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Ted Cruz was born in Canada

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posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Debatted and ruled in the supreme court Natural born is a condition of the US citizen born to an US Citizen. Not the location where the US citizen was born.


United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) says otherwise.... the parents do not have to be citizens for a child to be natural born.




posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: JustMike
a reply to: yesyesyes

Oh, get over it and quite trying to make an argument out of nothing. I am not even an American and so it's not a direct concern for me, but even I know darned well it has long since been established, that if one of a person's parents is a US citizen, it doesn't matter one iota where in the world the person was born. That child is still a US citizen by inalienable right of birth. There is no ruling by the Supreme Court I know of that states both a person's parents must be US, citizens, either. One is enough.

If you can find a US Supreme Court Ruling that says otherwise, then please post a reference to it. Only such a ruling can support your argument. Anything else you care to dredge up is utterly irrelevant. If you cannot cite such a ruling, then accept the fact that Ted Cruz's situation is effectively identical to John McCain's, who was not born in the USA, but was eligible to run for POTUS and be elected, if the voters so chose.

I repeat, not being a US citizen, I have no dog in this fight. But it annoys the heck out of me to see an intelligent person like yourself trying to flog a horse that is so dead it's not even good for making glue.



The Supreme court has actually never ruled on this.

What I have heard, is that Constitutional questions of intent defer to English Common Law (because the constitution is
based upon common law). In that case, common law (as it existed in the 1700's) says that natural born means that you were born of the land and not naturalized. Both are citizens, but there is a distinction.

It is also interesting because Ted Cruz uses a strict, original intent position to shape his policies on immigration when it applies to Mexicans, but he does not when it apples to himself.

The difference between Cruz and Mccain is that Mccain's father was a military member and such a scenario has been settled judicially.

A Canadian born person, who's parents settled in Canada, who's parent voted in Canada is not so cut and dry, I'm sorry.

edit on 15-1-2016 by yesyesyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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edit on 15-1-2016 by yesyesyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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edit on 15-1-2016 by yesyesyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Debatted and ruled in the supreme court Natural born is a condition of the US citizen born to an US Citizen. Not the location where the US citizen was born.


United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) says otherwise.... the parents do not have to be citizens for a child to be natural born.


Wong Kim was BORN IN THE USA

That is the difference



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 05:19 PM
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originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Debatted and ruled in the supreme court Natural born is a condition of the US citizen born to an US Citizen. Not the location where the US citizen was born.


United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) says otherwise.... the parents do not have to be citizens for a child to be natural born.


Wong Kim was BORN IN THE USA

That is the difference


Did you see what I was replying to?
" Not the location where the US citizen was born."

Obama was born in the USA and yet some people try and claim he is not natural born!



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 06:29 PM
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Cruz may be toast. He has offended the powers that could have approved his Natural born citizenship in the senate and he also has offended and mocked the Supreme Court and has said they should be disbanded. They might sink him.

McCain is different in that both his parents were citizens and he was born on a US base

Also Cruz was actually a Canadian citizen.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce
They do if they are born outside the US but if any child is born inside even without US citizenship the child is a US Citizen. We are talking about one born outside the US with one parent that is US Citizen. In that case it is not the locational but the positional. It is either way for one born in side the US whose parents are not US citizens.



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 04:36 AM
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a reply to: yesyesyes

Thank you for your reply. I couldn't find any specific Supreme Court ruling on the matter in question either.

I'd like to preface the following remarks by saying that my own comments to you were a bit unfair, and for that, you have my apologies. I did not consider the full context of this case before commenting.

As you have pointed out in your reply to me, the situation of Cruz is quite different to McCain's, for exactly the reasons you stated. The situation of Sen. McCain's citizenship parallels that of many other Americans born to US military personnel while based outside of US dominions and it has been resolved. But in McCain's case, it was completely laid to rest by a unanimous Senate resolution in April, 2008, that (in short) declared he met the POTUS candidate citizenship requirements. (Resolution S.Res. 511 of the 110th Congress.)

I am not sure if a similar motion in respect of Ted Cruz would be passed unanimously. Part of the above resolution specifically refers to exactly where McCain was born and under what circumstances:

Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936
and that circumstance does not apply to Ted Cruz -- for three reasons. One of Cruz's parents was definitely not a US citizen, so the plural term doesn't apply. Neither of his parents was serving in the US military. And, Cruz was not born on an American military base.

Those three points were obviously important in Res. 511. Otherwise they would not have been mentioned.

So already, compared to McCain, Cruz seems to be on shaky ground.

