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Civilian Pentagon Amateurs are Destroying the U.S. Army

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posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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When Reagan came into office, he took our demoralized military and re-built it into the finest fighting force the world has ever seen. By the time Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in the summer of 1990, the Army's morale and fighting abilities were at an all-time high. Our military brass, including Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell, had devised plans that would ensure not just a winning strategy to fight the next war, but exit strategies as well. This ensured that another Vietnam would not occur again.

The Persian Gulf War was led and fought by real warriors - not by non-military civilians who crawled out of some fishbowl think tank spewing grand and unworkable theories. The action was a triumph (with the exception of leaving Hussein in power). In the process, we restored the honor of our military and led the world in a multilateral effort to right an international wrong. It was a proud moment for us.

I never thought we'd revert back to those bad old days. Even George Bush the first said we had "excised the ghosts of Vietnam.." I thought we had learned all those hard lessons. AFter the Gulf War our leaders (from that era) retired and many of us vets left the service for greener pastures. It's a damn shame. First Clinton's administration poisoned our forces with political correctness and nation-building, then came something (incomprehensibly) far-worse: The Neo Con take-over. These men and women, by and large, have never served in any military and know nothing of making and winning wars. They do know greed and powermongering, however. Chief among them are Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. Their policies are destroying our once great military. At the very least, they should be fired for their absolute incompetence. Anyone who cannot recognize that simple fact has absolutely no business claiming to support our troops.





William Pfaff: An army's morale on the downswing
William Pfaff International Herald Tribune
Wednesday, December 29, 2004


PARIS When George W. Bush was first elected president, civil-military relations in the United States were worse than they had ever been before. They are no better today, for more serious reasons.

The decline had begun with the Vietnam War. The less perspicacious part of the officer corps chose to blame civilian interference for the loss in that war.

What the military would have done in Vietnam without civilian interference remains unclear; they never offered the government a coherent alternative plan to the one provided by Robert McNamara, Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger. This was undoubtedly because there wasn't one - the war was unwinnable, short of the Dresden option (an option retested in November at Falluja in Iraq).

With the Vietnam defeat, the years of the "hollow army" began, with an angry and alienated military leadership, unsympathetic politicians and an amnesiac public.

A non-conscript professional army was built up. The result of professionalization was to create an officer corps politically on the right. This concerned academic observers and civilians sympathetic to the military, as well as thoughtful officers themselves, aware of the importance of defending the American tradition of an apolitical military.

The professional military's alienation from its civilian leadership increased with the Clinton administration's arrival - a draft-dodger president, with a feminist first lady and a liberal agenda. As one military historian has written, first there was the disastrous don't-ask, don't-tell clash over homosexuals in the service (where, as anyone who has been in the military knows, there has always been an underground homosexual culture, for self-evident reasons - where else can you meet so many guys?).

Then came Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo - and the Tailhook uproar - plus stalemate over national security policy. Colin Powell, as chairman of the joint chiefs, actually presented the civilian government with specific terms on which the military would agree to go to war. (These terms - clear objective, overwhelming force, exit strategy - were completely ignored, bizarrely enough, in going to war in Iraq, with the fearful consequences we now see).
www.iht.com.../articles/2004/12/28/news/edpfaff.html




posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Not only that ECK, low level operatives from within the CIA and the FBI are coming out with the truth that Government officials within the Pentagon have become corrupt and are destroying are once great military. These are what we call "whistleblowers." It's pathetice what our government leaders have become. As the saying goes "Power can corrupt you."



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Hey M2, I was wondering where you were.


Yep, for a long time folks at the CIA and FBI have been forced to whistleblow and ruin their careers. How tragic is that? They are the ones busting their a$$es to protect us.. and they are the ones getting stonewalled, shut down and run out. Now here comes uber yes-man, Bush sycophant Porter Goss.. Let's face it, they're turning our alphabet agencies into their very own criminal syndicate. Wolves guarding the hen-house.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Hey M2, I was wondering where you were.


