The Myths of Al Qaeda

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
You'd be amazed what the mainstream media doesn't tell you about.

(in General, not just on this topic, but)
......you'd be amazed at how often the secondary media is wrong and *huge shocker* biased

East Coast.....I was replying to two other posters, not yourself.

1.) motion knight's allegation that the 9/11 hijackers either didn't exist or weren't Islamic terrorists.

2.) Shai's allegation that the planes everyone saw hit the towers didn't really hit the towers and that they are in fact all still flying.



I'll debate all you want about whether or not some of our so-called allies such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Qatar had a hand in that tragedy. I don't deny that the CIA and Pentagon's black ops dating back to the 1960s played a role in formenting the global disease that is Wahhabism.

I am personally of the line of thinking that the Global Sunni Jihadist threat has had a hand in tragedies inside the United States beyond the Kahane murder, '93 WTC bombing, and 9/11. Three events in particular

Oklahoma City Bombing-the circumstantial evidence linking McVeigh and Nichols to Al Qaeda's terrorist cells in New York City and Manila is astounding.

TWA flight 800-Occurs right when Ramzi Yousef is on trial for plotting to blow up a dozen 747s, when he has been telling an FBI informant for months how to sneak a small bomb onboard a 747 (using the very explosive chemicals found in the wreckage) and that he wants to blow up a plane to cause a mistrial. AND he develops a way to make radio and phone communications outside the prison to his network.

the Anthrax Mailings-letter weapons are, in fact, the MO of Islamic terrorists, the Anthrax used in the letters can be traced back to a Lebanese-owned lab Porton Downs with many links to Rich Saudis. Circumstantial links between the hijackers and one of the victims. Several of the letters sent in an Arab community not far from where one of the hijacked planes took off.

I have no definite opinion on any of these, it is still entirely possible that OKC was JUST the work of right-wing terrorists with the help of White Supremacists, that TWA 800 was a horrible horrible tragedy, and that the Anthrax Mailings were the work of a lone wolf domestic bioterrorist capitalizing on the 9/11 tragedy.



But to FIRMLY believe that 9/11 was knowingly allowed to happen or, even more preposterous, FABRICATED, with the inclusion of people on every level of our federal government WITHOUT the hundreds of people working for the FBI, CIA, National Security Council, Pentagon, and a dozen other agencies who actually do love and defend their country EVER KNOWING ABOUT THE CONSPIRACY, that, my friends, is enough to make Oliver Stone and Lyndon Larouche say 'get a life.'

Originally posted by Bauer 51
I'll debate all you want about whether or not some of our so-called allies such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Qatar had a hand in that tragedy

And what say you of the link/info I provided regarding the Mossad's role in fomenting terror?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

......you'd be amazed at how often the secondary media is wrong and *huge shocker* biased

First, let's clarify: your position is that the mainstream media is accurate and substantial in truth and substance?






[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
First, let's clarify: your position is that the mainstream media is accurate and substantial in truth and substance?

No.

But what makes you think that secondary media is more accurate and less biased? Especially since most of them have their own agendas.


Look at the links you provided:
Rense - lol. If you believe that Rense is "Gospel truth", as one unnamed poster mentioned, then....I don't know what to say.....hopefully you'll realize your mistake quickly.

Antiwar.com - "This site is devoted to the cause of non-interventionism and is read by libertarians, pacifists, leftists, "greens," and independents alike, as well as many on the Right who agree with our opposition to imperialism."

Well well well, doesn't that just about include everyone.
Hmmm.....how do you think their articles will be slanted?


They may support your viewpoint, but that doesn't make them more accurate than mainstream just because they have the same views as you.


No I don't have on a cheerleader's outfit shouting RA RA GO MAINSTREAM!
Never that.
But fortunately I haven't fallen into thinking that non mainstream is better or that all mainstream is bad.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
But what makes you think that secondary media is more accurate and less biased? Especially since most of them have their own agendas.

