Intriguing New Development on Tabby's Star (KIC 8462852)

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: Bedlam

So you mean like a mini blackhole ? stuck around the "core" of the star ?

Now I'm no astrophysicist but wouldn't it eventually grow in size to envelop the whole star ?

And wouldn't the gravitational force of the star keep it from escaping before it grows too large ?

It would take a while. Maybe a long time. Just looping around in there, bleeding off the core pressure. Eventually it'll become unstable and collapse, then you get a nova, I'd guess.

I have to agree with you on this one . A small black hole , just large enough to be self sustaining , was caught up in the gravitational influence of the star. Now the black hole is not large enough (yet) to collapse the star. So it exists as sort of a vampire drawing off the mass and energy of that star slowly . Rome wasnt built in a day. It may take millions of years for the black hole to eventually become large enough to completely consume it.

Maybe not ALIENS after all .

Just a thought: a type 0 civilization trying to figure out a type 2 civilization. Is that even possible Earthlings?

The Kardashev Scale

a reply to: Gothmog

Would you say the black hole is rotating around the star perhaps? IIRC, the star exhibits aperiodic variable dimming, it is not constant dimming nor periodic dimming.

Observations of the luminosity of the star by the Kepler space telescope show small, frequent, non-periodic dips in brightness, along with two large recorded dips in brightness appearing to occur roughly 750 days apart. The amplitude of the changes in the star's brightness, and the aperiodicity of the changes, mean that this star is of particular interest for astronomers.[15] The star's changes in brightness are consistent with many small masses orbiting the star in "tight formation".-wiki

a reply to: Gothmog

With the fluctuating intensity of light over such a distance, I'd say they blew themselves up a while ago.

Bye bye aliens, bye bye. The shape of things to come for us?

a reply to: Staroth

yes its possible. Star fleet from start trek. Theyre type 2 civilizations. The borg are type 3.

a reply to: Xenogears

Could be. Maybe in a slight erratic orbit which has became consistent yet.

Around the sun is a astroid belt.
they say it could be from a big planet braking up.
that would look like this!

or a planet like mecury geting to close to the
sun and braking up and faling into the sun.
this would be very slow.

a reply to: Gothmog

Perhaps. I'm leaning towards actual random variations in the star's output due to a quirk of stellar physics. This phenomenon might be quite common but not earlier observed because astronomers were not making such close, long term observations before now. A mini black hole being swallowed by a more massive star is one such possibility. Perhaps there is a high energy jet that is not aligned properly to be observed from Earth.

I'll side with the mentions of an unknown behavior of stars. If it's not an object doing this, that is. What might cause a star (larger than our own especially) to lose core pressure needed for fusion??? I do wonder if it's "resonating" with something. Anyone seen the sono-luminescence vids?

Here is a link to their explanation:
www.youtube.com...

Maybe it's acting like that and the dimming is from a change in its surroundings? Anyone who supports the electric universe paradigm knows that a star is better likened to a transformer. Could there be an E.U. explanation for it? I'm not well versed in its concepts so I can't say, but hopefully another will be able to!

originally posted by: tinymind
Just for the sake of discussion, let's assume an intelligent life form had evolved to a level in which they had mastered space travel. It could also be safe to assume that they may amassed a large population by this time and were ready to expand and colonize other planets. It may have taken a very long time to reach this stage in their evolutionary development and their parent star may be approaching an end to its life cycle. Rather than, or they may have already, colonize any planets within their solar system, they look for another suitable system with a younger star so their species will have longer and better survival prospects. They find such a star but it does not have a planet within the proper position. They could then embark upon a long term plan to design and build their own habitat in the form of a ring rather than a sphere.

A fabricated structure would have to be made considering the best usage of all materials involved and would likely not be of sufficient mass to generate the same gravitation field as a planet. This would necessitate the need for the entire structure to be orbited about its star at a rate which would induce sufficient centrifugal force as to simulate a gravity field. This would not be practical with a spherical structure. This ring would therefore completely encircle its star, but would not necessarily be set on a singular constant angle with respect its equator.
Oh yes, I do realize I am talking about a structure which could easily be 10000 miles wide, 1000 miles thick, and almost 565 million miles in circumference; moving in an orbit around a star. This would be a marvelous accomplishment for any life form but could be the long term answer to acquiring living space for its population. As most of the volume of this structure would be open space, the maintenance of the atmosphere would be a prime priority. Since it is an artificial habitat, there would be no natural resources, they would be dependent upon gathering material from the surrounding area of space for any manufacturing to be done. I would guess the recycling of materials will be of paramount importance and waste would not be encouraged as it is with the terrestrial societies I currently know about.
The inner surface of the ring would, of course, be utilized to gather the energy from the sunlight which shown upon it, thus lowering the amount of light which would be perceived by others looking in the direction of this star. Dependent upon the needs of the inhabitants, the width and depth of such a ring structure could easily be enlarged over time until the life of the star again became a factor.
This would be a much better scenario for the expansion of a civilization than simply hopping from one star system to another. While there would be engineering and construction challenges; there would not be the need for conquest of new lands and/or the chance encounter with unknown predators’ or deadly pathogenic viruses or bacteria.
This is, of course, my own thoughts on how a “civilized” civilization could move across the universe without the need for clashes with others.
Also, this would seem to be as valid a possible explaination, even as far out as it may be, as most any other; until the true nature of this mystery is found.

