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A Polemic Regarding the Orwellian Left

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posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker
Nikki Haley is not a democrat. A lot of "right" think Trump is mean and not president material. Illusion runs deep this election for sure.




posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Nothing to assume.

Stooping to labelling Trump a racist and any that may or do support him falls into one of those three categories.

It is insulting, false, political diatribe and merits the response I gave. You feel honor bound to defend those that accuse others of racism without any proof?

I am not restricted by PC and offer no modification to that post whatsoever. Morons, shills or political hacks.

Afterthought. The OP gave numerous rebuttals to these claims with no reasonable response. If reasonable response achieves no result, then all that remains is labelling back with at least the alternate options....there are three.....




I respect your point of view and experience of the situations as described, if I hadn't experienced bias in myself and others and seen the round and round without a seeming beginning or end, its doubtful Id defend people holding bias for or against things with more bias solving nothing...live and let live, I'd defend anyone being attacked... especially in a forum setting where little by little we can chip away the bias... yes it can seem like a bird sharpening is beak on a mountain til it become a singular grain of sand... as futile as it seems to stand up for everyone against their and others ignorance that solves nothing as a mediator to promote peace, understanding, and some tolerance in a forum setting instead of being a game of ping pong back and forth where is post tries to one up or sum total some win... why because no one wins in such a climate of dialogue except the wound that we refuse to let heal... so of course we are going to keep reopening it battle after battle until we become so polarized in cognitive dissonance and defense against personal attacks... when everyone feels they have a right to express their opinions based on their experience no matter how limited that may seem to an observer looking at the subjectivity of the situation... right and wrong is a spinning coin, hedging bets on which way it lands is pointless as with each utterance its blowing on the damn thing keeping it all spinning... and in such a climate then indeed it is 100% a futility as bias cannot cease by adding more fuel of bias to the spinning fire that consumes everything.

In such a place? yes it is going to look more and more like an actual hell as time goes on without people willing to hear everyone out with their bias holstered or melted into something that sustains the what if possibility that runs counter to taking aim and opening fire on anything one does not like or agree with... religion will become tantamount and belief and faith will run wild simply because any place even death would be better to suffer a place so unbearable and hostile with no hope for change when we have the full power to do so if we make that a conscious intent. self defense isnt needed at all when a topic is broached with objectivity an unwritten agreement with oneself that they are going to go into the topic with an open mind and heart to stand in someones shoes if they havent worn them before, in order to get a full view of the situation as an aid to clarity instead of playing the fool and just rushing in... because that is closing ones eyes and just randomly swinging nonsensically yet with great purpose like wheels spinning in mud that cant break free from the rut without a bit of help to leverage things away from such a dire and drastic situation in which nothing is solved except seating issues deeper by creating even more division...

guess what would happen if each and every idealists dream became real for the society in which they wanted to live? all christain or all muslim, all buddhist, all racist etc etc? all united away from others that do not share the same ideal and no possibility to contact them either? Well... human nature, little by little a slight here a ker#le there and next thing you know? this perfect little uptopia starts disintegrating... dissent can lead to understanding in the whole, or it can lead to further speration eventually becoming the exact same thing before the utopia was established.

Trump being someone looking to take a position of leadership that becomes the official talking head for America to everyone else with a bias so polarizing before hand that has fanned the flames of xenophobia found in others only seems to have tossed fuel on both sides, which will cause us to be consumed and drawn into more and more conflict... sure some would love that people with the OPs namesake for instance: misanthrope; if you hate people and every time youve opened yourself up in an effort to see something different... only to be handed the same nonsense over and over senselessly? of course youre going to want everything and everyone to destroy itself because thats exactly what one deserves to reap by keeping on planting that same seed, and perhaps some society could rise like a phoenix from the ashes and maintain some decorum at least for a little while before the curse of consciousness that refuses to accept a second hand experience called anothers point of view.

