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Sanders Rocks The Democratic Debate By Dropping A Medicare For All Bomb In SC

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posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Health care where a government bean counter decides what medications will be available for what ailments based on what is cost effective, not what is most effective on the illness, so you might not get access to the very best medications or medications that might otherwise be offered if the standard treatments don't work for you,

Oh, and God help you if you have a rare illness or one that does not respond to the standard treatment.

Migraine sufferers have trouble in socialized care countries because our treatment works best if doctors are free to treat us individuals and not bell curves.



I dont what you are imagining but here if there is a drug that is not available from Health Canada, you cannot be denied getting it yourself. That is how marijuanna made it under the fence here. Charter says that Health Canada cannot deny Canadians access to medicine. Supreme court rules marijuanna is a medicine. It basically decriminalized black market marijuanna because Health Canada did not have any other way to supply it themselves.

If you dont like your family doctor then get a new one. They are still a business and want to keep yours here but they dont get paid like movie stars is all.




posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: yesyesyes

They get away with that because they underpay and foist the cost off on the rest of us which is why most of us pay so much ... same with Medicaid.

In order to convert the entire system to that, they would have to institute price controls which would be a bad thing.



That is not accurate at all. Medicare is a PAYER SYSTEM that sub contracts it's administration to a third party. The third party is required to administrate and reimburse doctors and hospitals at the rates Medicare determines. It pays doctors more than over half of private insurers do and Medicare saves people because because the sub contractor has to make do with lesser money.

Private insurers charge more because they prop up investor demands, executives and they usually spend tons on marketing too.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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There is a whole public/private bureaucracy that skims money off the us healthcare system.

the aca helped poor who could get on medicaid while in many instances slamming working/low middle classes.

I talked to a co-worker who had his 300/month out of his pocket go to 700/month with his employer paying half so 1400/month or as he said, more than his mortgage and car payment combined. he just pays the fine.

I'd prefer free market, but the current system needs to be nuked. universal medicaid will be a step up from this.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: forkedtongue
They can keep their BS and leave me alone thnx!


Well me too that is why I do not rely on either being forced to participate or not. If you are forced that means you have nothing else, so I would say you are not doing it right, and if you have nothing else, well you get what you deserve..lol

For me most of it is moot, but then Obamacare has cost me more, but then that is moot too. That is the best place to be when it doesn't matter who is president or what that person does. My 8 years under Obama has been great, but we both know 80% of america been hurting. If you want freedom you need to make it yourself or just get in line with everyone else.
edit on 17-1-2016 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: jellyrev

and he pays the fine so others can have subsidized healthcare. It is wrong. This takes away choice. Health is not a right. It is a choice. Putting the government in charge of it would simply be giving them more control.

There is no competition right now. If you have BCBS in Texas it could cost more than in NY or UHC in California is different then SC.However, I cannot contact another state to get insurance.

The SCOTUS already upheld the ACA which nullified the Commerce Act of the Constitution. However, this seems to not apply to the single payer mandate that is now called what it was made to be all along. A tax.

The only way to bring down prices is to break the monopoly.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:07 PM
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I wonder what the life med cut off would be in order to keep the system solvent, they would ALREADY favor your being dead by 75.
Have you been tracking VA health care?
Brilliant surgeons would be reduced to what,Mechanics on govt GS ratings?
edit on 17-1-2016 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:13 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: forkedtongue
They can keep their BS and leave me alone thnx!


Well me too that is why I do not rely on either being forced to participate or not. If you are forced that means you have nothing else, so I would say you are not doing it right, and if you have nothing else, well you get what you deserve..lol

For me most of it is moot, but then Obamacare has cost me more, but then that is moot too. That is the best place to be when it doesn't matter who is president or what that person does. My 8 years under Obama has been great, but we both know 80% of america been hurting. If you want freedom you need to make it yourself or just get in line with everyone else.


Or option number 3, leave me alone and let me live my life free of their idiotic hoops dog and pony shows and all other associated burocratic nonsense....

Why is that the one option they can't ever seem to consider?



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: greencmp



Really, at least pretend to be objective, it would help lend credibility.


