Today's Conservatives Are Fascists, page 1

posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 01:59 PM

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It's past time for REPUBLICANS to stand up and say loud and clear NEO CONSERVATIVES are NOT Republicans at all! They are FASCIST leftie psychos who co-opted the conservative movement under an unwitting George W. Bush.

January 3, 2005
Today's Conservatives
Are Fascists
Torture, dictatorship, phony "elections,"
and endless war � it's fascism
with a "democratic" face
by Justin Raimondo
The idea that today's conservatives are in any way defenders of individual liberty, the free market, and what Russell Kirk called "the permanent things," i.e., the sacred traditions that have accumulated over time to constitute the core of our Judeo-Christian culture, is no longer a defensible proposition. Instead, what used to be called the conservative movement has morphed, almost overnight, into a coterie of moral monsters, whose political program is one of unmitigated evil.

My good friend Lew Rockwell has recently come to this conclusion:

"Year's end is the time for big thoughts, so here are mine. The most significant socio-political shift in our time has gone almost completely unremarked, and even unnoticed. It is the dramatic shift of the red-state bourgeoisie from leave-us-alone libertarianism, manifested in the Congressional elections of 1994, to almost totalitarian statist nationalism. Whereas the conservative middle class once cheered the circumscribing of the federal government, it now celebrates power and adores the central state, particularly its military wing. � What this implies for libertarians is a crying need to draw a clear separation between what we believe and what conservatives believe. It also requires that we face the reality of the current threat forthrightly by extending more rhetorical tolerance leftward and less rightward."

Various libertarian scholars and writers � see here, here, and here � seem to be drawing the same broad conclusions. I might add, for the record, that I reached a similar conclusion a couple of years ago, except that, far from abandoning my efforts to reach out to authentic (i.e., old-style) right-wingers, this merely accelerated my efforts to split off the authentic Remnant from the neoconized conservative movement.
antiwar.com...

junglejake

posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 02:38 PM

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I like to call myself a neo-con. I'm also part of the religious right. I have the "Official Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" T-Shirt, along with several other Ts I find amusing, such as my liberal hunting liscense shirt (of course I don't want to kill liberals, and realize they need to be there or this country would go to hell in a hand basket really quickly without any opposition).

Now East, you knew me several months ago (I went away for a little bit). I'll leave it to you to label me in your own mind, but I see myself as a neo-con. And a pretty darn likable one, too

('cept for when I'm crabby

)

away

EastCoastKid

posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 04:55 PM

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Junglejake, do you even understand what a Neo Conservative is.. the ideology they came out of? Do you know they are not even conservative and do not share traditional Republican, or even Democratic ideals? They are fascists. A true Christian would never support them.

Herman

posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 10:34 PM

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I'm not going to get into this argument again ECK, but when you said "Facist-leftie psychos", it once again doesn't make sense...just like the word Neo-Con. Facism would be extreme right-wing.. Communism is the extreme form of left-wing. Just thought I would point this out...

brimstone735

posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 12:07 AM

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Originally posted by Herman
I'm not going to get into this argument again ECK, but when you said "Facist-leftie psychos", it once again doesn't make sense...just like the word Neo-Con. Facism would be extreme right-wing.. Communism is the extreme form of left-wing. Just thought I would point this out...

Yeah, remember that thing I said about complex and broad?

www.disinfopedia.org...

And I qoute...

"Neoconservatives constitute an intellectual current that emerged from the cold war liberalism of the Democratic Party. Unlike other elements of the conservative mainstream, neoconservatives have historical social roots in liberal and leftist politics. Disillusioned first with socialism and communism and later with new Democrats (like George McGovern) who came to dominate the Democratic Party in the 1970s, neoconservatives played a key role in boosting the New Right into political dominance in the 1980s"

Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz were brought to together by their teacher, neo conservative luminary, Albert Wohlstetter to work under Democratic Senator Scoop Jackson.

Neo-conservatives follow the teachings of Leo Strauss, who fled Nazi Germany in 1937 and taught at the University of Chicago. Among other things, his philiosophy was basically that the world was a chess board. Some people are Kings and some people are Pawns. Pawns are to be sacrified, and Kings are to be protected. The Bishops make the decisions and the Knights carry them out. It's much more complex than that, but I don't want to be writing about it all night.

But, at it's core, the Neo-Conservative movement is a mutant. It's not really liberal or conservative...it's ANTI-HUMANITY. It's an exploitive parasite and not conservative at all. It's about the Machiavellian machinations of exploiting the religion of many to serve the power hungry needs of the few. And make no mistake, these men are about as religious as I am. They have contempt for the religious, I mean they really view the Religious Right as simple minded serfs, little people to be used. To them, religion is the crutch for the weak. If you say all the right things, you suddenly have an army of zealots and fanatics. True neo-conservatives are actually coldly rational followers of numbers and science

You see, that's the big joke. The term Neo-Conservative, or "New Conservative" is somebody's attempt at some dark humor. NEW replacing the OLD. If you're religious, you CAN'T be neo-conservative. True neo-conservatives are actually agnostic and athiest, and that's the truest indicator between the user and the used. It's the politics of deception.