So him being inflammatory; intentional or not has a dangerous outcome to both sides... and not something that will bring progress unless one defines progress as the absolute destruction of everything the majority of the world holds dear... the UK wants to ban Trump, is anyone happy with how our neighbors across whatever made up line of demarcation with how people that do not share their view of life represent them to others? very very iffy situation when someone wishing the office polarizes so strongly... whether thats intentional, the best solution he has based on history for the situation, or just being an attention whore hoping that mutes everyone else forcing him a win... is the unknown. of course, even knowing this I'm very happy to give him the benefit of the doubt... just like everyone in this thread armed with bias and CD that aids in no lasting solutions.

I dont feel like a martyr willingly flagellating myself against peoples walls in the name of tolerance that can lead to oh so much understanding if people give themselves and others the chance for it.

anyhoo before I digress any further... good morning everyone from my current time on the planet if yours isnt/wasnt good I hope it gets better, and if it isnt/wasnt bad ditto.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: SkyNetBeware
The only way to prove anything to a racist is to have them undergo several years of psychotherapy to get them beyond denial and self-shame. There's a strong association between racism and climate change denialism, and if you can't convince a science denier with facts relating to laws of physics, how are you to prove anything on any other issue?


Sounds like you wrote the book on it. But that's the thing about charlatans: they can sound like pretty much anything. Racism, climate change denialism, and next probably witchcraft and animal abuse. Next thing you know, we'll hear about it all in an al-shabaab video.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker
Nikki Haley is not a democrat. A lot of "right" think Trump is mean and not president material. Illusion runs deep this election for sure.



I couldn't agree more. Many in both camps dislike him.

What you miss is many dislike both camps. I will let you in on a little secret....so does he.

That makes him more 'qualified' than any of the others, in my books.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: SkyNetBeware
The only way to prove anything to a racist is to have them undergo several years of psychotherapy to get them beyond denial and self-shame. There's a strong association between racism and climate change denialism, and if you can't convince a science denier with facts relating to laws of physics, how are you to prove anything on any other issue?


So what you are saying is that the only way to get someone to agree with you is to brainwash them?
eek, I dunno if that is a ringing endorsement or not.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I read both your posts in full. Very good read. Nothing to add to that - just that it is very true, and a very good piece of writing on your part.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

In this nation, we may very well be the last generation who knows freedom. There are so many laws on the books now between the Patriot Act the NDAA and more, that the next president that goes into office can begin actually enacting all these things, and our lives change fundamentally forever.

So I see us as on this precipise, about to go over the edge. We have two possibilities, have our next president begin to repeal some of these laws, bring us back to where we were, get back some of our constitution that we lost, or our next president will enact them and add to them.

Two choices, and we have seen where left wing politicians will take us, straight off the cliff. If that happens, we will loose our freedom and it will be until the generation comes who will fight - but at that point freedom will only be regained through bloodshed, and is not the legacy I want to leave my children someday.

So the next president needs to be someone who might repeal these laws, take us back to more freedom and not less.

Will Trump do it? I don't know, but of all who are running, he may just have the gumption to do it. It is rather a toss up on that, could all be lies, we have been lied to before, or it could be real, or real enough at least to be a help and not a disaster straight down the cliff.

If it comes to it, I will vote for Trump, because if that time comes, it might be the only answer we have to left wing policies and the bloodshed of our grandchildren and great grandchildren.

We have to do something, we are about to loose everything.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: SkyNetBeware

Trump has said he is not racist. So it is his word vs. yours, whom I think I can safely say, is a person who has never met him.

Given the insincerity of your remarks, and your proclivity to believe what people tell you to, I can completely regard your entire post as rubbish.





Most racists don't advertise it... Usually you have to discern it from the words they use, or the policies they propose when you are talking about politicians.

If he is not racist, he does a good job impersonating one.


That's false. Nazis, The KKK or The New Black Panthers have no problem being racist.

If you're going to charge someone with something, you better be able to prove it, so prove it.




Neither does Donald Trump.

He is a racist and follows in the steps of historic fascists who used nationalism and bigotry to garner considerable support
from the homogenous population who needs a place to direct their ire.


The very founder of America's prominent White Supremacist website attributes a surge in traffic to Donald Trump and his rhetoric.


"In an interview with Politico, Don Black, founder of Stormfront, a white supremacist website, attributed a surge in the site's traffic to Trump's campaign.