You have been here long enough to know that certain people have preconceived or partisan ideas that will not be changed through debate.

If these people wanted answers why not do the research and actually add something to the conversation. I mean anyone actually interested in finding an answer should be able to search for it and share it.

I just found the lame I heard that before about as informative as used tp.



I know all too well, I just opened up a pandora's box myself that I can't close.

It's not certain people either, it's everybody and there is a perfectly hopeless explanation for it that virtually guarantees the end of civilization.

I'm trying not to let it make me give up.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:17 PM
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originally posted by: forkedtongue

Why is that the one option they can't ever seem to consider?


I do not know, I wish it was that way... maybe if you become an illegal alien in another country...lol As I said, if you do not make your own freedom you will not have much...

Too big of a fed government that become our overload and doesn't let States run themselves based on the people of the state. The problem is most of America wants the big brother to do it all for us and not just do it themselves, so when Hillary takes over for Obama there is no one to blame but the american people. Don't blame Government, blame the 60% around you who wants the Government we have.

edit on 17-1-2016 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:38 PM
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While it sounds good, I seriously doubt the math will work. It sounds as if Everyone will pay less by quite a bit and get relatively Unlimited care. I'd really have to see the numbers, they just don't seem to add up. I'm pretty convinced the whole health industry racket won't ever let prices get reasonable again. Can't be much worse than what is currently going on, but I've never been a fan of trusting my government to come in on or under budget.
edit on 17-1-2016 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: [post=20269501]forkedtongue[/

post]

Why is that the one option they can't ever seem to consider?


I do not know, I wish it was that way... maybe if you become an illegal alien in another country...lol As I said, if you do not make your own freedom you will not have much...

Too big of a fed government that become our overload and doesn't let States run themselves based on the people of the state. The problem is most of America wants the big brother to do it all for us and not just do it themselves, so when Hillary takes over for Obama there is no one to blame but the american people. Don't blame Government, blame the 60% around you who wants the Government we have.


Unfortunately, I agree, and do believe we have the government that the people want....

Sad state of affairs there really.

Guess I am just one of the types that would have moved to the frontier or new world back when there still existed such a thing.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:43 PM
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Ridiculous. I hope nobody is stoopit enough to fall in for this socialist BS.

I've seen socialized medicine work. It actually can. Unfortunately, it's a 30% cost to your paycheck on a national scale. The 0bamaCare blow hasn't actually landed yet. But, the RINOs are gonna make sure it does. Think of the power they will wield when they outright own 30% of what your 'real income' should be.

The problem with healthcare in America is that there simply aren't enough doctors. There aren't enough school programs producing doctors. Check it out. There's only a 15% acceptance rate for medical school. That's right ... 85% of ALL applicants are rejected. No telling how many people aren't even bothering to apply who would if the acceptance rates were better.

Once you've seen this with your own eyes, ask yourself who is controlling these percentage rates. This is where you'll find the Progressives hard at work stifling progress. LOL It's all been divvied up already.

The Progressives got the education system and the Conservatives got insurance.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:43 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

I just got through reading his whole plan on his website, (including his income tax rate proposals) and overall I think it sounds great!

After I got through reading, the only real question I had, has to do with their stated annual insurance cost for a "family" vs an employer's stated annual insurance cost for a employee with the same "family."

I'm assuming they're talking about a family of four, but even if they're not, why is a employer currently paying twice as much to insure the same "family?"

There's probably a valid reason for those figures being part of their explanation, but if I had the chance to ask Bernie a question regarding his publicized plan, that would be it.

This is about finally standing up against the pharmaceutical and private health insurance special interest lobby as a people and demanding that our best interest come before their need to produce profits year over year in a never ending quest to satisfy their shareholders.

Private healthcare insurance providers are nothing more than "middlemen" passing money along from the hands of the patient to the provider of the care and the primary source of their profit comes from denying claims and/or limiting coverage.

They limit your coverage by increasing deductibles and they all have entire departments who's sole purpose for existence is to look for any reason that would "legally" justify their complete denial of your claim.

When it comes to big pharma, they will finally have to negotiate with us as a single group 300 million strong and for anyone out there who thinks that good things can't be accomplished when people ban together, (the way unions used to do) well, you're in for an eye opener.

