we have 1 problem solved.

a reply to: onequestion

Well we have that problem solved, there are a host of others that prevent it from being shared.

Infrastructure is a problem. You want to send a ton of food to a group of people, but there are no roads, no landing strips, coupled with terribly corrupt local officials how do you do it? Those are the problems that need solving, and then you run into a huge amount of ethical issues. So take over the country/area? Country bitches, UN bitches. Locals feel oppressed, things are complicated, AID workers get shot at.

Man we may disagree on a lot of stuff, but I think we both want to see everyone have their basic human needs met. I don't know how to do it. I don't think anyone has figured it out yet.

And so we'll keep talking and trying.

It's gotten better. It may not seem like it but things are better. Keep talking, keep trying, keep sharing ideas and goals.

originally posted by: onequestion
Ok. Thinking utopian paradise here, so you far to right wingers who wants everyone to slave for food won't like this idea. Just warning you.

So there's a lot of poor and starving people in this world who are left out of the economy. I'm not talking just the US I'm talking the entire world. Either their resources are being stolen by Rothchild managed mining companies in Africa and Sourh America, or their country is in chaos in the Middle East, or there is a caste system like in India, or the United States, or the various other causes for world hunger.

Finance being the main reason why people starve, not lack of resources.

If you've been paying attention, which a few of you have, you know we are losing jobs in the western world. The main reason being technology! We are losing millions of jobs to automation and will continue to do so. Because of this there is a massive divide forming between the haves and have nots (almost everyone is a have not).

So we have issues to face now. At what point do we finally say that enough is enough and everyone on this planet gets food, water, and a place to live. Weather it's a lot of land they have to figure out what to do with or a thatched hut whatever.

So ATS, how do we feed everyone?

Its becoming more well known now that banks create money out of thin air. So if banks can do then govt can to using the extact same method.

How does money get created? a short lesson - yours and my signature on paper enables the banks to create an account in yours and my name into which it desposits credit - not cash.

So where does the credit come from?

When you and I sign the paperwork they use their form (spreadsheet) in the banks computer to create the account. They enter all the details in the form and the last thing they do write in the number (the amount of credit)

before they write in the number its just an account without any money in it (credit.) So before entering the number their is no money in the account. After writing in the number is the money (credit) in the account.

The act of writing in the number, thereby creates the money. Its so simple many people have a hard time getting their head around it.

If anyone believes the banks uses the deposits of other depositors to put into the account, ask yourself and others this. Have you ever gone through a bank statement only to find a few hundred or a few k missing so you phone the bank and ask whats going on and be told r right, we forgot to tell but we lent that money out last month.? ever had that experience, do you know of anyone who has, No you haven't because this action is outlawed by banking legislation is all countries in the world.

Point is that if the banks can do it then the govt can do it to and then none of us would have to pay tax because the govt can create all the money it needs just by setting up an account and placing credit in it.

We only pay tax now because the govt did not reserve for the people its supposed to represent, the same power it gave to the banks. I.e, the power to create money out of thin air as described above.

Knowing that, what do you think of your govt for not reserving this money creating right for itself which it gave to the banks?

a reply to: Azureblue

So should there be a financial sector of government similar to the judicial and executive branch with direct oversight from both?

a reply to: onequestion

"How do we feed everyone without money?"

Didn´t know that money is edible...