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Ashcroft pushing PATRIOT II, Bush hesitating

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posted on Jun, 12 2003 @ 10:32 PM
Here it is, just posted on Drudge....

WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft is pushing for enhanced law enforcement powers to conduct the nation's ongoing war on terrorism, but the White House is taking a cautious route in the face of some public and congressional reservations.

Ashcroft, the moving force behind the USA-PATRIOT Act, said the law he credited with helping to "save innocent lives" nonetheless contains "several weaknesses which terrorists could exploit, undermining our defenses."

With that in mind, the Justice Department continues to work on what is popularly referred to as PATRIOT II, which would further broaden law enforcement's mandate. Ashcroft already is publicly lobbying for three changes - making it unlawful to fight for a designated terrorist organization, imposing the death penalty for various terrorist actions and extending pre-trial detention for those arrested for terrorism-related offenses.

Several members of Congress, including Republicans like Rep. James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, have expressed concerns about providing law enforcement with much more authority, raising questions about civil liberties.

"I believe the (Justice) Department and Congress must be vigilant toward short-term gains which ultimately may cause long-term harm to the spirit of liberty and equality which animate the American character," Sensenbrenner said.

posted on Jun, 12 2003 @ 10:36 PM
Anyone know the details of Patriot-II? My guess is that it is written with selected vague language.

posted on Jun, 12 2003 @ 10:42 PM
A while back I posted a link containing what is in the 2nt patriot act. The link is below.


I have others but this one is the whole thing.


posted on Jun, 12 2003 @ 10:46 PM
Some of it here...

The Justice Department quickly released a statement that said, "It should not be surprising that the Department of Justice ... discusses additional tools to protect the American people."

The act allows the government to:

* Conduct domestic wiretapping without court order for 15 days following a congressional authorization of use of force or an attack on the United States.

* Secretly detain citizens.

* Deport any alien, including green-card holders, who are convicted of drug possession or an aggravated felony.

* Access a citizen's credit reports without a subpoena.

* Abolish federal court "consent decrees" that limit police surveillance of non-criminal organizations and public events.

* Criminalize the use of encryption software in the commission or planning of a felony.

* Apply strict gag rules to those subpoenaed by a grand jury.

* Collect DNA from suspected terrorists and indeed from any individual whose DNA might assist terror investigations.

* Extend authorization periods for secret wiretaps and Internet surveillance.

* Ease restrictions on the use of secret evidence.

You can read the entire 87-page draft here. Constitutional watchdog Nat Hentoff has called it "the most radical government plan in our history to remove from Americans their liberties under the Bill of Rights." Some of DSEA's more draconian provisions:

Americans could have their citizenship revoked, if found to have contributed "material support" to organizations deemed by the government, even retroactively, to be "terrorist." As Hentoff wrote in the Feb. 28 Village Voice: "Until now, in our law, an American could only lose his or her citizenship by declaring a clear intent to abandon it. But and read this carefully from the new bill 'the intent to relinquish nationality need not be manifested in words, but can be inferred from conduct.'" (Italics Hentoff's.)

Legal permanent residents (like, say, my French wife), could be deported instantaneously, without a criminal charge or even evidence, if the Attorney General considers them a threat to national security. If they commit minor, non-terrorist offenses, they can still be booted out, without so much as a day in court, because the law would exempt habeas corpus review in some cases. As the American Civil Liberties Union stated in its long brief against the DSEA, "Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus a protection guaranteed by the Constitution since the Civil War."

The government would be instructed to build a mammoth database of citizen DNA information, aimed at "detecting, investigating, prosecuting, preventing or responding to terrorist activities." Samples could be collected without a court order; one need only be suspected of wrongdoing by a law enforcement officer. Those refusing the cheek-swab could be fined $200,000 and jailed for a year. "Because no federal genetic privacy law regulates DNA databases, privacy advocates fear that the data they contain could be misused," Wired News reported March 31. "People with 'flawed' DNA have already suffered genetic discrimination at the hands of employers, insurance companies and the government."

Authorities could wiretap anybody for 15 days, and snoop on anyone's Internet usage (including chat and email), all without obtaining a warrant.

The government would be specifically instructed not to release any information about detainees held on suspicion of terrorist activities, until they are actually charged with a crime. Or, as Hentoff put it, "for the first time in U.S. history, secret arrests will be specifically permitted."

Businesses that rat on their customers to the Feds even if the information violates privacy agreements, or is, in fact, dead wrong would be granted immunity. "Such immunity," the ACLU contended, "could provide an incentive for neighbor to spy on neighbor and pose problems similar to those inherent in Attorney General Ashcroft's Operation TIPS."

