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Pentagon: 2 U.S. Navy Boats Held by Iran Military

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posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 08:59 AM
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This is how I'm choosing to see this, for the moment at least.

If it was an accident: everyone came home safe, and that's good. No major international incident ratcheting up tensions resulted, and that's also good.

If it was some conspiratorial attempt at provoking conflict (I don't personally buy this theory - too unlikely to succeed in this form, too obvious, too public, etc. etc.) it failed. And that's good too.

If it was a clandestine attempt to extract an asset (I also am very skeptical of this for the same reasons,) if they failed, this is the only scenario with a significant downside, as there might be an asset we will never hear about trapped now. But as I said, I'm skeptical of this scenario.

If it was just a combination of human error, negligence, hamfisted-ness, and/or mischief, again, everyone came home safe, and while it's not good that it happened, that's ultimately what matters and is a good thing.

My father, for whatever reason (we don't always agree,) seemed to think (he's former special forces and briefly a CIA consultant in some capacity he's never elaborated on) it might be some disparate element within the Revolutionary Guard trying to scuttle the nuclear deal without the leadership's okay. I don't know about that, but if so, that too failed. And that's a good thing.

So, whatever theory one happens to cleave to (I myself prefer to remain agnostic about it,) nothing - that we know of or have any compelling reason to believe - has arisen from this incident. And that's a good thing.

That's how I'm choosing to characterize this. "All's well that ends well." In this region, especially now, that's a good thing. I think sometimes our need for there to be "something going on" overrides our ability to simply step back and say, "Okay, maybe there really is nothing more to this." Sometimes humans just do less than rational stuff and stuff goes awry. Maybe that's really all there is to it.

Peace.




posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: laminatedsoul
a reply to: haman10

Wow.

they were released.

where does that leave your rhetoric now?


I think you're quoting the wrong person mate . maybe you've mistaken me from someone else .



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

They screwed up and the Navy tried to put the best spin possible on it to keep from admitting they screwed up.
edit on 1/14/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 03:41 PM
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A Three Hour Tour


originally posted by: grey580
I'm starting to get the impression that the 2 boats where doing something stupid when they go caught.

Maybe they were water skiing and didn't notice where they were.

lol

Water skiing would have been more productive than straying off course, inadvertently entering Iran's territorial waters and surrendering themselves and their vessels to foreign control. The IRGC reported observing "unprofessional behavior" for about 40 minutes before responding and detaining the boats and their crews. It would be most interesting to know what they meant by that.

Based on photographs and videos thoughtfully published by the government of Iran -- showing U.S. sailors on their knees, hands clasped behind their heads, with the stars and stripes waving proudly behind them -- the detentions occurred during daylight hours on calm seas with partial cloud cover and visibility extending to the horizon. That would seem to rule out high winds, rough seas or poor visibility as contributing factors.

In the age of GPS, we can also reasonably rule out compass, sextant, ring dial, hourglass, quadrant, cross staff, backstaff, chip log errors or important features obscured by illustrations of dragons on their navigational charts. It is also unlikely (though theoretically possible) that the navigation systems on both boats failed simultaneously, but the fact that the IRGC reported being able to determine the boats' navigational histories by examining the onboard GPS units (presumably during their detailed searches, inspections and cataloging of the vessels' crews and contents) suggests they were functional throughout the voyage.

The videotaped statements made by the apparent officer in charge indicate that a "misunderstanding" led to their entering Iranian territorial waters (and that they were sorry). It's not clear what the "engine issues" he mentioned may have been, but the subsequent comments credited to Defense Department officials and prompt return of both boats under their own power argue against a major engine failure.

To speculate (as we tend to do), it's possible that the "engine issues" could have involved something like a stuck throttle, or jet, or some other malfunction that may have caused a loss of control of one of the boats which, in turn, led to unintentional entry. But even in that scenario, the immediate action would have been to shut down the engines until control was restored, not allow a lengthy period of uncontrolled movement. Whatever the issues, they were resolved by the time the vessels were returned the next day.

Perhaps IRGC mechanics repaired them as a courtesy to their guests.

Gunboat Diplomacy

To their credit, the sailors did not resist when confronted by the IRGC, which prevented gross negligence from escalating into assault and potentially manslaughter or murder, which would have been acts that violate the laws of Iran (the jurisdiction where this occurred) and are prohibited by and punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice regardless of local jurisdiction (10 USC 918-928, Articles 118, 119, 128).

Suggestions that U.S. vessels should have, without authorization, entered the waters of a sovereign nation and opened fire on its citizens are without merit or support under military, federal or constitutional law. Thankfully, those involved were apparently aware of this.

It would be reassuring if more members of Congress, who are directly responsible for the creation and revision of U.S. law, were also aware of this, or at least were to educate themselves more carefully about their responsibilities, act accordingly and refrain from making public comments that bring discredit to the United States of America. In fact, it would be refreshing and welcome if more Americans in general were to do that.

I really don't like being an armchair quarterback about military operations, because in the real world bad things happen, even to the best of the best, and I have utmost respect for anyone willing to take the oath, serve their nation and "walk the walk". It's also presumptuous to speak without knowing all the details, and as we're painfully aware, they are rarely forthcoming in any case, let alone controversial military incidents overseas.

