When you say, "start at the bottom", what do you mean?

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: DBCowboy

It's a matter of what compensation you receive at a base that makes the difference. The bottom doesn't need to be a struggle to live with no time for family and friends. We've got the ability to raise the bar.

Instead the divide between the rich and the poor gets bigger and bigger. The bar was raising, but now it's going down worldwide rapidly.

And because you aren't willing to sacrifice for a short amount of time to get your career started, you will never get it started. Hardship is temporary and all of us who have been there before you have paid our dues understanding those facts, but because you can't be bothered and don't see the point, you demand to just skip that "hard" part and go straight to cushy or have it handed to you?

Think again.

a reply to: wantsome

My cousin never got a degree either, and he's doing more than OK as a trucker. He doesn't even do long hauls unless he wants extra money. He and his wife saved wisely and now they are building a new house and new property. He even has his own garage where he does custom car work as a hobby and makes a pretty good side business off of that.

Just for funzies... an income of 32,300USD puts you in the top 1% for global population.

GLOBAL RICH LIST

A full time job at minimum wage in the US puts you in the top 9% globally.

The overall median personal income for all individuals over the age of 18 was $24,062 ($32,140 for those age 25 or above) in the year 2005.

Personal Income in the US

We are the 1%.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Puppylove

Then I'd ask for 100K / year.

Why bother struggling?

Why not just start at the top end?

This idea that people can't make it, and that people shouldn't start at the bottom anymore is ridiculous.

You didn't even address any of the points she made you just went right back to your knee jerk reaction of, "oh why do you get handed a mansion on day 1?"

Or the robot response, "there's plenty of work for everyone even though 50 million people can't make enough money to live on without government assistance.

Because they are lazy right?

And your and Puppylove's answers are typical of why so many are living on government assistance. People tell you how to fix your situation and because the answer is not instant or easy, you immediately come up with excuses as to why those answers aren't good ones and end up doing nothing to change your situation.

50 million agree with you so you are in good company.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: DBCowboy

Your total lack of empathy and connection to the rest of the world is completely selfish and I have no interest in discussing anything with anyone who basis everything they think on the premise of, "I only care about myself".


Thanks.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

You can give a man a fish and feed him for a night or you can teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime.

I prefer teaching. It means I get to keep my fish. You just want my fish.

a reply to: onequestion

Get a dental hygienist cert, 2 yrs, 70k.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: DBCowboy

Everyone at the top makes that decision everyday for the entire world, get off your high horse.

Not only do they make that decision, but they'll always make that decision to give themselves more and more and everyone else less and less.

Addendum: Those at the top decide their own worth and judge themselves gods among men. I think those demanding food and shelter for their labor, are far lower on the arrogance scale.

I see. So you want to place yourself at the top.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Oh, I see. How quickly that changes. I thought we were talking about a basic living. Now it's a basic modern living. I think that's something else again.

What will it be next? Will you want upgrades to go with that basic support?

a reply to: Puppylove

I thought this thread was about how to get higher. When we told you how, you didn't like the answer. When we told you if you weren't willing to work to get higher, you deserved what you got, we suddenly morph into the big evil people who don't care if you aren't willing to do what it takes to earn your way?

Nice moving of the goalposts.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Actually, we're saying you get what you work for.

originally posted by: PhysicsAdept

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: onequestion

On your question about a college degree.... yes.

If you are going into debt for a degree, that job better pay. (Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, Nurse, Dentist, Dental Hygienist, Pharmacist, etc)

If you are getting a useless degree, you are a fool.

For a few thousand $ and a few months (not years) you can earn a CCNP certification and start making 50-60 K a year.

Be smart. Don't waste your time on crap.

It truly does sound as if you are obsessed with money. Do you really think that a degree only exists to make you superior in value to others? I'd be curious to hear what your degree is in. Certainly not in humanity, nor likely are you sworn to a Hippocratic Oath.

Tell me, are you an Accountant??

People who do well in life do so because they learn how to manage their money. Spend some time in an apartment scraping by on only a few hundred a month and you either get broken or learn how to budget every penny. Those are skills you don't forget.

Excuse us if passing that wisdom on to you sounds like greed.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: onequestion

Get a dental hygienist cert, 2 yrs, 70k.

Oh jeez.

a reply to: Puppylove

And people who genuinely need the social safety net are the ones it was designed for, not the ones like my brother-in-law's useless brother who lost a toe, is diabetic, refuses to manage his disease is also a drug addict and alcoholic and lives on welfare and disability for the lost toe (as if that makes you incapable of working - it doesn't).

There are too many like him in the system abusing it and too many who don't see the need to improve themselves who could otherwise do so if they chose to and/or made a whole slew of craptastic choices.

a reply to: PhysicsAdept

If you get a degree that will only get you a career that can't return enough in wages to cover your loan payments, then you made a bad economic decision no matter how you look at it. Even worse if you get a degree in a field that has no practical job field at all if you don't go into academics.

a reply to: Krakatoa

In my day, it was just free health care. Now it seems the argument du jour is free basic everything.

a reply to: Puppylove

So you want to excuse your inability to get promoted? Why are you so worried about everyone else. They will neither know nor care that you have given them so much if you managed to get them equal high level pay. All that will happen is that pretty soon, they will start to complain that it isn't enough and want more.

Because they will see they have the same as everyone else ... except that guy over there who did excel and now has more and better. And then we'll see you back here whining about how unfair it all is all over again because those poor people just can't get ahead.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: DBCowboy

You worked for it, doesn't mean it's what your work was worth though. No one is worth 100,000 billion dollars. You can argue all you want, but no one is worth billions more than someone else. That's called theft and tyranny.

And you make that argument off the assumption that all economic transactions in employment are a zero sum game with one person involved getting the full and only benefit out of the arrangement. In reality if that were the case, no one would enter into employment at any level for any reason.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Krakatoa

Obviously that's why things need to be reset and rebuilt. Every system requires a reboot now and then.

Obviously, there is only one answer possible for you:

You need to start and run your own business, and then you can operate it however you see fit according to your own ethics and principles.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: peck420

It is a fantasy land "truth". A child's view of the world IMO.

Or Western Ivory Tower Academia's. This is likely what they are teaching in most universities nowadays.

a reply to: onequestion

It is, but they don't do that skimping on the employees they have on staff. If you want a good employee, you pay for him. You minimize your labor costs in other ways - not hiring those extra hands you might have been considering but weren't all that sure you had to have. Cutting back on temps. Finding ways to shift your head count to other areas of the country or even other countries, but you don't skimp on paying your best employees.