Yep, for a long time folks at the CIA and FBI have been forced to whistleblow and ruin their careers. How tragic is that? They are the ones busting their a$$es to protect us.. and they are the ones getting stonewalled, shut down and run out. Now here comes uber yes-man, Bush sycophant Porter Goss.. Let's face it, they're turning our alphabet agencies into their very own criminal syndicate. Wolves guarding the hen-house.


Sibel Edmonds is a perfect example of that. A$$croft keeps silencing her. Man that guy gives me the creeps.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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Hey! Didja hear? A$$croft's dopey song "Wings of the Eagle" or whatever its called is gonna be performed at Bush's inaugural!


A$$croft freaks me out, man!



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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Always the same. The civvies and their beancounter buddies, none of whom have ever served in any branch of the military, take over and waste money on pointless high budget scams to line their pockets and those of their corporate defence industry buddies. They control, the military, the intelligence networks and law enforcement and use them to further their own agendas, not those that necessarily suit the country that they are in office to serve.

Hell, it's not like they or their kids are gonna have to go fight is it.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Hey! Didja hear? A$$croft's dopey song "Wings of the Eagle" or whatever its called is gonna be performed at Bush's inaugural!


A$$croft freaks me out, man!


What!? Noooooooooo! Oh God and can't stand it when the creep sings that crap. It's the most awful sound I've ever heard come out of someone's mouth!
The horror never ends, does it?



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Hey! Didja hear? A$$croft's dopey song "Wings of the Eagle" or whatever its called is gonna be performed at Bush's inaugural!


A$$croft freaks me out, man!

The horror never ends, does it?


No mrmulder, it never does!
Not only is this administration the most inept and corrupt in history.. it is also the most ghastly and SQUARE! Asscroft's so bad, they won't even let him sing his own song!
They should send him down to Gitmo and make him sing to the "terrorists." They'd give up the goods or make some up just to get the hell away from him!


[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Hey! Didja hear? A$$croft's dopey song "Wings of the Eagle" or whatever its called is gonna be performed at Bush's inaugural!


A$$croft freaks me out, man!


And if I heard correctly on a US radio station I listen to, Kid Rock will perform as well. Yes you heard me. He will no doubt perform "Cowboy"...

Did I hear correctly?

[edit on 7-1-2005 by cargo]



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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I remember when my husband served 8 years under Reagan the military was the best and we have the best time.

But the success of the first Gulf war was due to the fact that US was not alone it had the approval of the UN and the rest of the world.

That made the US the best and leader on the world at that time and a force to be admired.

We all in the military at the time saw the Clinton era as a down fall of the one proud military, My husband served the 8 years under Clinton and I remember the concern and the worries.

One of the mistakes that the present administration did was not to bring back the proud and ready military before the war on Iraq and now we are reaping the consequences.

Even when our military is one of the best trained, we did not have the support of the rest of the world and the results of Iraq has prove that one country alone and one military can not due it all alone.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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This is one of the most outrageous myths out there - Clinton reducing our military capability.

Does anyone remember 90' - 92 ' - they were downsizing and letting everyone out of the military. Squadrons in the Navy got decommissioned and even academy grads were let go without question. Programs like F-14 got cut, etc. etc. And who was in charge - Bush senior, Cheney.

In the mid 90s our budgets increased significantly and our operational status was the same as before.

The military always hurts - always needs armor and supplies, more training missions, more flight hours, etc. etc.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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Why do you think that our troops are required to turn in their weapons when they leave the military?

I hope for all our sakes that some true patriots still have the guts to expose the corruption coming down from the top.

The Bush administration is using our brave young soldiers as expendable pawns
to secure the exploitation of Iraqi oil.
These men could give a rats a$$ about the cost in lives and limbs
as long as they acheive their goals.
Meanwhile OUR freedom is being compromised with every move they make.

