Why believe in a religion created by Politicians?

originally posted by: coomba98
The Bible created by Roman Politicians, politicians, politicians.'

You have no evidence whatsoever for this claim, which destroys the whole basis of the thread.

originally posted by: coomba98
The name of the son is Yeshua, Ha'mashiach. Not Jesus.

The name Jesus is a misdirection, to prevent the prayers and thoughts from reaching the true Ha'mashiach.

Remember revalation speak of two gods and two Christs (Ha'mashiach).

What is the name of the anti-Christ? Jesus.
Not the true Christ called Yeshua Ha'mashiach.

Names dont ttanslate between languaged. Acsents do though but Jesus and Yeshua are totally different.

Like calling Lucifer the Devil. Which is incorrect as the true word is Haylel which is a description not a name. The last one to be called Lucifer is Yeshua the true Christ/Ha'mashiach.

Coomba98 - Mikha'el

"Yeshua is the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Joshua.” Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Jesus.” Thus, the names “Joshua” and “Jesus” are essentially the same; both are English pronunciations of the Hebrew and Greek names for our Lord. (For examples of how the two names are interchangeable, see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 in the KJV. In both cases, the word Jesus refers to the Old Testament character Joshua.)"

www.gotquestions.org...

DISRAELI,
Emperor Constantine was a politician who had senators, aka politicians.
No need to further comment here.

Deetermined,
The names “Joshua” and “Jesus” sound very much alike no? Like a language barrier.
Joshua and Jesus are totally different to the name Yeshua.
Yeshua is spelt in English as.... Yeshua.

Again names don't translate between languages, only the way we pronounce them change. When the Bible was translated into Latin/Greek by the roman politicians Yeshua became Jesus or Joshua in some instances. Totally different names which is acknowledged by two different people. Yeshua and the Devil.

Peter could also be pronounced Patar in some languages.

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98
Emperor Constantine was a politician who had senators, aka politicians.

But there is no evidence whatever that they either created or changed the Bible.

originally posted by: coomba98
The first one called 'Lucifer' in both is the King of Babylon in Isaiah, the other and last Lucifer is in the Christian Bible, who is non other than Yeshua himself, who he calls himself Lucifer in Revelation. So calling the Devil Lucifer is actually calling the Devil the Light Bringer, or bringer of light. Mainly referred to as the Morning Star Venus being the brightest star in the heavens. A metaphor of Yeshua being the brightest being second to Monad the Supreme Being.

Ok re-read that and the Lucifer section is a bad analogy. But will leave it there as there is a point to be made.

Another thing is there is absolutely no mention that the Devil is an angel in the Bible. Even more confusing is if the Devil was an angel how could he rebel if he had no free will? The Devil may have his own angels but they are not the angels of Monad the Supreme Being. Nor does it say the Devil and his angels fell from heaven, this war in heaven has not happened yet. The occurrences of Revelation is still to occur at some unknown date.

Coomba98

Lucifer was not Yeshua.

The Bible refers to Jesus as the Morning Star and Lucifer was the Son of the Morning Star.

Yes, Lucifer was an angel and all angels have free will to either stay in their original habitat or reject God and be cast out of heaven. I'm sure you're familiar with the term "fallen angel".

DISRAELI,
You may need to read up on Christianity and its origin. That's the new Christianity not the old one prior to the creation of the Bible. As prior to this it was just individual manuscripts, which was then reviewed and put together into a book we now call the Bible. All other manuscripts where destroyed.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98

Deetermined,
The names “Joshua” and “Jesus” sound very much alike no? Like a language barrier.
Joshua and Jesus are totally different to the name Yeshua.
Yeshua is spelt in English as.... Yeshua.

Coomba98

No. It is not. Yeshua is not an English name.

originally posted by: coomba98

So Constantine asked for copies of existing books to be made. That, in itself, does nothing to create or change the books themselves. It has no more significance than "ordering a re-print" would do in modern times.

All other manuscripts where destroyed.

This is fantasy. You have provided no evidence for that.

I don't know who Jesus was but I sure like whoever wrote those words and teachings. Love and Knowledge. I believed them when I first read them at nine when I picked up my grandmother's bible. I should have stayed with the Words and skipped the wasted years in church.

originally posted by: coomba98
DISRAELI,
You may need to read up on Christianity and its origin. That's the new Christianity not the old one prior to the creation of the Bible. As prior to this it was just individual manuscripts, which was then reviewed and put together into a book we now call the Bible. All other manuscripts where destroyed.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Coomba98

Except that the wording in the Bible still matches the writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls that were found in the 1940's.

Deetermined,
Where does it say the Devil is Lucifer? Or a fallen angel? No argument the Devil had his own angels but the the Bible never calls them 'fallen angels'.

Also the latin bible says Yeshi called himself Lucifer which is morning star in english.

www.kjv-only.com...