The question hanging over his mother's US-citizen status at the time Cruz was born in 1970 could well turn out to be a bigger issue than anything else. The reason is simple: his father was not a US citizen, so his entire claim to US citizenship itself depends on his mother and her citizenship status at the time of his birth, in a region not part of the US or its dominions.

There are statements online that she was registered to vote in Canada in 1974, which would require her to be a Canadian citizen. She apparently denies ever having taken Canadian citizenship, so until that matter can be completely clarified, all we have is the word of herself and her son. However, even if she didn't take it but had perhaps begun the application process, how would that impact her legal status as a US citizen? I can appreciate that it could create some level of doubt. And does (possibly) being registered to vote in 1974 affect her situation in 1970, when her son was actually born in Canada?

Overall, Ted Cruz's situation looks very muddy to me. Since posting my first response here I have read various statements by learned people that Sen. Cruz qualifies under the US Constitution's specific POTUS requirements, but I have read others by similarly qualified people who say he does not.

If it is ever determined that Cruz did not automatically obtain US citizenship by birth from his mother, then he was never eligible to be a US Senator either!


edit on 16/1/16 by JustMike because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: JustMike

At the time of Cruz's birth his mother was a US citizen.

I was not in the military and all my children were born overseas. They are all considered natural born because I am a US citizen and had their births recorded at the local Embassy, and they issued Birth abroad certificates for each one.



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: JustMike



However, even if she didn't take it but had perhaps begun the application process, how would that impact her legal status as a US citizen?
Not in the least.

Based on the U.S. Department of State regulation on dual citizenship (7 FAM 1162), the Supreme Court of the United States has stated that dual citizenship is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not, without more, mean that he renounces the other", Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717 (1952).

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 06:57 PM
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This Canuck thinks he could do a better job than that Canuck.



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 09:19 PM
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Cruz should be deported to Canada with the Mexicans in the Trump deportation act of 2017.

IF he becomes president.



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 09:27 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
Cruz should be deported to Canada with the Mexicans in the Trump deportation act of 2017.

IF he becomes president.


Sorry. No take backs. You keep Beiber, Celine Dion and Pamela Anderson.



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Willtell
Cruz should be deported to Canada with the Mexicans in the Trump deportation act of 2017.

IF he becomes president.


Sorry. No take backs. You keep Beiber, Celine Dion and Pamela Anderson.


You could have Cruz for nothing.
Take em…



posted on Jan, 16 2016 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Willtell
Cruz should be deported to Canada with the Mexicans in the Trump deportation act of 2017.

IF he becomes president.


Sorry. No take backs. You keep Beiber, Celine Dion and Pamela Anderson.


You could have Cruz for nothing.
Take em…


He wouldn't do well here, outside of Alberta. Probably end up a used car salesman.



posted on Jan, 20 2016 @ 12:55 AM
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ok so what



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: yesyesyes

One of the things I did not realize when I entered this thread, was that Cruz's mother voted in a foreign election, so I decided to spend my free time this last week looking up some laws, since I remembered some law about that.

However, what I found was that in 1967 the Supreme Court overturned the precedent which was set in en.wikipedia.org... and rendered the 1940's immigration act 'voting in foreign elections' clause unconstitutional when they decided this case: en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore, a citizen could, at the time of Cruz's birth, vote in foreign elections and still keep their US citizenship.

Now, the children of citizens being citizens themselves has some measure of rules, it is not always just a given. So I looked up what those laws are, as of the time of his birth.



THE “CITIZENSHIP ACT OF 1966”: Congress amends Section 301 (a) (7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 to read as follows:

"Section 301 (a) (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided *, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669; 22 U.S.C. 288) by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date.” Act of November 6, 1966 (80 Stat. 1322)
The Evolution of US Citizenship Law Since 1789

Therefore, she could not have left the United States prior to turning 19 years of age. I looked to find out how old his mother is and found her birth certificate:

www.breitbart.com...

And since she did not move to Canada until 1969, then she was fairly old and this would make, as far as I can tell, Cruz truly considered a natural born citizen of the United States government by birthright through his mother. And since he has lived within the United States since he was 4 years old continually, I don't believe there is any legal challenge possible.


edit on 21-1-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: Kitana
I don't believe there is any legal challenge possible.


But look at Obama, a natural born US citizen but birthers still attempted over 200 lawsuits (and lost every single one).

So facts will not stop people making a legal challenge!



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Kitana

Thanks for all the above info plus a bag of chips, I am fairly certain he should be eligible to run for office, after all he was physically in the U.S since age 4, so culturally and physiologically he is an American, my thing was the hypocrisy surrounding Obama and the Birthers and the fact it now came back to bite people like Cruz in the azz.



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