Perhaps it is because of my position out here in the real world, within the mainstream media.

Contrary to what many think, today's mainstream media is not liberally biased. That notion is pure fallacy. It is controlled by White House-friendly corporate interests.

Only fear of truth and shattered illusions keeps one from reading opinion and analysis from across the spectrum. And well, ignorance - the ignorance of those with minimal attention spans and inability to consume ideas, words and paragraphs beyond the realm of sixth grade.

For more than an ounce of political depth, for thinking out of the box, it is those very secondary outlets you decry, that will provide you with a more true picture of what is actually going on in the real world. If you are over said sixth grade level, you should be able to figure out good analysis from bad. The more you read on any given subject, the more familiar the authors become. When you begin to learn the authors, as well as the subject, you can figure out easily enuff who's worth your time and who's not.

Look at the links you provided:
Rense - lol. If you believe that Rense is "Gospel truth", as one unnamed

poster mentioned, then....I don't know what to say.....hopefully you'll realize your mistake quickly.

So, you're saying you're incapable of distinguishing between CRAP and substance? It would seem so. Can't help you there. It's like Bout Time pointed out, for anyone intelligent enough to simply note any given article's source (from Rense or anywhere else), most articles you find on Rense are re-posted from other sources. So your theory falls apart.

As for Antiwar.com, the analysis found there is some of the best out there. Don't believe it? The prevailing views on the invasion of Iraq and since have been dead on.












[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Contrary to what many think, today's mainstream media is not liberally biased. That notion is pure fallacy. It is controlled by White House-friendly corporate interests.

I never said it was liberally biased. However, if it is in fact controlled by "White House friendly corporate interests", was there a liberal bias when Clinton was in the White House?
Or do only conservatives control the media?

Only fear of truth and shattered illusions keeps one from reading opinion and analysis from across the spectrum. And well, ignorance - the ignorance of those with minimal attention spans and inability to consume ideas, words and paragraphs beyond the realm of sixth grade.

Not disagreeing.
People should read from opinions and analysis from across the spectrum, however I would hope one is not ignorant and believes everything they read.

Fear of who's truth?

For more than an ounce of political depth, for thinking out of the box, it is those very secondary outlets you decry

I have no problem with 'other'
I am simply pointing out the fact that secondary media is about as accurate as mainstream with equal bias.

that will provide you with a more true picture of what is actually going on in the real world.

Not always.


Who's true picture?

If you are over said sixth grade level, you should be able to figure out good analysis from bad.

Exactly.

And not all mainstream analysis is bad, just as not all secondary is good. What? You haven't figured that out yet?

The more you read on any given subject, the more familiar the authors become. When you begin to learn the authors, as well as the subject, you can figure out easily enuff who's worth your time and who's not.

And usually the authors who are worth your (

Originally posted by Bauer 51
East Coast.....I was replying to two other posters, not yourself.

1.) motion knight's allegation that the 9/11 hijackers either didn't exist or weren't Islamic terrorists.

2.) Shai's allegation that the planes everyone saw hit the towers didn't really hit the towers and that they are in fact all still flying.



I'll debate all you want about whether or not some of our so-called allies such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Qatar had a hand in that tragedy. I don't deny that the CIA and Pentagon's black ops dating back to the 1960s played a role in formenting the global disease that is Wahhabism.

I am personally of the line of thinking that the Global Sunni Jihadist threat has had a hand in tragedies inside the United States beyond the Kahane murder, '93 WTC bombing, and 9/11. Three events in particular

Oklahoma City Bombing-the circumstantial evidence linking McVeigh and Nichols to Al Qaeda's terrorist cells in New York City and Manila is astounding.