Our current system is an absolute scam of the highest order and it's high time we take those perpetuating the greed, out of the picture when it comes to universal healthcare.

Go Bernie!

edit on 17-1-2016 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:43 PM
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originally posted by: pavil
While it sounds good, I seriously doubt the math will work. It sounds as if Everyone will pay less by quite a bit and get relatively Unlimited care. I'd really have to see the numbers, they just don't seem to add up. I'm pretty convinced the whole health industry racket won't ever let prices get reasonable again. Can't be much worse than what is currently going on, but I've never been a fan of trusting my government to come in on or under budget.


The scariest words in the English language.
- I'm from the government, and I'm here to help-Ronald Reagan



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

This was how it started in European, or say in Germany or Sweden too. Moderate social security mandatory cost on payroll, both employer and employee - and if you were self employed or an entrepreneur you paid both.

So, after a while, the great socialist state discovers this being an unlimited supply of tax money, and raises the %'s from modest 8% total, to a more lucrative 40%. For social security alone.

And a total tax burden in those "socialistic" states - 85-90%. That is where this road will end up leading each and everyone - exept those wealthy enough not to need to work, and who can enjoy financial income only.

So, yet again, the best friend for elite 1% is - socialist.



posted on Jan, 17 2016 @ 11:57 PM
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originally posted by: deckdel
a reply to: AlaskanDad

This was how it started in European, or say in Germany or Sweden too. Moderate social security mandatory cost on payroll, both employer and employee - and if you were self employed or an entrepreneur you paid both.

So, after a while, the great socialist state discovers this being an unlimited supply of tax money, and raises the %'s from modest 8% total, to a more lucrative 40%. For social security alone.

And a total tax burden in those "socialistic" states - 85-90%. That is where this road will end up leading each and everyone - exept those wealthy enough not to need to work, and who can enjoy financial income only.

So, yet again, the best friend for elite 1% is - socialist.



Implementing Medicare for all is not the same thing. Medicare will negotiate for the lower prices and reimbursements.

Plus we will get to spend our money on other things, instead of stuffing the pockets of middlemen, we will save and pay doctors directly.



posted on Jan, 18 2016 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: greencmp

Good Luck with Pandora!

I must say the quality of the posts in this thread has gone up since the first page.

One of the biggest problems, be it for socialized medicine or anything else that is socialized i.e. schools; our society has been taught to think of ones self, don't worry about others, just take care of yourself. Because of this we are suffering through a society of individuals who think only of themselves.

I read of a Hillary supporter, who is not happy, Sanders wants her to pay for other peoples medical, she is about to retire and does not need any more taxes. Rather than think of the good Sanders care could do for millions of Americans, she misses the big picture and turns it around to being about her.



posted on Jan, 18 2016 @ 12:14 AM
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originally posted by: Snarl
Ridiculous. I hope nobody is stoopit enough to fall in for this socialist BS.


It works when you have a smaller population and a good amount of that population is active in the working force, also when the Government takes in more money than just taxes, such as they own and operate the energy industry of the country.

When you look at America you will see more and more not in the work force but should be and the Government takes in taxes only, so someone got to pay for it all and it will be the hard working person who is just trying to make good. I wish it was only 30% taxes at that point...lol



posted on Jan, 18 2016 @ 12:19 AM
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originally posted by: yesyesyes

Implementing Medicare for all is not the same thing. Medicare will negotiate for the lower prices and reimbursements.

Plus we will get to spend our money on other things, instead of stuffing the pockets of middlemen, we will save and pay doctors directly.


Whatever it is it needs to take down the cost of insurance inflated costs. I spent 6 days in the Hospital and the bill was 52,000, same care in another country might have been 2,000.



posted on Jan, 18 2016 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

I am opposed to socioeconomic interventionism and all forms of experimental social engineering.

So when I hear the "let's see what happens" argument I can't help but imagine how one would come back from what could become little more than human husbandry.

After all, if our individual lives are to be directed by a central authority, what kind of people shall be prescribed? Scientists, caregivers, soldiers? Or perhaps something entirely unimagined and unimaginable.



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