Big thoughts for a tinymind
I've read some very good scifi that presents just what you suggest. Waste is almost nil as the inhabitants are almost entirely machine.

originally posted by: Xenogears
a reply to: Gothmog

Would you say the black hole is rotating around the star perhaps? IIRC, the star exhibits aperiodic variable dimming, it is not constant dimming nor periodic dimming.

Observations of the luminosity of the star by the Kepler space telescope show small, frequent, non-periodic dips in brightness, along with two large recorded dips in brightness appearing to occur roughly 750 days apart. The amplitude of the changes in the star's brightness, and the aperiodicity of the changes, mean that this star is of particular interest for astronomers.[15] The star's changes in brightness are consistent with many small masses orbiting the star in "tight formation".-wiki

From the same source en.wikipedia.org...
"Due to extensive media coverage on this matter, KIC 8462852 has been compared by Kepler '​s Steve Howell with KIC 4110611, another star with an odd light curve (which proved, after years of research, to be a part of a five-star system). Regarding the current light curve data of KIC 8462852, Wright has emphasized the importance of upcoming spectral studies. According to Wright, the likelihood of extraterrestrial intelligence being the cause of the dimming is very low; however, the star is an outstanding SETI target because natural explanations have yet to fully explain the dimming phenomenon."

originally posted by: ItCameFromOuterSpace
"Within the context of the comet-family idea, the century-long dimming trend requires an estimated 648,000 giant comets (each with 200 km diameter) all orchestrated to pass in front of the star within the last century."

That would be an average of around 17 giant comments passing in front of it daily. How likely is that?

More likely would be a couple of massive exoplanets, crashing into one another or somehow otherwise obliterating each planet with the resultant debris cloaking a high percentage of their host stars' output.

....Or a Dyson's sphere being constructed of course.

originally posted by: Ross 54

originally posted by: eriktheawful
What would be telling is that amount of dimming increasing over time. It could mean something being built that is covering up more and more of the star's light.

That would be really suggestive.

A gradual dimming of this star, over time, is what the chart in the linked paper seems to show. 16 of 18 data points lie along a steadily declining track of brightness, from 1890 to 1989. And , yes, I agree, this is highly suggestive.

Would it be possible that a huge fleet of ships is approaching our solar system.
This would cause an ever increasing shadow on our system explaining the trend?

The smashing of planets in the Tabby's Star system would create a great deal of dust. They've repeatedly looked for such dust, with instruments sensitive enough to detect its infra-red signature. No such dust has been found.

Would it be possible that a huge fleet of ships is approaching our solar system.
This would cause an ever increasing shadow on our system explaining the trend?

An interesting idea. Such vessels would have to be aligned precisely on a straight line, between Tabby's Star and Earth, in order to dim that star from our point of view. If we're talking about ships from Tabby's Star, they would presumably be aimed at the point where Earth will be when they arrive, not where it is at present.
The stars move slowly with respect to one another. It's unclear if this movement would, in this case, change the alignment enough to remove the vessels from in front of Tabby's star. This would also depend on how much time the trip from Tabby's Star to Earth would require.

The comparison of Tabby's Star to another one, KIC 4110611, also said to have an unusual light curve, is difficult, because so little information about the latter can be found. The dimming in this star is said to be slighter than with Tabby's Star. The cause was finally resolved when this star was found to be part of a system of five stars that revolve around one another.
A relatively dim star passing in front of a brighter one would cause the latter to appear less bright for a short time. It doesn't seem at all likely that anything of this sort can explain a gradual dimming of Tabby's Star over the course of a century, such as Dr. Schaefer has recently found.
Such a slow-moving dim star would have to be so far away from Tabby's star that the chances of it being exactly aligned with both Tabby's Star and Earth seem remote. There would simply be too many positions in space for it to occupy, in which it would not cover Tabby's Star.

originally posted by: Bedlam

It would take a while. Maybe a long time. Just looping around in there, bleeding off the core pressure. Eventually it'll become unstable and collapse, then you get a nova, I'd guess.

It sounds like you're describing something akin to a Thorne-Żytkow object, but with a black hole rather than a neutron star?

Thorne–Żytkow object at Wikipedia

I'm not sure if that's feasible unless the black hole had a mass significantly lower than any stellar mass black hole discovered (i.e. a micro or primordial black hole, if such things exist). I'm no expert of course, although I expect that those who are have already considered and discounted this possibility.

a reply to: dimethylmercury

I tend to agree with you. This would be a very theoretical kind of black hole, nothing at all like the ones astronomers have identified. Comparing the likelihood of the black hole scenario with that of the Dyson swarm, Occam’s razor could cut either way.

a reply to: Astyanax

Essentially, the result is something amazing regardless of how it is sliced. Still, I don't like applying Occam's Razor to situations such as this. We are in the realm of the completely unprecedented.

I cannot help but wonder, how would the world react if the official announcement was "We have discovered an alien megastructure 1500 light years from Earth."