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Would you support social engineering aimed at reforming Islam?

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posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

You must not have heard of the crusades, because what I just said is recorded history. I didn't mention anything but the crusades. But if you feel the needto one up me, I hope it bbrought you peace. You don't like Muslims or Arabs very much, huh? Do you know any? Have any hurt you? Like, were you violently assaulted by one and seek to demean them as a sort of revenge. All the Muslims I know, even if I don't like them, are good people trying to live life in peace and the ones in this country have the same dreams every immigrant society had. To live in peace, make a living, and have a good life. Have you ever been to the middle east, I mean, you know so much about Arab culture you must have.




posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: Gnosisisfaith


If you think Islam is to blame for the state of the middle east, and America is this harmless dove who never causes trouble, you are asleep.


The region has been messed up since the the Semitic tribes drove the Sumerians out of their cities. The most recent round of agony started with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which, as I said above, was the dawning of the Islamic Reformation. France and England drew some lines on a map and it has been chaos ever since. The United States does indeed have blood on its hands. Where have I ever denied that?


Remember that invasion of Iraq, done under a false pretense, that is why that area is #ed up.


Ah, so Saddam gassing the Kurds was okay. Mass executions in soccer stadiums in Iran were okay. Slave auctions in Saudi Arabia are still okay. Please, please stop buying the propaganda and look at the world objectively; if you do not, you may find yourself driving around in a white pickup truck looking for girls to beat up.


Stop pretending you know what happens in the world when you're oh so obviously clueless.


You have demonstrated no understanding of history, politics, or Islamic dogma. Your faith seems entirely predicated on anger.


Social engineering? I say it again, its spiritual eugenics we are talking about. Junk science. Even sounds like a nazi term. I can picture Hitler preaching social engineering.


Which is why I oppose it, as you would know if you actually bothered to read my posts. Religion is, first and foremost, social engineering. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not lie.


Fix your life. Worry about your problems.


Repeat this looking in a mirror.


This premise isvthe religious equivalent of racism.


As is confusing the political conflict between Israel and its neighbors with religious issues. It doesn't matter whether most Israelis are Jews, they have a secular government.


Try suggesting that about another cause, one it can actually help.


So now that evil Nazi eugenics can actually be of benefit in certain situations? I disagree. Social change can only come from within; otherwise it is insincere and superficial.


Whoever created this post is a biggot.


I don't know that. He seems concerned about the welfare of the innocent people being murdered in the name of Islam. Are you concerned about them? The cartoonist, tourists, African girls? Are you okay with atrocities being done in the name of your religion?


Suggest it about something besides religion, as they are autonomous under US law and you can't legally do anything about that. We have separation of church and state just for that reason and it is un American to suggest imposing on anyone's religion. And illegal. Your basically a criminal.


Wow, the irony is strong in this one. Why do we have separation of Church and State in this country? Why is that a good thing? Now, where do you find countries that do not have that freedom? In the Islamic world. So called "Political Islam" is poison. It is a reactionary force that is tearing the ummah apart.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: Gnosisisfaith


You must not have heard of the crusades, because what I just said is recorded history.


Apparently it is the only history you know. The Crusades had absolutely no effect on Islam. So some Ferenghi occupied a few castles in the Levant for a few decades. Big deal. The important action was on the Iberian peninsula, where the savage Franks drove the peace loving Saracens back across the Med, and the Balkans, where Islamic expansion into Europe was eventually halted.


I didn't mention anything but the crusades.


I noticed.


But if you feel the needto one up me, I hope it bbrought you peace.


I am trying to educate you. You need to learn more about your adopted religion and its history. The Islamic Reformation is happening now, and it is destroying Syria and causing a diaspora which may lead to the religion dying out by the end of the century if Muslims don't learn how to adapt.


You don't like Muslims or Arabs very much, huh?


Only the ones who preach hate.


Do you know any?


Quite a few; in fact, my cousin is married to one.


Have any hurt you? Like, were you violently assaulted by one and seek to demean them as a sort of revenge.


Has that been your experience with Jews and Christians?


All the Muslims I know, even if I don't like them, are good people trying to live life in peace and the ones in this country have the same dreams every immigrant society had. To live in peace, make a living, and have a good life.


Yes, that has been my experience as well. Hopefully, when the Reformation comes to an end, that will be true for all Muslims.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:45 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Blind hatred is not good



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: DJW001

Blind hatred is not good


I agree. Let go of yours. Go back and actually read the exchange over the past few pages. I have been trying to convince you to help your religion survive. You have been spouting hatred towards Christians and Jews while denying the state of your own religion. Islam was once a glorious civilization; now it is synonymous with misogyny and terror. There is nothing I can do about that, but you can. Work with your local mosque to help the people who have been forced to seek refuge adapt to their new society. Educate yourself in Islamic history and doctrine so you cannot be manipulated by the false imams who want to kindle hatred by blaming "crusaders" for all the world's woes.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: DJW001

Islamaphobe hater. Why r u so mad? They have people you can talk to about your anger/hatred/fear of a religion. It's essentially an idea, incapable of harming you. I really pity you. I would hate to be so full of...hate. We have good medicine in America, couple pills and youll be rational in no time.


