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Why Can't American Socialists Come up with a Plan to End Poverty

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posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Nobody would panic.

Especially when the see the check every two weeks for life.

SS does not pay 25,000 a year.





posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

You mention people would be put out of work.

We should get some real numbers.

And don't forget, they get the 25,000 too.

And I'm sure most existing jobs at government levels might not actually go away.

We need exact examples to figure it out.




posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 08:55 PM
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creatures of impulse and desire.
They want this and they want that.
And they just have to have this and they just have to have that.
They are driven by appetites.
They want, the food looks tempting, they eat it, and then they must pay for it.
They want, they buy, and then they are stuck with another financial obligation.
And with each addition to their financial load their job becomes even more important.
It is the only means they have of meeting their obligations
A threat to their job is a threat to their lifeline.
They are on a treadmill.
they borrow, they buy, and they don't think about the paying back.
Driven by wants, they dig holes for themselves that are hard to get out of.
They satisfy their appetites but lose their freedom.
They become slaves to a treadmill of their own making.
If their neighbor has some new gadget, then they want it too.
If their friend has a thing then they also want one.
If some new thing is in fashion and everyone is getting it, then they go out and get one also.

Mind influences mind




posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

300 million x $25,000 = $7,500,000,000,000

You can't afford it.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:09 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Why Can't American Socialists Come up with a Plan to End Poverty

A) Why can't anyone else?

B) There are sufficient resources on Our planet for all to live well, if the selfish and greedy didn't take more than their share!
A billion children starve because of Trump alone!

"Charity is not tossing some spare change in some public ceremony, it is not taking more than your share of anything, ever!
Thus leaving something for your neighbors!

'Charity' is an unconditional Virtue of Unconditional Love!
You cannot legislate or force that!

Maybe we'll be able to 3D-print a burger and fries, but that is a temp fix, at best, without Love and Charity!

There is no Cirque du Freaque Political party going to go there, where we all need to go!



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

I think it has more to do with greedy billionaires taking billions of dollars from the economy and sending it to offshore accounts that can't be taxed than it does social welfare.

Capitalism is all about making more capital (money), it has nothing to do with making things fair for everyone.

What we have now with capitalism is a few people getting the whole pie while the majority get the crumbs that fall from their table.

Welfare is not a bad thing, if jobs paid more there would be no need for welfare. There are plenty of people who work a job yet can't afford to live and are still on welfare anyways. That's because the greedy people who provide the jobs give themselves exorbitant salaries while chipping away at the working class salary.

Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum, that's a myth. I work close to 40 hours a week yet still don't make enough to pay my bills and put food on the table, so I have to resort to food stamps. I'm not the only one either.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I think it has more to do with greedy billionaires taking billions of dollars from the economy and sending it to offshore accounts that can't be taxed than it does social welfare.

Capitalism is all about making more capital (money), it has nothing to do with making things fair for everyone.

What we have now with capitalism is a few people getting the whole pie while the majority get the crumbs that fall from their table.

Welfare is not a bad thing, if jobs paid more there would be no need for welfare. There are plenty of people who work a job yet can't afford to live and are still on welfare anyways. That's because the greedy people who provide the jobs give themselves exorbitant salaries while chipping away at the working class salary.

Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum, that's a myth. I work close to 40 hours a week yet still don't make enough to pay my bills and put food on the table, so I have to resort to food stamps. I'm not the only one either.



*looks around*

Did you mean that comment for me?

If so, why?



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

You said this in reply to my comment:



Capitalism hasn't caused this problem...America's social welfare programs have created generations of families dependent on the social welfare system.


Capitalism is the philosophy of making profit, these billionaires are a result of a capitalist society. Not to say we are the only country with billionaires, but we have by far the most of any other country in the world. Capitalism breeds greed, greed breeds corruption, and corruption breeds poverty.

So yes, capitalism is a big reason for poverty in our country. That's what I was explaining in my response to you.
edit on 1/15/2016 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I think it has more to do with greedy billionaires taking billions of dollars from the economy and sending it to offshore accounts that can't be taxed than it does social welfare.

Capitalism is all about making more capital (money), it has nothing to do with making things fair for everyone.

What we have now with capitalism is a few people getting the whole pie while the majority get the crumbs that fall from their table.

Welfare is not a bad thing, if jobs paid more there would be no need for welfare. There are plenty of people who work a job yet can't afford to live and are still on welfare anyways. That's because the greedy people who provide the jobs give themselves exorbitant salaries while chipping away at the working class salary.

Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum, that's a myth. I work close to 40 hours a week yet still don't make enough to pay my bills and put food on the table, so I have to resort to food stamps. I'm not the only one either.



*looks around*

Did you mean that comment for me?

If so, why?


More precisely...I agree with you. So I kind of resent that you wrote a response to me that insinuated you were disputing a non-existent accusation that people making use of social welfare are lazy.