How many lives have to be torn apart before we stand up as a nation and put their
madness to a halt?



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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Well I do remember the early retirement offers, to get the senior military to give up their long term retirement and to take a pay out.

My husband did not took it, and now he is very glad he did not, now all those other Marines that went for it regret it very much.

I remember that whats in the 90s we were station at 29 palms after first gulf war.

I still think clinton have some fault at the way the military down graded.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by NavyDog
This is one of the most outrageous myths out there - Clinton reducing our military capability.

Does anyone remember 90' - 92 ' - they were downsizing and letting everyone out of the military.


Yes, the drawdown began at the end of the Gulf War. The problem with Clinton was the full-blown ushering in of Political Correctness. Although it had been creeping in that direction, it became full blown under his leadership. Morale and discipline suffered greatly under Clinton.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well I do remember the early retirement offers, to get the senior military to give up their long term retirement and to take a pay out.


I thought the massive drawdown was a bad idea to begin with. Still do. Especially now that Rumsfeld's idiotic fantasy of transformation has been proven to be complete horseshyte. Besides, the best and most experienced folks left the service. At the same time the Vietnam vets all retired.

There was also an exodus of the laziest troops, too. They saw an early out coupled with that phat pay-out and jumped for it, while having to sign a bar to re-enlistment. I thought, oh great.. now they'll get out and jump onto the wellfare rolls.
That'll really help the budget... At least in the military they were gainfully employed.


I remember that whats in the 90s we were station at 29 palms after first gulf war.


I went there once. I was working out of Phoenix, AZ. That was one LONG drive.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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ECK 29 palms is a lonely place in the desert and while my husband was there the Somalia conflict started, I tell you I learned from hiking to back riding and visited all the Oasis in the area.


I had to do the best I could do under the situation.


And then spend all days watching the rock climbers, I never did myself.


Then when it got to hot I would take the kids to big bear for a refreshing day at the lake.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
ECK 29 palms is a lonely place in the desert and while my husband was there the Somalia conflict started, I tell you I learned from hiking to back riding and visited all the Oasis in the area.


I had to do the best I could do under the situation.


And then spend all days watching the rock climbers, I never did myself.


Then when it got to hot I would take the kids to big bear for a refreshing day at the lake.


It took forever to get there. Nothing on the radio!
Too bad for you there was no ATS at the time! That woulda kept ya bizzee.


You know.. come to think of it, you were there when I visited. Small world, eh?
Just think.. we may have even seen each other...



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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Who knows, I did work at Camp Davis for a while and in the women department at the PX also at the golf club until the manager got to frisky with me. ha, ha, ha



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I remember when my husband served 8 years under Reagan the military was the best and we have the best time.

But the success of the first Gulf war was due to the fact that US was not alone it had the approval of the UN and the rest of the world.

That made the US the best and leader on the world at that time and a force to be admired.

We all in the military at the time saw the Clinton era as a down fall of the one proud military, My husband served the 8 years under Clinton and I remember the concern and the worries.

One of the mistakes that the present administration did was not to bring back the proud and ready military before the war on Iraq and now we are reaping the consequences.

Even when our military is one of the best trained, we did not have the support of the rest of the world and the results of Iraq has prove that one country alone and one military can not due it all alone.



I knew there was something somewhere we could agree on! Have to say these were the best posts from you I've read. Thank you for your military support and willingness to say the truth about this issue.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

I knew there was something somewhere we could agree on! Have to say these were the best posts from you I've read. Thank you for your military support and willingness to say the truth about this issue.


Centurion I know how is to have family in the war, and I am with you on the support of our love ones.

I will tell you that I was a Republican supporter until the Invation of Iraq, after that everything changed.

My parents has always been republicans and so my brothers and sisters, and they still are, even when they don't agree with many things.

I am now a liberal or at least that is what I am called since I disagree with the present administration.



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