But absent something truly extraordinary that hasn't been reported (GPS spoofing? Geomagnetic anomalies? Alien abductions? Mind control rays? Something more mundane but plausible?), it all comes back to there being no credible excuse for U.S. sailors entering a dangerous and restricted area without authorization and being captured by unfriendly forces.*

That's really not supposed to happen, whether in peacetime, wartime or anything in between, and unless the Navy finds out exactly what did happen and takes steps to prevent recurrences, it could happen again, and with a much less fortunate outcome.

Thus we can expect the Navy is scrupulously investigating this matter with utmost diligence, and though we may never know all the details, we can rest assured the lessons learned will be shared by all concerned.

I imagine the debriefing interviews for the boat captains and crews were... fruitful.








* To be fair, it does appear the IRGC was admirably hospitable in its treatment of its unexpected visitors, so maybe not so unfriendly, but nonetheless, relying upon that hospitality is not the vocation of the United States Navy.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 03:50 PM
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Do the US sailors all speak fluent Iranian?

Otherwise, IMO, they got off very very lightly .....

thinkprogress.org...





posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:05 PM
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The 10 US sailors who were held by Iran before being released on Wednesday made a navigational mistake that led them into Iranian waters but did not communicate that to Navy commanders before being intercepted, the US military said on Thursday.

US Defense Secretary Ash Carter said the information came from debriefings of the sailors, who were flown on Wednesday to a US military facility in Qatar after Iran released them along with their two riverine boats.
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“They did not report this navigational error at the time. It may be that they were trying to sort it out at the time they encountered the Iranian boats and discovered they were inside of the territorial waters of Iran,” Carter said in the interview, which took place in Miami.
Link


No mention of a break down. Maybe that was just face saving talk for the breaking news.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Majic

A brand new LCS suffered a dual propulsion failure while in transit to its home port. No screw up needed. In 2010 the USS New York suffered a dual bearing failure. You're talking the equivalent of a fishing boat with these craft. They break, no help needed. Sometimes in bad places.


Problem is there were TWO of them. TWO boats. Notice the picture where ALL the guns were removed from the GUN BOAT that made the Iranian boats look pathetic in comparison. No way in hell did those boats just stray into enemy waters. The Carrier Strike group along with the French carrier in the area were ready to make the coast of Iran a wasteland so what really happened???



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

They screwed up and the Navy tried to put the best spin possible on it to keep from admitting they screwed up.


Shocking coming from an AirForce fan boy lol. The Navy is the most professional group of the bunch and TWO boats are not going to fail or just stray anywhere they do not intend to be. They do not use boats like that to travel 500 miles in the open seas. They are RIVER OR COASTAL ASSAULT BOATS. Give me a break. This has Obama needs a distraction written all over it.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: Blackmarketeer



They didn't get their war on. The MIC is bummed.


Judging by the facts of the story that was probably the REAL intention anyway. Make the dems and Obama look like they can just wave their magic phone at the enemy while waving their pens at the American people. Since Hillary is doing so so well ya know.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

They screwed up and the Navy tried to put the best spin possible on it to keep from admitting they screwed up.


Shocking coming from an AirForce fan boy lol. The Navy is the most professional group of the bunch and TWO boats are not going to fail or just stray anywhere they do not intend to be. They do not use boats like that to travel 500 miles in the open seas. They are RIVER OR COASTAL ASSAULT BOATS. Give me a break. This has Obama needs a distraction written all over it.


Obama needs a distraction from low has prices, a growing economy, record breaking job growth, ISIS in retreat, Iran meeting its part of the nuke deal? What would he need a distraction from? And they do not travel in open seas the travel in coastal waters. And they make the trip between Kuwait and Bahrain fairly often it less than 300 miles. Going off course while one dealt with engine trouble is not shocking. It happens. Ships and plane go off course. And if the US wanted to make this into something they would have started off with public threats instead of making a phone call. Trying to make this into more than it was is just silly.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 06:37 PM
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I sense a false flag-pretext-for-military escalation in the midst...



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Gh0stwalker

Ya think???

line 2



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

This coming from the guy claiming to have served on nuclear subs and didn't even know they produce their own oxygen.

And unlike you, I was actually on the ramp. I'm far from a fanboy. I spent years seeing just how professional the Navy is. Dumping fuel on the ramp, whining when they couldn't get hangar space to do work that could be done on the ramp, bringing in aircraft that had major problems and sitting for days waiting on parts....
edit on 1/14/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

BOOOOooooo!!! BOOOOooooooo!!!

(from the peanut gallery)

There was NO engine trouble! The economy is NOT growing. Record breaking job growth????? ISIS in retreat???? You must be kidding!!! How about record breaking people OUT of the work force!

BOOOOoooooo!

BOOOOoooooo!!

edit...ISIS is expanding exponentially!! You must be watching too much CNN and MSNBC!!!





edit on 1/14/2016 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

That's why naval officers have to be such hardasses.

Because squids.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 10:27 PM
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a reply to: Majic

Many of these WERE officers.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Well, maybe there should have been more NCO's!





posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 10:43 PM
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Sorry for what amounts to nothing more than a meta-observation, but this is turning into a really awesome thread.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 11:32 PM
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What do you expect, we already know now what this president wants, cowering to the rest of the world. Pathetic, and those soldiers with their hands on their heads, haha terrible...

They should never have allowed themselves to be taken like that, but Obama's orders are to stand down, stand down against every engagement... Making our soldiers look like fairies...



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

Yes, two ships both experienced failure and drifted ....




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