The Amish Are Not What They Seem: A Business of Brutal Cruelty

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

You know, I believe that this happens. This happens with people that aren't Amish though too. I have a court-ordered surrender "rescue" in my pasture right now from a (not Amish) situation. She hit the ground on my place an absolute horror physically and shattered mentally. That crazy woman that had her is in prison now. Most people that have horses aren't like that though, and I don't know if the ratio of awful abusers vs. responsible owners is going to be that much different.

Maybe in other parts of the country they can get away with it on a regular basis, but out here, people will KNOW. People here buy Amish trained horses, and they will know if they are actually dealing with an animal that has been abused, and they just don't put up with it. They will have a pretty good chance of just spotting a horse that is starving or abused out and about as well. Not to mention, in small communities (where most of the Amish here are), word of mouth is a big deal, and an especially big deal when it comes to Horse People. The Amish here rely on reputation to sell their goods, from produce to animals, and these aren't particularly tolerant communities when it comes to outsiders (which the Amish largely are considered to be); so if they mess up on this, they lose business, a lot of business. It may be a niche dynamic socially, but we just don't see that kind of nastiness from them (with horses at least).

They are certainly better set up to hide that sort of thing though, I will admit that. I do have a hard time believing that they can get away with that level of abuse on a regular basis or even further, on a systematic/cultural basis, even in other parts of the country, and still be tolerated by the broader community. I mean, a ribby, stumbling, bleeding horse out in the public sphere would surely attract all the wrong kind of attention wouldn't it?

Not to mention, if you want a good days work out of a horse, you just don't starve, neglect or beat them; they can't work well, and with some horses, just... won't work. From a practical perspective, horses are expensive in terms of time and resources and the Amish rely on them a lot, to do actual work that their livelihoods depend upon. Most neglect/abuse that we see here comes from people that are breeders and/or just sort of collecting horses, never from people that actually use their horses to help them make a living. Ever. Abusers are often the equine equivalent of puppy-mills or hoarders I guess. I just don't know how wide spread it is compared to the rest of the horse owning population. It seems to me like it would be less prevalent for practical reasons not more. It is just completely counter to my experience in so many ways.

At first read, I have to admit SO, I was a bit annoyed that you went into all of the research and such to present this community a thread about Amish and puppies....

After all, as you said, there is so much crappie happening in the world to make this seem insignificant.

After reading again, and doinget a bit of my own searches... I'm glad you have taken the energy to compose this information for this community.

I'm a dog owner of two, a Pyrenees and German Shepard, have also owned 4 other dogs. The hidden abuse such creature take "behind the curtain" is horrendous.

Thanks for sharing and exposing SO

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Right, however if either one of those animals or their parents originated from a puppy store, then it came from the mass production industry. Would it not be better to eliminate the root cause of the reason so many animals are produced under cruelty, and then treated as disposable??

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I have of course being English never met an Amish person, however I always thought that they were a Christian sect, if this is the case they need to mend there ways as the bible is actually against animal cruelty.
www.openbible.info...

I did horse rescue for four years in the early 2000's. I know what I've seen - starvation and whips and boards.

The non-Amish rescues were generally worse for wear - one really bad case of sand colic, blindness, etc.

As an animal lover for all 35 years I have been alive on this earth I find this disgusting. Dogs have always been a part of my life ever since I was a child. They've always been loved and part of the family. I can't imagine how much of a piece of $*** you have to be to abuse anyone or anything. But sadly this is all but one piece. How about all the dogs that get abused and or killed in dog fighting? It makes my blood boil just thinking about it.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
Right, however if either one of those animals or their parents originated from a puppy store, then it came from the mass production industry. Would it not be better to eliminate the root cause of the reason so many animals are produced under cruelty, and then treated as disposable??

It is possible but I find it doubtful based on my conversations with the people transporting the animals to the northeast for fostering and adoption. They attribute it to more of a failure to spay and neuter than a puppy mill situation.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Good point, and brings up another issue. The failure to spay and neuter. What is the minimum age to have an animal altered, and is it feasible to make it a requirement from the breeder, unless supplying a new licensed breeder?

This is absolutely disgusting. People who cage animals for profit should do hard time in a cage themselves. ~$heopleNation

lol I use to live in central Indiana and yeah the communities around there would for sure # you over given the chance. My cousin paid them to frame his house,they got about half way done and then demanded more money because it got cold,he said no so they took apart what they had done and never came back lol a reply to: Bluntone22

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

When we consider the Amish, we often have the image of a quaint and simple people, living a quiet devoutly religious life without the intrusion of modern influences. Often romanticized in movies and TV shows, we’re presented with the visage of gentle people dedicated to an uncomplicated “country” lifestyle.

The Amish are no different from any other group of people. They come with the good, the bad, and the in between.

I lived in an area with a large Amish population, and some of the Amish were mean, ornery, bigoted, and segregated, while others were the nicest, sweetest, friendliest, most community oriented, people you would ever have the pleasure of meeting.

We also had a fairly moderate sized Mennonite community, which often erroneously, got painted with the same brush as the Amish. I have Mennonite neighbors now. They call me, and treat me, as family. I couldn't ask for more, loving or kinder neighbors.