Police officers carrying out illegal searches would also be granted legal immunity if they were just carrying out orders.

Federal "consent decrees" limiting local law enforcement agencies' abilities to spy on citizens in their jurisdiction would be rolled back. As Howard Simon, executive director of Florida's ACLU, noted in a March 19 column in the Sarasota Herald Tribune: "The restrictions on political surveillance were hard-fought victories for civil liberties during the 1970s."

American citizens could be subject to secret surveillance by their own government on behalf of foreign countries, including dictatorships.

The death penalty would be expanded to cover 15 new offenses.

And many of PATRIOT I's "sunset provisions" stipulating that the expanded new enforcement powers would be rescinded in 2005 would be erased from the books, cementing Ashcroft's rushed legislation in the law books. As UPI noted March 10, "These sunset provisions were a concession to critics of the bill in Congress."

posted on Jun, 12 2003 @ 10:52 PM
Almost forgot to add this other link this is the entire original document scanned and in actrobat format for anyone who wants the original.


posted on Jun, 12 2003 @ 11:13 PM
Man, you know after this document leaked out on the internet, if this damned thing passes we are all screwed. No more internet.

posted on Jun, 13 2003 @ 05:31 AM
And people worry about Saddam.

We have a blood thirsty tyrant here at home whose more of a danger to your civil liberties and life than saddam.


posted on Jun, 13 2003 @ 06:45 PM
The Secret Patriot Act II Destroys What Is Left of American Liberty

A Brief Analysis of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, Also Known as Patriot Act II
By Alex Jones
(Posted Feb 10, 2003)

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first Patriot Act's powers by saying that President Bush was seizing dictatorial control.

On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document consisted of a 33-page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87-page bill.

*Note: On February 10, 2003 I discovered that not only was there a house version that had been covertly brought to Hastert, but that many provisions of the now public Patriot Act II had already been introduced as pork barrel riders on Senate Bill S. 22. Dozens of subsections and even the titles of the subsections are identical to those in the House version. This is very important because it catches the Justice Department in a bald-faced lie. The Justice Department claimed that the secret legislation brought into the House was only for study, and that at this time there was no intention to try and pass it. Now upon reading S. 22, it is clear that the leadership of the Senate is fully aware of the Patriot Act II, and have passed these riders out of their committees into the full bill. I spent two hours scanning through S. 22 and, let me tell you, it is a nightmare for anyone who loves liberty. It even contains the Our Lady of Peace Act that registers all gun owners. It bans the private sale of all firearms, creates a Federal ballistics database, and much more.

posted on Jun, 13 2003 @ 09:37 PM
What do you think the rest of the world will do?

posted on Jun, 14 2003 @ 02:51 AM
Heil Ashcroft !

In the 30', Germany had Himmler. The USA has now Ashcroft. I just don't know who's the new American Dr Goebels.

The war against terrorists and terrorism is becoming a war against the common US Citizen.

Also, I wonder who/what is really threatening the USA nowadays. An " external " power or an " internal " one ? May be both.

P.S : I think that after this post, I can forget my idea to immigrate to the US one of these days, isn't it ? Pretty sad. Anyway, I've to leave the EU.I just have to find another nation where I'll not see any commies or nazis.

posted on Jun, 14 2003 @ 02:54 AM
Congratulations on your enlightenment U-P.

posted on Jun, 14 2003 @ 02:13 PM
For UP:

Goebels: Wolfawitz
Goering: Rumsfeld (wouldnt doubt he cross dresses too)
Hess: Dick Cheney
Rommel: Colin Powell (Rommel, as a good general, began to have dounts later on about his Fueher too, and began to secretly work in the resistance to Hitler)

You have so many dedicated goons, pick your own Heydrich!

Good choice, UP, u dont wanna immigrate here. US sucks. Australia, from what I hear, is actually a pretty nice place................

posted on Jun, 14 2003 @ 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Good choice, UP, u dont wanna immigrate here. US sucks. Australia, from what I hear, is actually a pretty nice place................

I don't think the US sucks and I think the USA are still a democracy and a good place to immigrate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only think that Ashcroft is going too far and my meaning was not to bash the USA and her peoples.I just think it's not a good idea to go there until Ashcroft is still in the Justice Dept.

It's not because I don't agree with someone from a gov that I think the whole country, the government or the peoples from this country ( the USA or another one ) are sucking.

Also, I'm still standing for the right-wing, the USA and what they represents to my eyes.

I hope it light your candle.

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