Coomba98

Deetermined,

Incorrect.

Not only is the wording changed but very little of the dead sea scrolls gospels are in the Bible.

Also i agree Yeshua is not an english name. Neither is my fathers name which is Zoran. Here in Australia we call him... Zoran. Or i dad.

A friend of mine is called Kalingar and another Kuda. Here in Australia we call them Kallingar and Kuda.


Coomba98

a reply to: Deetermined

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

Different personalities, different commandments, different beings.

yahweh/jehovah was violent in the OT. The real God is LOVE.

a reply to: coomba98

What part did you miss in your own link where Lucifer is called "son of the morning" and "son of the dawn"? He was not the morning or the dawn itself. I'm not seeing anything that says that Yeshi or Yeshua called himself Lucifer.

a reply to: coomba98

Some people think the additions are a clarification, the bible was likely not the bible at all when it was first written but compiled and sourced from other writings... as there are many borrowed tropes all though out it and other texts that basically boil down to telling the same story but yet have had its own brand of dogmatic words to separate it indistinguishable from what it was borrowed from to stand on its own as something different.

on a side note; Shakespeare was indeed a great writer, simply because he just dictated stories from those that could not write it down. I thought it pertinent to the discussion as modern education is very much different than it once was, and even it contains similar fallacies in how it relays stories that did not even happen as long ago... such as Washington chopping cherry trees and throwing coins across the Delaware such things immortalize otherwise common things by making them legend eventually becoming a myth when checked against actual fact... but then again some of that may just be a metaphor like Christ walking on water could simply mean he was a very good fisherman even though his profession was listed as being a carpenter... that too could be false and simply mean he was great at constructing something not necessarily out of wood. Or Washington's monetary toss was not literal but perhaps funds tossed as aid needed on the other side of it.

So literal and figurative and borrowed is what really needs to be determined, all literal? no all figurative? no. all the details only found in it alone? again no.

To see clearly one must thoroughly inspect and clean the lenses one looks at everything through

Deetermined,
I dont believe you read the full webpage. Dont cherry pick.

Ill copy and paste the different english translations of Lucifer in that particular passege.

And this particular passege refers to the king of Babylon, a human. Not the Devil.

www.kjv-only.com...

'However, here's how the verse appears in some modern translations:
Isaiah 14:12 (NIV) "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (NASB) "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (Young's Literal Translation) "How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations."'

Coomba98

originally posted by: coomba98
Deetermined,

Incorrect.

Not only is the wording changed but very little of the dead sea scrolls gospels are in the Bible.

Coomba98

Do you just make this stuff up?

"Eleven caves were discovered containing nearly 1,100 ancient documents which included several scrolls and more than 100,000 fragments. Fragments from every Old Testament book except for the book of Esther were discovered."

bible.org...

originally posted by: coomba98
Deetermined,
I dont believe you read the full webpage. Dont cherry pick.

Ill copy and paste the different english translations of Lucifer in that particular passege.

www.kjv-only.com...

'However, here's how the verse appears in some modern translations:
Isaiah 14:12 (NIV) "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (NASB) "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (Young's Literal Translation) "How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations."'

Coomba98

I think you just did some cherry picking yourself there. Regardless, Lucifer is still being referred to as the "son of the dawn", not "the dawn". All the other verses in your link say exactly what I did.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Deetermined

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

Different personalities, different commandments, different beings.

yahweh/jehovah was violent in the OT. The real God is LOVE.

While Jesus came to die for our sins so that we have the opportunity to spend eternity with Him (not to mention spreading the gospel of the Kingdom), the Bible makes it very clear what he will be doing when he comes back to judge man and destroy all of God's enemies. Read Revelation 19. Who do you think "Faithful and True" is referring to?

Deetermined,
Sorry getting late here and ive been drinking so forgive my wiki links.

Also I don't make stuff up and present them as truth. Not like that. But that does not mean I can be wrong on occasion.

en.wikipedia.org...
Non-biblical books[edit]
The majority of the texts found among the Dead Sea Scrolls are non-biblical in nature and were thought to be insignificant for understanding the composition or canonization of the Biblical books, but a different consensus has emerged which sees many of these works as being collected by the Essene community instead of being composed by them.[131] Scholars now recognize that some of these works were composed earlier than the Essene period, when some of the Biblical books were still being written or redacted into their final form.

With regards to Lucifer, the English translation are:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!'
or;
"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!'
or;
"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn!'
and lastly;
"How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn!'

So we have 4 translations for Lucifer.
1. Lucifer;
2. Morning Star;
3. Star of the morning; and lastly
4.Shining One.

And that passege relates to the king of Babylon.

--

Bit late in the night, but from memory in the Gnostic texts Yeshua did not die for our sins. He was murdered but the followers of the Devil. The ones he will destroy are the ones who support the Devil. Whether knowingly or not.

Coomba98