If you're a true believer in the Testements or the Torah, pal, you are already on the outside.

And the only qaualification you need to join the inner circle? You just have to be as smart as they are, and then they'll welcome you with open arms. You see, in their minds, intelligence is what seperates the men from the animals. The leaders from the easily led.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by brimstone735]

Herman

posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 12:11 PM

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Look, we've already been over this again and again. You people don't read my posts carefully, or even consider that I might be right. All you do is repeat your argument that I've already put up an opposition too. Then you pretend like I'm not doing anything and "The truth hurts". I'm resisting temptation to repeat myself again. I only wanted to point out the contradiction in the term "liberal-facist" which is almost an oxymoron in it's own. A person or people can't be both. Plain and simple.

But seriously now. Maybe you can concentrate and put something up to compare the ways that yesterdays conservatives are different from today's "neo-conservatives" Do you think Bush sr. was a Neo-Conservatives? If so, it means that the neo-conservatives movement goes back pretty damned far. Politics do change. Maybe you can put up some kind of comparison thing that will show in actions and words how the two differ? A republican president from 20 years ago, and Bush?

brimstone735

posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 04:51 PM

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Originally posted by Herman
Look, we've already been over this again and again. You people don't read my posts carefully, or even consider that I might be right.

I give up. I shouldn't be arguing with a 17 year old in the first place, but I give up. You're a really bad Republican, I'll debate with you again when you get better at it.

Herman

posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 10:26 PM

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Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by Herman
Look, we've already been over this again and again. You people don't read my posts carefully, or even consider that I might be right.

I give up. I shouldn't be arguing with a 17 year old in the first place, but I give up. You're a really bad Republican, I'll debate with you again when you get better at it.

All I asked you to do was lay out your argument! Are you able to do that? I told you to tell me how todays republicans differ from the republicans of 20-30 years ago (Because that's exactly what ECK said to me. "Todays republicans are not what they were 20 years ago"). What's so hard about that? I'm trying to be open-minded here and consider your position. And I'm right, many people don't even consider my argument, they just jump immediately to find ways to contradict it. And if they can't, they just ignore it or repeat their previous statement. What have I said that's made you think I'm not "worthy" of your argument?

[edit on 8-1-2005 by Herman]

Kidfinger

posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 08:18 AM

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Originally posted by Herman
Communism is the extreme form of left-wing. Just thought I would point this out...

How is Communism of the extreme left? Liberals dont want the government to take over. That is obviously a Bush agenda. The Neocons are the side attempting to work thier spindly little fingers into every nook and cranny of everyones life. It was the Noecons who introduced the Patriot Acts 1 and 2. It was the Neocons who decided that since the majority of America would never gp fpr the Patriot act two, they would divide it up and sneek it pass everyone on the back of other bills as a small tack on. Im sorry Herman, but I fail to see where Communism is a representation of a Communist nation.

Kidfinger

posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 08:21 AM

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Originally posted by brimstone735

I give up. I shouldn't be arguing with a 17 year old in the first place, but I give up. You're a really bad Republican, I'll debate with you again when you get better at it.

Dont be so hard on Herman. Even though he is 17, at least he puts up a better and much more thought out debate than some of the other idiots on this board. I have yet to hear him result to petty name calling and deliberate lying.

Actually, I think we might be able to convert him to a Liberal Moderate side

He would be an asset to our party.

Herman

posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 11:20 AM

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Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by Herman
Communism is the extreme form of left-wing. Just thought I would point this out...

How is Communism of the extreme left? Liberals dont want the government to take over.

I know what you mean, and I used to think the same thing, but I learned differently in my govt. class. It makes some sense too. Liberals are more for absolute equality. Communism is the absolute (in ideology) form of equality. Republicans generally favor a smaller government. Extreme, and I mean EXTREME right-wingers are called reactionaries. Those are the jerks who are racist, think everyone else should leave this country, yada yada yada. If you had to use a label on them, you'd call them facists...or nazis haha. Someone who is the extreme for of left-wing would be called a radical. They would want to overthrow the government and everything to try to make it more equal. It's early...so my wording is horrible right now. Let me see if I can find an artical or something that makes it more clear.

Here's something.

It's in like...the 5th paragraph, towards the right. It seemed odd to me at first too, but I guess it's supposed to... Extremist logic usually is pretty odd!

Posted by Kidfinger[./i]
Actually, I think we might be able to convert him to a Liberal Moderate side
He would be an asset to our party.

No way, man

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Herman]

Young William

posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 10:34 PM
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Are you suggesting that the agendas of the GOP have become encircled by fear?

Kidfinger

posted on Jan, 9 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by Herman

It's in like...the 5th paragraph, towards the right. It seemed odd to me at first too, but I guess it's supposed to... Extremist logic usually is pretty odd!