There is nothing special about the Amish. They have the same capacity for hateful and evil behaviors as the rest of us. They can be just as loving and communal as the rest of us, and will reflect the tone, and the mood of the area and the times in which they live.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I have of course being English never met an Amish person, however I always thought that they were a Christian sect, if this is the case they need to mend there ways as the bible is actually against animal cruelty.
www.openbible.info...

Amish have different ideas about it. Each group is led by a bishop who sets the tone for that group. Many operate off a works based model of salvation more than a faith based one. They also have a list of rules that make them similar to Orthodox Jews in some ways. If you break the rules, you can be shunned by the community.

In general, this would also explain why there is such a range of experiences with the different groups that members have run across.

It seems some of these Amish are operating off their own version of the prosperity gospel. And the dogs are coming off worse for it.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Wouldn't licensing help the situation instead. Licensing to be a breeder for pet stores means they are subject to government regulations doesn't it?? Not to mention subject to taxes since all thus was going on under the table before

a reply to: SkepticOverlord
Thanks for bringing this to light. I had no idea any of this was going on. Thanks also for not including pics of the puppy mills. I may be callous about some things but I can't bring myself to look at dogs being abused, or any animal really. There has to be something fundamentally wrong with people for them to abuse an animal like that.

a reply to: redhorse

These are closed communities, so it is difficult to tell what goes on. Having said that, the Amish here don't sell dogs. I've found their horses to be well fed, well trained, confident, consistent, sensible and still able to think their way through new and scary situations, which generally isn't what you get from an abused horse.

I agree to a degree.

Country folks are sort of big on staying out of other people's business to a point. Country folks are also pretty big on gossip, and where I am from, if the gossip is bad enough, someone is going to check it out. Abuse of children or animals is not something that is glossed over, or tolerate well by country folks.

The Amish are a closed community but only as far as their worship and the rules of their culture. They still have to interact with the community at large, and they have to do business with the non-Amish people of their community.

The Amish have the practice of shunning those members that don't conform with their Amish rules and ways of life. Non-Amish people also have a practice of shunning those the Amish if they are considered to be undesirable members the community, or are involved in activities or behavior that is considered undesirable.

If you really want to demosnstate how much of a hypocrite the Amish can be as them About Shunning. Didnt it say in the Bible to Forgive? Obviously they Dont if they practice it.

Also...They are not HEBREWS so following the OT is not correct. thats part 2 of their hypocracy.

originally posted by: yuppa
If you really want to demosnstate how much of a hypocrite the Amish can be as them About Shunning. Didnt it say in the Bible to Forgive? Obviously they Dont if they practice it.

Also...They are not HEBREWS so following the OT is not correct. thats part 2 of their hypocracy.

I don't believe that I have to say what is surely obvious here.

Replace what you just said about the Amish and replace the word Amish with any other group of choice and you will get my point.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

While in the broad scheme of all the world’s problems, these barbaric puppy mills might seem like a small annoyance amongst an overwhelming cacophony of societal problems. But is it really? Is this actually an example of how callous we’ve become; that we would allow these domesticated creatures that can give us so much, to be breed by the hundreds of thousands in such deplorable conditions?

I think an even more fundamental problem might the often overlooked attitude that the value in the lives of these creatures is derived primarily from how much they can "give us" rather than from their inherent value as sentient beings.

Otherwise excellent post.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
This hidden aspect of Amish immorality has been brought to light recently in Minnesota, where illegally operated puppy mills have been granted new licenses for expanding their operations. That’s right, despite dozens of reports of extremely brutal cruelty toward the dogs, and extensive citations from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, Amish puppy mills are expanding in Minnesota. A state where 80,000 to 90,000 unwanted dogs are euthanized each year.

The fault there lies with the authorities. If people from any culture, religion, background, race etc are allowed to get away with breaking the law they invariably push the law further next time

One of the Minnesota puppy mill operators, an Amish man with an extensive record of USDA violations

Whoa there !!! already committed violations....JESUS H COME ON somebody in authority needs their rear end reamed.

Minnesota is just the tip of an iceberg of brutality. Often illegally operated Amish puppy mills have been a problem across the Midwest and Northeast for decades.

Well there we go I predicted that two quotes back!!! sheesh.

It would be bigoted/racist to claim that the Amish were less likely than anyone else to behave in such a manner. However, like any group of a-holes, if you let them get away with it the problem gets worse.

Reap what you sow is the expression.......

As you said SO it is more the newer Amish who are interested in making money at the expense of animals. I live in Western New York, near what has become a rather large Amish community.

I have some friends not far from me who have a small farm. There was a puppy mill set up two farms down their road. When the neighbors complained about the animal abuse, the Amish people who owned that property built a high fence to hide what they were doing. The neighbors continued to complain as the dogs were constantly whining and barking at all hours. Finally the spca got involved and they got shut down.

The thing is that the animal abuse is just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on and on about these sleazy people and all the things they are doing, but I don't wish to go off topic. I have a lot of firsthand tales of what these people are up to and the tales aren't pretty.