"Demoralization has been the biggest enemy and Trump is changing all that,” he told the news outlet. "He’s certainly creating a movement that will continue independently of him."



www.usnews.com...



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: Kitana

Well said.

It covers my feelings on the matter well. The only point I'd word differently is the repealing laws part.

That would be the ideal situation but it isn't going to happen, methinks. Presidents don't have that power, Constitutionally.

I suspect it would have to be more along the line of following Obama's methodology. Executive order, and decree. 'Memos' and the like. Even that probably wouldn't work. Obama largely operates off of Quid Pro Quo. He'd give each department Carte Blanche to enact their wish-lists in exchange for supporting his agenda.

Unprecedented EPA powers. Federal backing for Common Core. Bringing the military into line with liberal agendas. Immigration, Continuing and expanding the Patriot Act. The ACA. Now the TPP....

He's pretty much let the boys run wild and loose to get what he wants, silent acceptance of his own agenda.

I highly doubt any new 'President' who is inclined to reverse this is likely to get support from the Bureaucracy or anyone else....including Judicial.

It would take what would be seen as draconian acts to reverse the trend. Immediate withdrawing from the WTO. Import tariffs on China and other underpaying third world manufacturing nations. Cancelling the TPP. Enforcing extant Immigration, criminal and other laws. Returning powers to the States via ignoring federal Statutes that violate the Tenth. Closing down whole departments, such as Education, which encroach on state powers.

Could he get away with some or most of these? Maybe. IF he has the time for the common man to see the results of them, he might 'not get assassinated'. He'd have to do it fast as four years is all he'd have to show results.

Sounds more like a Tom Clancy novel than reality. Not likely to happen.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

What gets me, is people's attitudes. Even around here its this pervasive attitude of looking to the government for everything. It's like people cannot perceive of not having the government giving them everything. Once in this country there was no welfare, yet communities took care of their own. Knew who was in need and what the needs were, and helped out.

Were there times people only had beans to eat? Yes, but they survived. They hunted, they ate beans, the communities banded together and helped. Today, people say, they are in need, they need to ask the government for help, and do little if anything at all to help, after all, they pay their taxes.

There was never a day in this country that we did not have the ability to kill another human being. We learned morals, that it is bad to kill people who do you no harm, we learned that not everyone you meet in life will like you, or agree with you, and that is okay too. We learned people had differences of opinion, and everyone was entitled to their own. Kids never went to school killing everyone in sight because they knew right from wrong.

We stopped learning those things now, we stopped teaching them to others. Were some times bad? Yes, did the Hatfield and McCoy's have it out? Yes..Was everything a bed of roses all the time? No, but that also was life, some good times, some bad times, we do what we can, and we are free.

It was freedom that was most important, more important than our own lives at times. My great grandparents lived through the great depression without government help, and they survived, and raised children. And taught my grandparents about what it meant to be free.

Now, everyone's hand is out. What will the government give us? What do we think they owe us? What needs built so we can ask the government? What road needs refinished so we can ask the government? Oh the government gave to us so the government is wonderful.

Where is community, where is respect of life, where is working together in any of that? No one can conceive of a time when they don't have the government to go to for each and every single problem.

When did this happen? And where? At what point was the turning point from which there was no going back, from which we now find ourselves in the middle of a complete takeover of our country and way of life?

And how, in the end, do we find the road back to freedom, the freedom we heard about on our fathers knee, at the feet of our grandfathers?

I think, in the end, it is our own faults. We messed up, and let ignorance creep in, and forgot just how important freedom really is, and even its meaning. Freedom for us, means freedom for others. It means our feelings will be hurt, it means we must help one another, it means looking to those who are closest to us and not those who know us least, it means dying sometimes, and knowing that no one makes it out of this alive, so you may as well do it right, if you are going to do it at all. It means knowing that we are not blind deaf and dumb, and that we have abilities that can work for us, and that we are self sufficient and independent persons who should be, and can be, proud of the work of our own hands.

It means changing the very fabric of our modern way of thinking.

