EU shock as 'out' vote sweeps 6% ahead!

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm confused, the Daily Mail thinks that Boris Johnson is actually a vote raiser...clearly they are asking only a very limited demographic if that's the case. A very, very limited demographic. Probably just Daily Mail readers in fact. Ewww.

Boris Johnson might not be the most intouch or nicest of people.

But when it comes to buisness and the economy only a biased fool would ignore what he says.

Or only a biased fool who thinks business is what drives an economy would agree with him. Depends where you're standing.

?????

Business IS what drives a economy!

I mean what else does? The economy centers around money and money only comes from business?

You clearly have never studied economics, otherwise you would get that what you say is a joke.

Who starts businesses? Who is employed by business? Who does business serve?

Do you need me to start with the basics? Supply and demand?

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: crazyewok
I think the Eurotards are worried that if the UK leaves it will shatter there illusion of control and when we do fine and the EU continues to sink other countrys will jump ship!

We have never been all in because we have retained the independence of our currency, and due to that independence we have had to make other compromises in order to justify our continued membership with special rules just for us. As workers, the protection we receive as members of the EU is far greater than those we receive as UK citizens alone. Employers may be better off but whether that is filtered down to the worker is a matter of contention. European subsidies are essential in some areas of the economy. Large landowners may be better off, but small scale farmers will suffer from the lack of grants that help them to manage their land sustainably. Boris represents the Sterling set, and I agree we should keep it, it is important leverage in our physical seperateness from the mainland, but not at the loss of the protections, both individual and global, that our allegiance with Europe, economically and environmentally, provides to us. The EU most definately has short comings, but we can only work to improve those by remaining in the system and in ensuring that we are proportionally represented with the EU. We cannot avoid that our alliance with Europe is important to our own security, both in terms of food and in more general terms, and our fates are tied together whether we like it or not...unless we consider the only issue to be of importance is our ability to continue to control trade via currency, that will only ever protect us for so long, and it is only a protection for some, the traders, the rest of us are just cannon fodder for when the worms turn.

Canada, Australia and New Zeland do fine with workers/human rights ect and Food wont dry up because we leave the EU that is Nonsense. Nor will I stay "in" because of what some small scale farmers may have happen.

Sorry but "OUT" !

originally posted by: crazyewok
Canada, Australia and New Zeland do fine with workers/human rights ect and Food wont dry up because we leave the EU that is Nonsense. Nor will I stay "in" because of what some small scale farmers may have happen.

Sorry but "OUT" !

Well, Australia, due to not having restrictions placed on how land is used is losing massive amounts of productive land to desert...Canada and NZ I haven't personally looked at. But what natural resources are available to those economies are key to how well they do or don't do. Our major export is financial services, admittedly, that is the basis of our economy, but that is also why we are dependent on the EU, and our other trading partners, to fulfill our other needs.

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm confused, the Daily Mail thinks that Boris Johnson is actually a vote raiser...clearly they are asking only a very limited demographic if that's the case. A very, very limited demographic. Probably just Daily Mail readers in fact. Ewww.

Boris Johnson might not be the most intouch or nicest of people.

But when it comes to buisness and the economy only a biased fool would ignore what he says.

Or only a biased fool who thinks business is what drives an economy would agree with him. Depends where you're standing.

?????

Business IS what drives a economy!

I mean what else does? The economy centers around money and money only comes from business?

You clearly have never studied economics, otherwise you would get that what you say is a joke.

Who starts businesses? Who is employed by business? Who does business serve?

Do you need me to start with the basics? Supply and demand?

O look the typical EU supporter in there full colours. Trying act the intellectual.

Sorry but Demand can be there but unless an area is conducive to business and economic growth the money won’t flow in.

Look at Africa? Lots of people. But very little growth and money because the instability of those country’s is not beneficial to business so there so there is little investment.

originally posted by: Anaana
Our major export is financial services, admittedly, that is the basis of our economy, but that is also why we are dependent on the EU, and our other trading partners, to fulfill our other needs.

Again bollocks.

International Trade won’t stop because we leave the EU.

They cannot afford to stop selling us goods any more than we can afford to stop buying.

Really? Why the hell will a company based in the EU stop selling to the UK if we are still willing to buy? We have the money, they have the goods.

Worst case is there is a price rise of a few percent or two because of tariffs but even that is doubtful.

originally posted by: crazyewok
O look the typical EU supporter in there full colours. Trying act the intellectual.

