Forcing the issue of Natural Born Citizenship: How to get standing to have the question resolved.

Some people refuse to accept the reality that Obama is a natural born US citizen, so they try and make up stories how his documents are forgeries etc.

I wonder when they start making up false claims about Cruz?

originally posted by: hellobruce
Some people refuse to accept the reality that Obama is a natural born US citizen, so they try and make up stories how his documents are forgeries etc.

I wonder when they start making up false claims about Cruz?

If you are referencing me and insinuating that I am making anything up, please do contact the Hawaii Department of Health yourself and ask them about the open records requests I sent them and their responses first.

At least I had the hutzpuh to do that before making any claims.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I referred to it as "the seal impression visible in the attached photographs," and I attached the photographs.

You asked for "requested a copy of their official seal DEBOSSMENT"

It was not debossed, it was embossed. You were confused, and they did not know what you were on about!

They answered " Regarding the remainder of your request, we have no records responsive to your request.""

So they had nothing on the debossing you claimed, as it was not debossed but embossed!

Nothing will change the fact Obama is a natural born US citizen, despite false claims of doctored/fake documents.

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I referred to it as "the seal impression visible in the attached photographs," and I attached the photographs.

You asked for "requested a copy of their official seal DEBOSSMENT"

It was not debossed, it was embossed. You were confused, and they did not know what you were on about!

They answered " Regarding the remainder of your request, we have no records responsive to your request.""

So they had nothing on the debossing you claimed, as it was not debossed but embossed!

Wrong.

Completely wrong.

I also sent them the Factcheck photos of the seal and simply asked that they send me a copy of the seal impression in the photos attached to that email.

They stated they "do not maintain the record requested."

I asked six ways to Sunday -- through the course of multiple emails. 'No' to a debossed seal, 'no' to the seal in Factcheck's photographs.

You are in denial. They stated they don't maintain the seal photographed by factcheck.

originally posted by: hellobruce
So they had nothing on the debossing you claimed, as it was not debossed but embossed!

DEBOSSED. And this photo of the BACKSIDE of the seal proves it:




Upside down, right side up -- the BACK of the seal is raised, NOT the front.

The front of the seal shows it is not raised. Get over it. It's not raised:



Nothing you say will ever change these high resolution photos. Plus, I have nearly 20 years of graphic design experience and a BFA. I know what embossing/debossing mean. You are wrong.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Nothing you say will ever change these high resolution photos.

Except this!
www.obamaconspiracy.org...

[

You are wrong.

No, you are, which is why every single birther court case has failed, over 200 of them, no expert has examined Obama's BC and declared it a fake.

Obama's documentation (more than any previous President) is not a forgery or fake, and Obama is a natural born US citizen. You really should just accept the facts.

a reply to: hellobruce

Horrible controlled opposition story that is.

So are all the lawsuits.

All designed to make people automatically think everything is nice and legitimate.

cointeldisinfo

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: hellobruce

Horrible controlled opposition story that is.

Funny how you cannot dispute anything there!

All designed to make people automatically think everything is nice and legitimate.

Well it is, but as we see some people just refuse to accept the facts, that Obama is a natural born US citizen, and the legal POTUS. So they have to try and twist the facts and come up with silly stories.

The same is starting to happen with Cruz!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Nothing you say will ever change these high resolution photos.

Except this!
www.obamaconspiracy.org...

[

You are wrong.

No, you are, which is why every single birther court case has failed, over 200 of them, no expert has examined Obama's BC and declared it a fake.

Obama's documentation (more than any previous President) is not a forgery or fake, and Obama is a natural born US citizen. You really should just accept the facts.

You are sourcing a despicable conspiracy blog. That guy is just mean and nasty. Nothing worth reading there.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: hellobruce

Horrible controlled opposition story that is.

Funny how you cannot dispute anything there!

All designed to make people automatically think everything is nice and legitimate.

Well it is, but as we see some people just refuse to accept the facts, that Obama is a natural born US citizen, and the legal POTUS. So they have to try and twist the facts and come up with silly stories.

The same is starting to happen with Cruz!

Sad you would source that rather than believe your own eyes.

a reply to: hellobruce

The true story of the Obama adoption isn't on the internet.

The records are sealed.