And that, might just be too much for most people. All these laws, all these politicians, are products of expecting others to do for us, to give to us; a product of giving up on ourselves and each other. That is a battle, we may have no way of winning. One man in office, can never change that. Only people can change that, in themselves, and for themselves.


edit on 14-1-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: nwtrucker

What gets me, is people's attitudes. Even around here its this pervasive attitude of looking to the government for everything. It's like people cannot perceive of not having the government giving them everything. Once in this country there was no welfare, yet communities took care of their own. Knew who was in need and what the needs were, and helped out.

Were there times people only had beans to eat? Yes, but they survived. They hunted, they ate beans, the communities banded together and helped. Today, people say, they are in need, they need to ask the government for help, and do little if anything at all to help, after all, they pay their taxes.

There was never a day in this country that we did not have the ability to kill another human being. We learned morals, that it is bad to kill people who do you no harm, we learned that not everyone you meet in life will like you, or agree with you, and that is okay too. We learned people had differences of opinion, and everyone was entitled to their own. Kids never went to school killing everyone in sight because they knew right from wrong.

We stopped learning those things now, we stopped teaching them to others. Were some times bad? Yes, did the Hatfield and McCoy's have it out? Yes..Was everything a bed of roses all the time? No, but that also was life, some good times, some bad times, we do what we can, and we are free.

It was freedom that was most important, more important than our own lives at times. My great grandparents lived through the great depression without government help, and they survived, and raised children. And taught my grandparents about what it meant to be free.

Now, everyone's hand is out. What will the government give us? What do we think they owe us? What needs built so we can ask the government? What road needs refinished so we can ask the government? Oh the government gave to us so the government is wonderful.

Where is community, where is respect of life, where is working together in any of that? No one can conceive of a time when they don't have the government to go to for each and every single problem.

When did this happen? And where? At what point was the turning point from which there was no going back, from which we now find ourselves in the middle of a complete takeover of our country and way of life?

And how, in the end, do we find the road back to freedom, the freedom we heard about on our fathers knee, at the feet of our grandfathers?

I think, in the end, it is our own faults. We messed up, and let ignorance creep in, and forgot just how important freedom really is, and even its meaning. Freedom for us, means freedom for others. It means our feelings will be hurt, it means we must help one another, it means looking to those who are closest to us and not those who know us least, it means dying sometimes, and knowing that no one makes it out of this alive, so you may as well do it right, if you are going to do it at all. It means knowing that we are not blind deaf and dumb, and that we have abilities that can work for us, and that we are self sufficient and independent persons who should be, and can be, proud of the work of our own hands.

It means changing the very fabric of our modern way of thinking.

And that, might just be too much for most people. All these laws, all these politicians, are products of expecting others to do for us, to give to us; a product of giving up on ourselves and each other. That is a battle, we may have no way of winning. One man in office, can never change that. Only people can change that, in themselves, and for themselves.



IT's so ironic because the biggest hands that are out are the corporations and wealthy who think they are entitled to rule America's political system and economy.

All you attitude goes to do is shift polices aimed to help the common American and provided benefit to the elites in hopes that they will spread their glory to the pee ons.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: yesyesyes

Socialism solves nothing, it makes no country better, it never has. Look at China, working conditions there, look at Venezuela, Link Socialist policies don't work. Not in real life.

Free healthcare for all, means higher taxes. Higher taxes hurts the poorest more than the richest. And who foots the bill for everything? The poorest. This is life, no one gets out alive, some people die, and some of those people die in hospitals with healthcare.

Raising minimum wage means higher wages for all, because the manager needs paid more than the worker because they have more responsibility. And higher pay for all, means higher prices for all. So it does nothing but drive prices up, and companies out of this country and not toward it looking to create jobs. If you don't like what you are paid, wait for a better paying job, hold your ground if you are determined. Here, One full time 9 dollar an hour job supports a family of 4 without need of welfare. Live smart, you don't need to own everything a wealthy man does when you are poor. If you are rich, help the poor in your communities. It is good and brings community together when we do for each other.

Socialist policies don't work, and we don't need more laws, we need the ones we have enforced. We have laws aplenty, they just need enforced.