I never said which way I plan on voting, to me personally, who buys locally produced produce, I can only benefit from leaving the EU. My job is secure and not reliant on any subsidies, or dependent on a stable economy. It makes no difference to me whatsoever. One way or another. In the short term.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Sorry but Demand can be there but unless an area is conducive to business and economic growth the money won’t flow in.

Growth should not be a measure of success, particularly not these days, and really that mode of thinking is outdated, most political brokers are moving towards stability before growth. Growth at all costs leads to boom and bust economics, which only benefit the already stabilised.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Look at Africa? Lots of people. But very little growth and money because the instability of those country’s is not beneficial to business so there so there is little investment.

There is lots of investment in Africa, Tanzania has bucket loads of investment because it has much needed by the west productive farm land. Lack of stability elsewhere is largely due to destabilising tactics by foreign interests which assist in pushing up the price of resources like oil, diamonds, minerals and gold, as well as encouraging criminality and black market economies.

originally posted by: Anaana
The EU most definately has short comings, but we can only work to improve those by remaining in the system and in ensuring that we are proportionally represented with the EU.

Again bollocks.

The EU as already shown little enthusiasm to change or reform.

Its bucks and resists any attempt to reform or change.

And its out of control bureaucracy pretty much guarantees change will be slow, rare, hard and likely impossible.

Speaking as a total outsider with no real dog in the fight, I would say put it up to the vote, will of the people, and let the chips fall where they may.

I can't see the rest of the EU declaring some form of war, economic or other, over this. Kinda counter productive. Not to mention the UK has a rather formidable ally just across the Atlantic who will be watching events rather closely. Should the vote go through in favor, any untoward actions by the EU towards Britannia would be frowned upon...with ramifications of some sort.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Worst case is there is a price rise of a few percent or two because of tariffs but even that is doubtful.

A few percent soon mounts up over a myriad of "needs".

originally posted by: seagull
Should the vote go through in favor, any untoward actions by the EU towards Britannia would be frowned upon...with ramifications of some sort.

I'd rather put my lot in with Russia, if you don't mind, US value system is not really going to help matters and can, and does, only make things worse.

Thanks all the same.

originally posted by: Anaana


Growth should not be a measure of success, particularly not these days, and really that mode of thinking is outdated, most political brokers are moving towards stability before growth. Growth at all costs leads to boom and bust economics, which only benefit the already stabilised.

True but you still need some growth.

If your population is expanding you need growth to accommodate that and create the jobs for them.

originally posted by: Anaana

There is lots of investment in Africa, Tanzania has bucket loads of investment because it has much needed by the west productive farm land. Lack of stability elsewhere is largely due to destabilising tactics by foreign interests which assist in pushing up the price of resources like oil, diamonds, minerals and gold, as well as encouraging criminality and black market economies.

Im not talking about the causes if instability. The fact is many country’s are instable and because of that people are less likely to invest.

Now there are some examples like Kenya and Tanzania who have started getting there act together and because of that there economy’s are modernizing and growing. Which proves my point that countrys that are stable attract investment that creates business that helps economic growth.

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: seagull
Should the vote go through in favor, any untoward actions by the EU towards Britannia would be frowned upon...with ramifications of some sort.

I'd rather put my lot in with Russia, if you don't mind, US value system is not really going to help matters and can, and does, only make things worse.

Thanks all the same.

Speak for youself.


UK has far more in common with the USA than it has with Europe or Russia.


Though if we leave the EU I hope the UK hedges its bets between the USA and China

a reply to: Anaana

Personally, IMHO, you are really giving Russian far too much credit. Might wanna check that out a bit more closely before giving that sainthood...

...and like it or not, the alliance between the United States, and England would bring some sort of reaction. It's the nature of the relationship between the two nations. ...and that's not going to change anytime soon. Nor should it.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Again bollocks.

The EU as already shown little enthusiasm to change or reform.

Its bucks and resists any attempt to reform or change.

And its out of control bureaucracy pretty much guarantees change will be slow, rare, hard and likely impossible.

What would be an example of "out of control bureaucracy"? Not being picky, just it's a huge area, EU legislature, and being so general doesn't really inform the discussion, a more specific example would be beneficial.

a reply to: crazyewok

Though if we leave the EU I hope the UK hedges its bets between the USA and China

That'd probably be wise. Though I see China having some chickens coming home to roost over the next decade or two. But one never knows what the future will bring.

