Is the 'Book of Revelation' originally a Jewish Text that was later doctored by 'Christians' ?

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

And you tholught there was a anti Christ,and john is talking about people. That's pretty pathetic

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

further more if you look to where that they talked with Paul about how he was to go gentiles and evangelize.

Actually peter was called by God to go to the gentiles...

Paul just kinda took over

Whats the point? revelation is basically the book of Daniel. in fact other than the letters to the church it summarizes the entire bible from genesis on.

although i have to say when read properly revelation illuminates something that is barely in the bible otherwise. the book actually is organized (sometimes even in a single chapter) so that it starts with the past then goes to the present and near present then goes to the future. because of this you can find out what happened between line one and two of the creation narrative by reading it. people assume the dragon drawing with it's tail is a future event. it isn't. it is the 2nd most ancient event in biblical history.

a reply to: Akragon

Paul was a false prophet

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

Preaching to the choir brother... Im no fan of Pauls eiher...

What im saying is that Peter was called to go to the gentiles...

a reply to: Akragon

i didn't say called, i said talked with paul.

about how he was to go gentiles and evangelize.

and then it is clear in reading the two chapters that i linked that they did indeed send him back with others to preach that they, well here is a passage.

Acts 15 19-22 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from [j]things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since [k]he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.” 19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from [j]things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since [k]he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas—Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 and they [l]sent this letter by them,

people who dismiss paul also dismiss about half or even 2/3s of the entire new testament. a rather perilous thing for a christian to do.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie
How many Apostles are there? Not counting judas

a reply to: stormbringer1701
Oh im real scared... of honoring Jesus and denying the false prophet your the one who should worry u call Jesus a liar

Judas was a disciple. He never survived long enough to be an apostle. but he was replaced by a man chosen by the expedient of drawing straws. So there were already twelve primary apostles when Paul came along though at least one of those had been martyred.

however, the apostles had their own apostles who were actually called apostles or disciples too. The bible does not actually go into much detail of the organization of the church hierarchy but there are verses in the bible that refer to other apostles. and early church writings that were not part of the bible.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: stormbringer1701
Oh im real scared... of honoring Jesus and denying the false prophet your the one who should worry u call Jesus a liar

I think I will let God and Jesus decide if I have called him a liar; thank you very much.

Isn't it interesring that The Gospel of John is the only Gospel which says it was written by "The Beloved Disciple of Christ"? The others are anonymous and Luke was writing what he heard from others. What did "The Beloved Disciple" directly hear Jesus say and quoted in his Gospel?

The Apostles wrote letters/epistles, but they usually don't quote Jesus, nor do they claim to be "The Beloved Disciple".

By the way, The John who wrote his epistle talks the same way that he does in the Gospel of John, but the John of Patmos who wrote revelation, speaks completely differently.


Here is what The Beloved Disciple heard from Jesus Christ (Gospel of John):

13:34 A new commandment I give unto you,
That ye love one another;
as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:
and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

15:11 These things have I spoken unto you,
that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

15:12 This is my commandment,
That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

18:36 Jesus answered,
My kingdom is not of this world:
if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,
that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

a reply to: [post=20266071]stormbringer1701[no you did call Jesus a liar, by accepting a false prophet

a reply to: stormbringer1701
If you think Jesus acknowledged Saul the Pharisee as anything of any significance you call him a liar. Deny it all you want cits still true

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: stormbringer1701
If you think Jesus acknowledged Saul the Pharisee as anything of any significance you call him a liar. Deny it all you want cits still true

o.0
O.o
>.<

uh huh. ok. apparently opinions vary.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

How many Apostles are there? Not counting judas

what's that some sort of Gnostic trick question?
the original number was 12, then fell to 11 until they picked Matthias to take judas place. there is only one place where that Matthias was said to have been with Jesus from his baptistism, that is in Acts.

Paul was never called a apostle by any of the twelve, he was ordained to ministry, in Acts 13, none of the Gospels, Epistle of the twelve in the new testament never calls him a apostle.

he made the claim on his own.

so if you want the original number it was 12 then 13 all together, counting Matthias.


and if you want to get down to who is a Apostle.

Acts 1 21-26 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
21 Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out [t]among us— 22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25 to [v]occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they [w]drew lots for them, and the lot fell [x]to Matthias; and he was [y]added to the eleven apostles.

edit on 16-1-2016 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)