TWA flight 800-Occurs right when Ramzi Yousef is on trial for plotting to blow up a dozen 747s, when he has been telling an FBI informant for months how to sneak a small bomb onboard a 747 (using the very explosive chemicals found in the wreckage) and that he wants to blow up a plane to cause a mistrial. AND he develops a way to make radio and phone communications outside the prison to his network.

the Anthrax Mailings-letter weapons are, in fact, the MO of Islamic terrorists, the Anthrax used in the letters can be traced back to a Lebanese-owned lab Porton Downs with many links to Rich Saudis. Circumstantial links between the hijackers and one of the victims. Several of the letters sent in an Arab community not far from where one of the hijacked planes took off.

I have no definite opinion on any of these, it is still entirely possible that OKC was JUST the work of right-wing terrorists with the help of White Supremacists, that TWA 800 was a horrible horrible tragedy, and that the Anthrax Mailings were the work of a lone wolf domestic bioterrorist capitalizing on the 9/11 tragedy.



But to FIRMLY believe that 9/11 was knowingly allowed to happen or, even more preposterous, FABRICATED, with the inclusion of people on every level of our federal government WITHOUT the hundreds of people working for the FBI, CIA, National Security Council, Pentagon, and a dozen other agencies who actually do love and defend their country EVER KNOWING ABOUT THE CONSPIRACY, that, my friends, is enough to make Oliver Stone and Lyndon Larouche say 'get a life.'

You don't read much, do you? I'll just post these two links which go to the heart of why i read your 'rebuttal'with both sadness and incredulity..it seems I have underestimated how far the shadow has fallen over what used to be my country when good men like you believe the lies you are told without question...
www.ph.ucla.edu...
www.wsws.org...

That should take care of your anthrax allegations... And did you or di you not read the Power of Nightmares transcripts or listen to 9-11 radio?
I posted the links so that folks like you could go there and test your 'faith'..do a reality check..use your OWN powers of reasoning, instead of George Bush's...or the editors at Fox news.

Now then...top squeezing your cousin and pay attention..ok? This is important:
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

If [aand only when] you have read the material come on back and we'll chat.

-Sincerely
-Shai

What about the one of many wargames taking place on 9/11 called Operation Vigilant Warrior that was a LIVE-FLY (using real civilian airliners!) exercise involving a US Continental hijack situation run by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and overseen by Dick Cheney?

These and several other wargame excercises involved putting false blips onto FAA radar screens, hence the confusion and inability for good people to respond.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I just doubt you can prove secondary is better.

As far as Rense is concerned, at least half of the articles/analysis posted are by far more intelligent, comprehensive and truthful than anything you will find in any newspaper in the USA.

I will give you an excellent example of how secondary media (internet sites) have blown the mainstream media out of the water. In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, mainstream outlets were nothing but cheerleaders for the effort, buying into and printing every bogus claim (Judith Miller, NY TIMES ) that came out of Rumsfeld's Office of Special Plans and White House. On the other hand, on sites like RENSE, Whatreallyhappened.com, Mike Ruppert's FROM THE WILDERNESS.COM and others' analysis of the situation and prognostications wound up being DEAD ON the MONEY. The mainstream media is at least 2-3 weeks BEHIND internet sites in coverage and analysis. It was the internet that drove the Nick Berg story, for example. It was the internet who told the TRUTH about Jessica Lynch's crash and capture. Had it not been for the net, we would all be buying into that BS about her fighting to the last bullet. Nice try Rumsfeld. The internet now drives the debate. There are no two ways about it. If the print media biggies refuse to get that through their brains, they're never gonna be able to recapture the readers they're losing in droves. And they will deserve their scorn and demise.

I guess I'd better hurry and get that book of mine done..









[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by uknumpty
What about the one of many wargames taking place on 9/11?

This is an excellent question. The exercises taking place on 9-11 served to confuse the rank and file and conceal the actual operation. It's very simple.

PaleoConservative Republican sage Pat Buchanan on Bush and his endless war. He's been right straight down the line.. and what do you know.. writing for ANTIWAR.COM.