We need to stop voting for the people who will only degrade our country economically through such policies, and start voting for those who will help to improve it. Socialism is not the answer, nor are socialist policies and laws. Taking responsibility for ourselves is the first step. The second, is to stop voting for these things, that do more harm than good.



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: yesyesyes

Socialism solves nothing, it makes no country better, it never has. Look at China, working conditions there, look at Venezuela, Link Socialist policies don't work. Not in real life.

Free healthcare for all, means higher taxes. Higher taxes hurts the poorest more than the richest. And who foots the bill for everything? The poorest. This is life, no one gets out alive, some people die, and some of those people die in hospitals with healthcare.

Raising minimum wage means higher wages for all, because the manager needs paid more than the worker because they have more responsibility. And higher pay for all, means higher prices for all. So it does nothing but drive prices up, and companies out of this country and not toward it looking to create jobs. If you don't like what you are paid, wait for a better paying job, hold your ground if you are determined. Here, One full time 9 dollar an hour job supports a family of 4 without need of welfare. Live smart, you don't need to own everything a wealthy man does when you are poor. If you are rich, help the poor in your communities. It is good and brings community together when we do for each other.

Socialist policies don't work, and we don't need more laws, we need the ones we have enforced. We have laws aplenty, they just need enforced.

We need to stop voting for the people who will only degrade our country economically through such policies, and start voting for those who will help to improve it. Socialism is not the answer, nor are socialist policies and laws. Taking responsibility for ourselves is the first step. The second, is to stop voting for these things, that do more harm than good.



Socialism?

You don't need socialism to increase the minimum wage - you are taking it too far.

As for your last line, stop voting for "conservatives" open you eyes and look at the economic performance between Bush and Obama

Bush took the economy down, Obama has brought it up. Facts


edit on 14-1-2016 by yesyesyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2016 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Naw.. it got all politicky and ranty after the first few paragraphs.. another missive blaming stuff on other people. It's get tedious after a while because nothing changes.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 02:34 AM
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I can't believe we will have a year on ATS of listening how the democrats are to blame for the republican failures. Boring.



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 02:51 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3 conservative fox watchers love to play the underdog and blame other scape goats so they don't have to practice what they preach about personal responsibility. Not when they can blame someone else for their own failings



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

But this tactic is every where! Even the guests on CSPAN. I can see how this election year is going and it will be so boring. Every time an issue is brought up, the republican always finds a non sensible way to bring in obama/leftists. Are delusional and illusions the same thing?



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 03:03 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3 republicans have no one to blame this year, the election should be theirs for the taking. They even have the big D this time. So excuses will not be acceptable this time round. It's all in their favour defeat is not an option



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 03:04 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: SkyNetBeware

Trump has said he is not racist. So it is his word vs. yours, whom I think I can safely say, is a person who has never met him.

Given the insincerity of your remarks, and your proclivity to believe what people tell you to, I can completely regard your entire post as rubbish.



Most racists don't advertise it... Usually you have to discern it from the words they use, or the policies they propose when you are talking about politicians.

If he is not racist, he does a good job impersonating one.


That's false. Nazis, The KKK or The New Black Panthers have no problem being racist.

If you're going to charge someone with something, you better be able to prove it, so prove it.


You are really just suffering from a huge level of denial. Donald Trumps rhetoric pits two groups against each other in the same way the Black Panthers or KKK conduct rhetoric.

It really is the truth.

It is also true that Donald Trump is an upfront, straightforward guy, the two things can be present in one man. It just so happens that he loves to engage in dogwhistle, racist rhetoric. Sometimes your lucky, and sometimes you ain't...



posted on Jan, 15 2016 @ 03:07 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: woodwardjnr

But this tactic is every where! Even the guests on CSPAN. I can see how this election year is going and it will be so boring. Every time an issue is brought up, the republican always finds a non sensible way to bring in obama/leftists. Are delusional and illusions the same thing?

'
Obama destroying America, he is buying ISIS plane tickets here out of his own personal bank account.

Mexico is intentionally catapulting their Rapists over the I-5 freeway into San Diego and then Obama is sending them a free Obama phone and copy of Karl Marx.


Damn you Obama




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