You are the one who needs to seek help. Hatred burns so hotly in you that you cannot even see compassion when it reaches out to you. Please, please actually read what I have written and try to understand it. The same for the fool who has been giving you stars for your ranting.
edit on 19-1-2016 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 08:42 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 08:50 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

You have already revealed too much personal information.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: eletheia

Ever heard of the crusades? The inquisition? According to Christianity, God had to have his son murdered before he would fogive sin.


The crusades c.950 - c1350 Thought you may like to familiarise yourself...

www.usna.edu...

God did not have his son murdered, He gave his people free will

to sin or not to sin.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Frankly, i would support social engineering initiative aimed at reforming all Human religious beliefs...and probably treat those 'fundamental' within religions, all religions, as being unfortunate victims of severe delusional mental illness...being there are plenty of religious fundamentalists, hence severely mentally ill people (in my opinion) in the world, mine is a point of view that isn't going to be popular.

In short...socially engineer the position among the world's population, that to be a fundamental religious believer is the same thing as having a severe mental disorder requiring specialist medical attention.

Not popular, but there it is.


edit on 19 1 2016 by MysterX because: removed and replaced certain portions of the post



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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***** ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS *****

The personal attacks and off topic comments will stop now. Discuss the issue without resorting to calling your fellow members names and attacking their intelligence.

Continuing to post in this manner will result in post removals and will seriously jeopardize your membership here.

***** Do Not Reply To This Post *****

edit on 1/19/2016 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: eletheia

1099 was the start of the crusades. Gods plan was to crucify Jesus. He did, satan helped. Social engineering is a despicable prospect as a whole. Very nazi sounding term. Islam is a religion, essentially a philosophy, consisting of thoughts and words. Reform isn't necessary for Islam. Change for the better is something everyone needs. By all means tell some muslims to do as you wish. It won't work. It wouldn't work for or on any religion. People are the heart of anything social, and if they have flaws they should work on changing them. If all Muslims were bad people, then maybe Islam could be the problem. But most Muslims are good people.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 05:15 PM
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a reply to: DJW001

Some kind of veiled threat?



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: DJW001

Some kind of veiled threat?


No, a friendly reminder. We need to keep the discussion impersonal and polite.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

That is very true, I agree, Islam will not reform until it can allow itself to be superseded by the laws of men, a solution to this will be if the host countries that are receiving immigrants from Islamic theocratic countries will ban in their laws certain aspect of Islam like Sharia and make it illegal within their borders, this will ensure that Islamic followers will still be able to worship the religion but without the laws that bring division and radicalism.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith


1099 was the start of the crusades.


C.950 according to the link ... verified by someone with more knowledge of

it than me, and very probably you!



Gods plan was to crucify Jesus. He did, satan helped. Social engineering is a despicable prospect as a whole.


*Chinese whispers* ... a tale handed down more than 2000 years ago. I am a

realist, in your terms a non believer. People cant remember with accuracy

100 years ago never mind 2000 years ago, and as for knowing what went on in

their minds. LOL!!



Very nazi sounding term. Islam is a religion, essentially a philosophy, consisting of thoughts and words. Reform isn't necessary for Islam.


That is your opinion However there are very many people who don't agree

with you. Where as most other religions have moved with the times, updated

improved as science and people have progressed, Islam is still wallowing in the

middle ages.



Change for the better is something everyone needs.


Islam doesn't appear to agree with that statement it hasn't changed in centuries!



By all means tell some muslims to do as you wish. It won't work. It wouldn't work for or on any religion. If all Muslims were bad people, then maybe Islam could be the problem. But most Muslims are good people.


Just watched a programme on C4. *The Jihadist next door* a documentary

made in London. I was horrified at the behaviour, the aggression, blatant

lies (taqiyya) and the fact that they were fighting each other!!

edit on 19-1-2016 by eletheia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:26 PM
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It's certainly true that our repeated attempts at diplomacy with the predominantly Islamic regions have failed, time after time.......... And even if they agree to something, it usually turns out it was signed on April Fool's day or something, because they seem to not honor agreements.



posted on Jan, 19 2016 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
It's certainly true that our repeated attempts at diplomacy with the predominantly Islamic regions have failed, time after time.......... And even if they agree to something, it usually turns out it was signed on April Fool's day or something, because they seem to not honor agreements.


I remember something from/during the Bush "W" presidential campaign. I listened to a lot of talk radio then, XM.

Cultural "experts" (more then one, and no I can't remember names), said - - you can not fight an ideology from the top down - - you can only fight it from the ground up. They said attacking the middle east would be a disaster and only cause those of the same ideology to band together as a solid force - - whether they agree with the politics or not.

In other words - - change has to come from within. Those of Islam would need to see the need for change themselves.




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