There has been one constant in the world politic over the past century...that is the U.S. and the Commonwealth have each others backs. I, for one, really don't like thinking about that not being there. There's something comforting knowing that our brother across the pond will be there. Even if they do think were ever so slightly bonkers at times. But that's alright, we think you are too.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Speak for youself.

Thanks, I am.

originally posted by: crazyewok
UK has far more in common with the USA than it has with Europe or Russia.

Yes, because of common economic methods, destabilising foreign economies in order to place despots that can be controlled and who will sign exclusive trade agreements. I think the US, given their largely European immigrant stock, could pretty much get on with anyone in Europe, but not everyone in Europe is willing to do business on those terms.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Though if we leave the EU I hope the UK hedges its bets between the USA and China

What if the US hedges it's bets between China and us though? What exactly have we got to defend ourselves other than American grown cannon fodder?

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Anaana

Personally, IMHO, you are really giving Russian far too much credit. Might wanna check that out a bit more closely before giving that sainthood...

...and like it or not, the alliance between the United States, and England would bring some sort of reaction. It's the nature of the relationship between the two nations. ...and that's not going to change anytime soon. Nor should it.

It's not about liking it or not, I have nothing against the American people, I know that for the most part you are wonderful, I have an issue with US foreign and economic policy.

a reply to: Anaana

Examples
Stupid bans on consumer products like above for starters.

Sure some had some good intentions behind them like for energy efficiency’s. But its just pathed the way for more pathetic and nit pickly bans and regulations.

And half these intefeering bans have back fired eg:

European bureaucrats have used Ecodesign regulations to ban dozens of products, including the incandescent light bulb, which has been outlawed in all EU countries. As of September 1, 2012, hundreds of millions of EU citizens—who were never consulted on the issue—have been required to buy energy-efficient fluorescent lamps, which contain toxic materials such as mercury. Because the EU does not require retailers to take back the new bulbs, 80% end up in household garbage, leaving the mercury to ultimately seep into the soil or groundwater, according to an Austrian documentary film called "Bulb Fiction."

Maybe if the GD fools in brussles had consulted with the public that glareing issue may have been pointed out!

The you have the two years study (and unkown taxpayer money) wasted on how to flush a dammed toliet!


The you have this example :

Arguably the most famous examples of EU over-regulation involve rules on the physical appearance of fruit and vegetables. For example, European Commission Regulation No. 2257/94—also known as the "bendy banana law"—states that all bananas bought and sold in the EU must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature." According to the regulation, "Extra class" bananas must be of "superb quality," while "Class I" bananas can have "slight defects of shape," and "Class II" bananas can have full-on "defects of shape." The document states that the size of the banana is determined by "the grade, i.e. the measurement, in millimeters, of the thickness of a transverse section of the fruit between the lateral faces and the middle, perpendicularly to the longitudinal axis." In the instance of cucumbers, European Commission Regulation No. 1677/88, "Class I" and "Extra class" cucumbers are allowed a bend of 10mm per 10cm of length. "Class II" cucumbers can bend twice as much. Any cucumbers that are curvier may not be bought or sold.

Of course the ban got reversed but after how much money wasted on the idea?


And more sinister:

In May 2013, the European Commission announced the so-called Plant Reproductive Material Law, an Orwellian directive that would make it illegal to "grow, reproduce or trade" any vegetable seeds that have not been "tested, approved and accepted" by a new EU bureaucracy named the EU Plant Variety Agency. The new law would give Brussels authority over all plants and seeds bought and sold in all 28 EU member states, and would prohibit home gardeners from growing their own plants from non-regulated seeds. Critics say the new law is an effort by the EU to gain "total domination of the food supply."

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: crazyewok

Though if we leave the EU I hope the UK hedges its bets between the USA and China

That'd probably be wise. Though I see China having some chickens coming home to roost over the next decade or two. But one never knows what the future will bring.

There has been one constant in the world politic over the past century...that is the U.S. and the Commonwealth have each others backs. I, for one, really don't like thinking about that not being there. There's something comforting knowing that our brother across the pond will be there. Even if they do think were ever so slightly bonkers at times. But that's alright, we think you are too.

Honestly I would much rather leave the EU and see NATO scraped. The have the USA/Commonwealth/UK go off and start their own defensive and economic alliance.

All our economy’s are pretty much on the same level so no job or industry stealing and defence wise as you said we have a long and proven track record of helping each other out. Simply put we have a history of Military and economic trust.


That trust is what was lacking from the EU from the very start.

I know of no one who will be voting to leave come the referendum, no one.
Isolation will save us mentality, they should go find an island with the Scottish independence crowd.