A pretty intresting read, if a little leaned to the right, but intresting none the less. The articles analogy to Communism rest on this quote

The more government
regulation you support, the more left wing you are. The less government regulation you
support, the more right wing you are. According to this definition, Communism is the
extreme left wing.

The thing is, this is not accurate. Most of the Liberals I know dont want a big government. They want regulation on certain aspects of our lives:Safety, economy, and foreign policy. I know this is a general statement, but it would take three days of typing to get it all out. I will get into one aspect of this issue. Gun controle. Every conservative I have ever debated with here is under the impression that Liberals are out to take the guns away from American citizens. This is not true, and this is one of the complex aspects of the issue at hand. I will try and make this as brief as possible. Liberals, well, MOST Liberals--We both have our nut jobs--actually dont have a problem with you, or any one else owning a hand gun, or a hunting rifle. Where we have a problem is having the need to own a weapon of war. I mean, really, How hard would it be to kill a deer with an AK47? Why would you need an automatic weapon to put some meat on the table. AN assault rifle is just that, an ASSAULT rifle. It is not called a HUNTING rifle. There is a reason for that. Assault weapons are made to rip what ever you are shooting at to shreds. You should only need a gun for two reasons: hunting, and protecting yourself/home/family. I would be willing to bet that my 12 guage would stop ANYONE from hurting my family.

No way, man

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Herman]

You're getting sleepy....liberal............You're eyes are closing...........liberal..........you're getting veerrryyyy sleepy........Ann coltier is a schmuck........liberal...........lefty.............lean to the left...........When I count to ten, you will wake up. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. *snaping my finger* WAKE UP!

How do you feel Herman? Favoring the Left yet?

Herman

posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
The thing is, this is not accurate. Most of the Liberals I know dont want a big government. They want regulation on certain aspects of our lives:Safety, economy, and foreign policy. I know this is a general statement, but it would take three days of typing to get it all out.

I know what you mean. The political spectrum is extremely broad. Much larger than many people think. That's just the basic stereotype of extreme left-wing. Just like the stereotype for extreme right-wing is facism, even though that might not be entirely accurate. And I know what you mean about the gun control thing. Liberals want just that, control...not to take them away entirely.

You're getting sleepy....liberal............You're eyes are closing...........liberal..........you're getting veerrryyyy sleepy........Ann coltier is a schmuck........liberal...........lefty.............lean to the left...........When I count to ten, you will wake up. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. *snaping my finger* WAKE UP!

How do you feel Herman? Favoring the Left yet?

Bush is a crazy psycho right wing neo-con facist....AHHH!! It's working! NO!

[edit on 10-1-2005 by Herman]

EastCoastKid

posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
I'm not going to get into this argument again ECK, but when you said "Facist-leftie psychos", it once again doesn't make sense...just like the word Neo-Con. Facism would be extreme right-wing.. Communism is the extreme form of left-wing. Just thought I would point this out...

Herman, you're in over your head. If you do a little research starting with Leo Strauss, you will see what you currently do not understand.

EastCoastKid

posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by Herman
I'm not going to get into this argument again ECK, but when you said "Facist-leftie psychos", it once again doesn't make sense...just like the word Neo-Con. Facism would be extreme right-wing.. Communism is the extreme form of left-wing. Just thought I would point this out...

Yeah, remember that thing I said about complex and broad?

www.disinfopedia.org...

And I qoute...

"Neoconservatives constitute an intellectual current that emerged from the cold war liberalism of the Democratic Party. Unlike other elements of the conservative mainstream, neoconservatives have historical social roots in liberal and leftist politics. Disillusioned first with socialism and communism and later with new Democrats (like George McGovern) who came to dominate the Democratic Party in the 1970s, neoconservatives played a key role in boosting the New Right into political dominance in the 1980s"

Well, Herman, you should thank Brimstone for doing your homework for you. Excellent post, Brimstone.

EastCoastKid

posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by Herman
Look, we've already been over this again and again. You people don't read my posts carefully, or even consider that I might be right.

I give up. I shouldn't be arguing with a 17 year old in the first place, but I give up. You're a really bad Republican, I'll debate with you again when you get better at it.

Dude, don't you remember?! 17 year-olds know everything!
The world began with them!!!

Seriously though, Herman, it's great that you're interested in politics, but you have a lot to learn. And that's not a slam. If I was being mean, I wouldn't address you at all.

EastCoastKid

posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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For those of you out there unclear on FASCISM:

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt
Free Inquiry Magazine, Spring 2003
www.globalresearch.ca 7 November 2004
The URL of this article is: globalresearch.ca...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20).

Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:
globalresearch.ca...

Kidfinger

posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
[

Bush is a crazy psycho right wing neo-con facist....AHHH!! It's working! NO!

ITS WORKING! ITS WORKING!

One down, a whole poopload to go

EastCoastKid

posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Kidfinger
ITS WORKING! ITS WORKING!

One down, a whole poopload to go

And he doesn't even sense it.... Muahahahahahaha!