Cruz is possibly in the same quagmire.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
You are sourcing a despicable conspiracy blog. That guy is just mean and nasty.

So as he completely destroys silly conspiracy theories about Obama by simply posting facts he is mean and nasty, but the blog you mentioned as it supports the silly conspiracies is ok!

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: hellobruce

The true story of the Obama adoption isn't on the internet.

As there was no adoption....

The records are sealed.

No, there are no records!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
You are sourcing a despicable conspiracy blog. That guy is just mean and nasty.

So as he completely destroys silly conspiracy theories about Obama by simply posting facts he is mean and nasty, but the blog you mentioned as it supports the silly conspiracies is ok!

The guy is clinging to the hope of an optical illusion (which I already disproved) to make his point.

Come on. Please.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
The guy is clinging to the hope of an optical illusion (which I already disproved) to make his point.

No, you did not disprove it, which is why Obama is the legal POTUS!

You are willing to make and believe any crap so in your mind Obama is not the legal POTUS. very sad.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
The guy is clinging to the hope of an optical illusion (which I already disproved) to make his point.

No, you did not disprove it, which is why Obama is the legal POTUS!

You are willing to make and believe any crap so in your mind Obama is not the legal POTUS. very sad.

'Crap?'

Stop. You have nothing to add to the conversation other than 'faith.' I am not going to argue your faith.

Believe what you want.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

'Crap?'

Yes, crap. Which is why 200+ birther court cases have failed, every single one has failed, as all they have is crap.

It looks like the same nonsense is starting with Cruz.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

There you are incorrect, she did willingly and knowingly give up her citizenship.

To do that requires a positive declaration of renunciation at the U.S. Consulate in some foreign country (in Mrs. Cruz case that would obviously mean Canada (or possibly Cuba if it existed at the time, I suppose).

It was not stripped by law, but by the fact that she did marry a foreign national, who at the time was still a citizen of Cuba, and then by her moving to Canada, and him becoming a Canadian citizen.

It was not "stripped by law", that is correct, it cannot be "stripped by law". But the process you describe is precisely that. You are implying that the LAW strips the citizenship of women who marry foreign nationals overseas. That is simply not true.

It doesn't matter how many moves she made, how many people she married, what the citizenship status of her husbands were at any time, or how many countries she did or did not become naturalized in.

The only way she can 'lose' her American citizenship - the only way - is to personally apply for renunciation at a U.S. Consulate and convince the Consular officials that she understands the consequences of what she is doing.

There is no evidence that she ever did that.

And in that time frame, there is no evidence to show that she maintained a residence in the United States, in fact, all evidence points to her staying in Canada, and if they had not reconciled a few years later, would have stayed in Canada.

That is all 100% irrelevant to anything what-so-ever.

He maintained his dual citizenship for years, only giving it up in May, 2014.

This is correct, but do you see the contradiction in your own assertions here?

If we accept, for the sake of argument only, that Mrs. Cruz did, as you assert, in fact lose her American citizenship for any reason (marrying a foreign national, taking out Canadian citizenship, whatever), then Rafael Edward has no link to U.S. citizenship at all - he could never have had dual Canadian/US citizenship to give up - and now that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship, he would be stateless.

Of course she did not lose her citizenship, and so of course Rafael Edward is (was) a dual citizen and now that he has renounced his Canadian citizenship he is an American Citizen only - and since his citizenship was 'acquired' at birth he is a Natural Born Citizen.

Please prove me wrong; I would love for Cruz to be slammed.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

His mother would have been granted such by virtue of being married to a Canadian Citizen, and Canada did not recognize dual citizenship at the time, and it was considered to be when one applied for and got citizenship to another country, they ceased being a citizen of their originating country.

That may be so as far as Canadian law goes. Canada is entitled to make whatever citizenship law it finds suitable.

But that has NOTHING to do with American citizenship law. Unless Mrs. Cruz personally renounced her American citizenship at a US Consulate before Rafael Edward was born, she passed her American citizenship to her son.

Americans cannot lose their citizenship by acts of American law, let alone by the acts of Foreign laws.

Did Ted release his Consular report of birth Abroad form. Which may end all the argument. Although if his mother did file for Canadian citizenship at that time , Canada did not recognize dual cititzenship 1947 law.