Inaugurating Endless War

by Patrick J. Buchanan
Where Woodrow Wilson was going to make the world safe for democracy, George W. Bush is going him one better. President Bush is going to make the whole world democratic. As he declared in his inaugural address, our "great objective" is "ending tyranny" on earth.

And how does the president propose to achieve it?

"So, it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

The president is here asserting a unilateral American right to interfere in the internal affairs of every nation on earth, without regard to whether these nations have threatened us or attacked us. Their domestic politics are now our concern, because if they are not democratic, we are not secure.

Let it be said: This is a formula for endless collisions between this nation and every autocratic regime on earth and must inevitably lead to endless wars. And wars are the death of republics.
www.antiwar.com...

To the assorted individuals still claiming that al queda was responsible for 9-11 and that the US Government is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing bnut the truth..
Three links I hope you visit, provided you are serious about being objective and do seriously intend to consider the FACTS and not the opinions of either pro or anti Bush & Co...and which I defy you to debunk.

www.flight93crash.com...
proliberty.com...
www.philly.com...

Don't expect some jeff rense diatribe, this is cold hard reporting with questions no one in government wants to answer. Why don't you ask them 'why not'..?

I would love too post the official FAA reports and place them side by side with the known facts and the official story and see what you make of it.

But as I said before..if you haven't listened to 9-11 radio or read the PNAC, then chances are you really don't love your country as much as you think you do...or you'd be up and screaming to take your gov't back.

-Sincerely
-Shai

Far too many people truly do not wish to know the truth. It is far too frightening a reality for them.

Here's two more articles.. one from the Moscow Times and the other was written by Scott Ritter, former Marine, Gulf War vet and weapons inspector, 1991-1998. After reading these articles my spirit has plunged. It's not the only thing that has caused this.. its the whole damn thing. All this business as usual crap in Washington while Iraq burns and our nation's greatness goes straight down the toilet. The Bush administration is taking us straight down the path to Armageddon. It's all so unnecessary.

The Salvador Option
By Scott Ritter
Aljazeerah

Thursday 20 January 2005

By any standard, the ongoing American occupation of Iraq is a disaster.

The highly vaunted US military machine, laurelled and praised for its historic march on Baghdad in March and April of 2003, today finds itself a broken force, on the defensive in a land that it may occupy in part, but does not control.

The all-out offensive to break the back of the resistance in Falluja has failed, leaving a city destroyed by American firepower, and still very much in the grips of the anti-American fighters.

The same is true of Mosul, Samarra, or any other location where the US military has undertaken "decisive" action against the fighters, only to find that, within days, the fighting has returned, stronger than ever.

And yet, it now appears as if the United States, in an effort to take the offensive against the fighters in Iraq, is prepared to compound its past mistakes in Iraq by embarking on a new course of action derived from some of the darkest, and most embarrassing moments of America's modern history.

American Terror
By Chris Floyd
Moscow Times
1-22-5

More than two years ago, we wrote here of a secret Pentagon plan to foment terrorism by sending covert agents to infiltrate terrorist groups and goad them into action -- in other words, committing acts of murder and destruction. The purpose was two-fold: first, to bring the terrorist groups into the open, where they could be counterattacked; and second, to justify U.S. military attacks on the countries where the terrorists were operating -- attacks which, in the Pentagon's words, would put those nations' "sovereignty at risk." It was a plan that countenanced -- indeed, encouraged -- the deliberate murder of innocent people and the imposition of U.S. military rule anywhere in the world that U.S. leaders desired.

This plan is now being activated.

In fact, it's being expanded, as The New Yorker's Seymour Hersh revealed last week. Not only will U.S.-directed agents infiltrate existing terrorist groups and provoke them into action, but the Pentagon itself will create its own terrorist groups and "death squads." After establishing their terrorist "credentials" through various atrocities and crimes, these American-run groups will then be able to ally with -- and ultimately undermine -- existing terrorist groups.
www.rense.com...

Sadly, we have become what we once claimed to detest.