Originally posted by Off_The_Street
A communist or even an anarcho-capitalist economic system could've implemented the same terrible things as the fascists did.

Perhaps. But it was, in fact, Hitler and his fascist thugs who perpetrated the crimes. This country is headed straight down the same path, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
A communist or even an anarcho-capitalist economic system could've implemented the same terrible things as the fascists did.

Perhaps. But it was, in fact, Hitler and his fascist thugs who perpetrated the crimes. This country is headed straight down the same path, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

LOL That is very funny...really. WE ARE NOT HEADING DOWN THE SAME PATH AS NAZI GERMANY! I know. My Oma & Opa lived through NAZI Germany. I have asked him twice of his opinion of America. His reply, roughly paraphrased: "Not prefect by any stretch, but better than most". This is from a guy that had to hide from the SS. I think he would be in a better position than any of us to quantify if America was going Fascist.
Damnit people get off of the hysteria juice will ya.

Is our govt. instituting plans that are "NAZI"? NO! Could they be used to hurt America...YES!
Ask yourself this: "What was America during World War II?"
America was under even more stringent control during that war. Did we back away from it? Some.

I will say this at heart I am a Libertarian. I would like nothing more than for the USA to put a huge wall around our country, allow open quota legal immigration, get rid of income taxes, pull every troop we have out of every stinking country, make this country the biggest fort the world has ever seen, and while I smoke a legal joint let the rest of the world go to S***. But that is not going to happen any more than the US will become a Socialist or Fascist country overnight because of Bush.
Will this Republic fall? YES
Will it fall soon because of Bush and CO.? NO
Is this the beginning? NO
It began a long time before Bush.

I said:

"A communist or even an anarcho-capitalist economic system could've implemented the same terrible things as the fascists did."

To which EastCoastKid Replied:

"Perhaps. But it was, in fact, Hitler and his fascist thugs who perpetrated the crimes. This country is headed straight down the same path, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not."

EastCoastKid, you seem to be hung up on the term "fascism" (which is an economic system), with the dictatorship of Hitler (which is a political system) and his evils (which is a moral system -- or immoral, in this case). The political and moral aspects were the ones which did the truly terrible things, which included depriving the Germans of their freedom and selected minorities, especially the Jews, of their very lives.

You say "This country is headed straight down the same path, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.", and I agree that we are tending towards more and more of a nationalist and imperialist foreign policy (which has its advantages and disadvantages), as well as a statist, anti-freedom, overly authoritan domestic policy (which is a horrid thing indeed), but I don't see us going after the Jews or the Gypsies (or, to put it within our present context, the Blacks or the Hispanics).

What I need to make clear, is that, even though we use it as a curse-word, fascism, as an economic system is not inherently evil except where it gives the State control over the means of production by fostering an alliance with business cartels.

But communism, especially a la Lenin and Stalin, takes complete control of the means of production, which means it deprives everyone of their wealth.

You need to understand that any economic system which controls the wealth, whether it is socialism or fascism, will not work unless you provide a strong State with the strength and resources to force the citizens to give up their wealth. And this whole concept of forcing the citizens requires a police force, and, ultimately, secret police, neighborhood informers, etc.

In other words, a police state.

Both socialism and fascism, by their very nature, rely on the government using force to take away the citizens' property and, ultimately, their rights. So from a freedom point of view, there's not much difference between the fascism of Adolf Hitler and the socialism of Josef Stalin.

Both of these morally bankrupt pseudo-philosophies, like their bastard stepchildren "neo-conservatism" and "Kennedy Liberalism", are enemies of freedom and free people.



[edit on 26-1-2005 by Off_The_Street]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
fascism, as an economic system is not inherently evil except where it gives the State control over the means of production by fostering an alliance with business cartels.

By your very own statement, you have shown that this idea is true. The state has fostered these alliances with the business cartels. Look at the Carlysle group, or Halibourton. Its obviouse for anyone willing to open thier eyes that this country is not a democracy, nor has it been for a while. We are heading down a road from which we are not allowed to turn around.

Those who deny the reality that this administration is fascist, lives in the same bizarre alternative universe as they do. Congratulations. By the time you finally do figure it out, it will be too late to do anything about it.

EastCoastKid, why don't you define "fascist"? Maybe your definition is different than mine.

Are you talking "fascist" as being an economic system?

Are you talking "fascist" as being a synonym for dictatorship?

Are you talking "fascist" as being a synonym for murdering selected minorities?

You know, we might well be in agreement here.

Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
fascism, as an economic system is not inherently evil except where it gives the State control over the means of production by fostering an alliance with business cartels.

By your very own statement, you have shown that this idea is true. The state has fostered these alliances with the business cartels. Look at the Carlysle group, or Halibourton. Its obviouse for anyone willing to open thier eyes that this country is not a democracy, nor has it been for a while. We are heading down a road from which we are not allowed to turn around.

KF: How many time must we go over this? America is not, nor never has been a democracy. It is a Constitutional Representative Republic. It is like talking to a damn wall.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana


KF: How many time must we go over this? America is not, nor never has been a democracy. It is a Constitutional Representative Republic.

Constitutional Representative Republic=Democracy................

It is like talking to a damn wall.

Then quit talking.