I said nothing of the sort and don't believe that for a moment.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Okay, I was mistaken in your intent. But you did imply social welfare was the cause of poverty, which is not true. If anything capitalism is the cause, not social welfare.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I already agreed in that post that I think the plan would help. But I'm also looking at how people actually act. Just look at how many people flipped out during the negotiations for the Affordable Care Act, even though one of the original plans from socialists & the left wing was to mandate single payer. Single payer is vastly cheaper than what we have both now and before the ACA/Obamacare passed. But people wouldn't see past "lose your current health insurance" long enough to see the "and replace it with Medicare-For-All, which would be cheaper & cover everyone".

And yes, inflation will always exist as long as we have central banking. But there's a difference between inflation and hyper inflation. Without price controls, there is literally nothing to stop landlords and companies from drastically increasing their prices every year (the way universities and colleges do). A current example of this is what happens in communities right now when gentrification policies are enacted. The prices typically skyrocket to the point that the original, "normal" residents simply can't afford to stay there any longer.

And the same goes for places that get massive increases in local revenue, like from oil booms and huge new investment deals. The property prices skyrocket until the former "living wages" are no longer enough to live on. I think the same thing would happen in our current economy if their weren't price controls on the "needs", like electricity, water, average rents, food, etc. Just look into any other examples of hyper inflation to see how drastically it can destroy "income gains". In fact, just look at the drastically lower prices 60 & 70 years ago to see why $25,000 a year is great now, but would be a pittance in the coming decades. (Yearly increases would help, but not if we experience hyper inflation.)



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: MotherMayEye

You said this in reply to my comment:



Capitalism hasn't caused this problem...America's social welfare programs have created generations of families dependent on the social welfare system.


Capitalism is the philosophy of making profit, these billionaires are a result of a capitalist society. Not to say we are the only country with billionaires, but we have by far the most of any other country in the world. Capitalism breeds greed, greed breeds corruption, and corruption breeds poverty.

So yes, capitalism is a big reason for poverty in our country. That's what I was explaining in my response to you.


Greed will exist under any economic system.

Money motivates excellence -- like it or not.

The wealthy elite do not want the poor to be educated and trained to compete with them in a free-market society. They use a miserable-type social welfare system to make sure the poor stay poor and unable to compete.

Generations of families dependent on that system are a testament to this fact.

These families are not lazy nor are they stupid. They are just ill-equipped to compete in a capitalist society thanks to a system that abuses them.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Okay, I was mistaken in your intent. But you did imply social welfare was the cause of poverty, which is not true. If anything capitalism is the cause, not social welfare.


I oppose a mixed system of capitalism and socialism that oppresses the poor.

Those profiting from capitalism use a crappy social welfare system to ensure they don't compete with poor people who have all the potential and brains to compete.

You cannot solely blame capitalism, you cannot solely blame socialism...it's the crappy mix we have in the U.S.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

I wish I could star this post 100 times! "Work or die" is a foolish concept, especially in a supposedly wealthy & advanced society.

"Compete over crumbs then die off when you can't keep up" is an equally foolish & heartless concept. Unfortunately, I'm convinced that a lot of people enjoy seeing other people suffer, which explains our current system.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

I totally agree with you, but capitalism (the philosophy of making profit) has caused these billionaires to become as wealthy as they are which in turn has made them abuse the very system that made them wealthy. Welfare is only as big as it is because of those who siphon the money away from those on welfare by the capitalist (profit based) philosophy they operate on.

Capitalism is the cause of poverty in our country, as are other economic systems around the world to their respective countries.
edit on 1/15/2016 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:55 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Ok, I understand now. I apologize for the misunderstanding.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen






*children under 18:
*get savings bonds (every 2 weeks) until 18, then a check.
*bonds held in Treasury safekeeping account.
*available at 18.


This is where it would break down - the Funds would utimatly be raided by the Govt to balance the books




1. Eliminate all Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA medical, and most (or all) welfare.


WHat about all those currently on some of these benefits, do they pay for all medical bills out of their $25,000? It'll be gone in a few days, judging by the cost of Healthcare in the US



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 10:01 PM
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I have not read your entire thread,but to answer your question...
The socialists and TPTB are the ones responsible for keeping the masses in poverty.
"They" like to give the appearance of helping the poor but their actions say something
different.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: xuenchen






*children under 18:
*get savings bonds (every 2 weeks) until 18, then a check.
*bonds held in Treasury safekeeping account.
*available at 18.


This is where it would break down - the Funds would utimatly be raided by the Govt to balance the books




1. Eliminate all Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA medical, and most (or all) welfare.


WHat about all those currently on some of these benefits, do they pay for all medical bills out of their $25,000? It'll be gone in a few days, judging by the cost of Healthcare in the US

There's a part in the OP after #2 which says "automatic enroll in private minimum health insurance policy covering everything." I'm a little confused how a "private" and "minimum" policy would "cover everything", so I'm just pretending it reads "minimum cost health care policy, like single payer, which covers everything relatively cheaply, like Medicare".



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 10:02 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Ok, I understand now. I apologize for the misunderstanding.


And I apologize for being so resentful.



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