Missouri Bill Would Require Lobbyists To Disclose Sex With Lawmakers

a reply to: Flatfish

business people have a right to petition the government to express their needs and wants just as much as joe and suzy blow do.

but that being said, it should be on equal grounds as joe and suzy. just because you have a lot of cash doesn't mean your better than them and that your sh@@ don't stink.

Ole "Bart's" a f$cking genius isn't he?

Why not just ban lobbying? It would not create more government regulation and it would adhere to the Founder's original summation that corporations and banks should not be able to affect the people's government.

Otherwise, who cares what people do in the privacy of their home, office, back alley or vehicle?

a reply to: introvert

Why not just ban lobbying?

1st amendment, mostly.

Curious about your Founders' claim though.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: introvert

Why not just ban lobbying?

1st amendment, mostly.

Curious about your Founders' claim though.

1st amendment rights only apply to individuals. Original corporate charter systems did not allow corporate lobby.

Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.
Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.
Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.
Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.
Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.

reclaimdemocracy.org...

a reply to: Phage

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

Thomas Jefferson

a reply to: introvert

Those would seem to be various states conditions. I asked about the Founders.

a reply to: introvert
I've always been a fan of Jefferson, warts and all. But that quote doesn't seem to be about people petitioning the government on behalf of corporations, or any other groups.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: introvert
I've always been a fan of Jefferson, warts and all. But that quote doesn't seem to be about people petitioning the government on behalf of corporations, or any other groups.

True, but I do believe it does apply to my statement of "the Founder's original summation that corporations and banks should not be able to affect the people's government".

If you would like to me to find a quote relating to lobbying specifically, I will have to do some research and may even come-up empty handed.

Would you agree that the Founders warned us about the perils of letting corporations and banks become too powerful? Wouldn't lobbying a government created for and by the people be just one of those perils?

a reply to: introvert

True, but I do believe it does apply to my statement of "the Founder's original summation that corporations and banks should not be able to affect the people's government".

Maybe. Or not.

This exact quotation has not been found in the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It may be a mistaken amalgamation of the author's comments in the above 1994 reference with a real Jefferson quotation.

www.monticello.org...


Seems the actual quote was about rich kids not giving a damn about the country.

a reply to: Phage

Good find. I am mistaken and concede. Perhaps corporations and their ability to lobby the people's government could be considered one issue the Founder's did not foresee the need to include in the Constitution.

a reply to: introvert

Indeed. One of many.
That's why they created the Court. Warts and all.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: introvert

Indeed. One of many.
That's why they created the Court. Warts and all.

Good point.

Pleasure conversing with you.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Flatfish

business people have a right to petition the government to express their needs and wants just as much as joe and suzy blow do.

but that being said, it should be on equal grounds as joe and suzy. just because you have a lot of cash doesn't mean your better than them and that your sh@@ don't stink.

Then those business owners should personally go meet with their representatives to address their concerns just like any other individual American who has grievances.

Individual "PEOPLE" have the right to redress their grievances with their government as is laid out in the Constitution.

Maybe you could show me anywhere in our Constitution where the words "Corporation," "Shareholder," "Lobbyist " or "Special Interest Groups" appear and are guaranteed any rights under the document?

It's a "Of, By & For The People" document and regardless of our current SCOTUS ruling on the issue, Corporations are NOT people by any stretch of the imagination.

Once Bernie gets elected, I'm confident we'll settle this issue once and for all.

a reply to: Flatfish

hey don't miss understand me, i hate lobbyist especially those that lobby for big business and such.

but there are other special interest groups that lobby congress and regulatory agencies, such as lgbt rights groups, women's rights groups, black rights groups, The NRA, the list of special interest groups is long, almost as long as corporations. if you stop business people from hiring people to lobbying congress and regulatory agencies, you would have to stop those groups from hiring people to lobbying congress and regulatory agencies also.

as far as i know there is no language or amendments in the Constitution, for and about lobbying. but there there have been court rulings calling the practice free speech and protected by the 1st amendment of the Constitution.

and your just dreaming if you think sanders is going to be nominated, let alone win. even in the long shot he did, he can't make the country a socialist utopia with his pen and phone.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Flatfish

hey don't miss understand me, i hate lobbyist especially those that lobby for big business and such.

but there are other special interest groups that lobby congress and regulatory agencies, such as lgbt rights groups, women's rights groups, black rights groups, The NRA, the list of special interest groups is long, almost as long as corporations. if you stop business people from hiring people to lobbying congress and regulatory agencies, you would have to stop those groups from hiring people to lobbying congress and regulatory agencies also.

as far as i know there is no language or amendments in the Constitution, for and about lobbying. but there there have been court rulings calling the practice free speech and protected by the 1st amendment of the Constitution.

and your just dreaming if you think sanders is going to be nominated, let alone win. even in the long shot he did, he can't make the country a socialist utopia with his pen and phone.

If paid lobbying is completely outlawed, the individual voices of all those people who make up those special interest groups you mentioned, gets stronger.

Their sheer numbers will now give them the edge over the much smaller group of corporate elite who currently use their wealth to drown out our voice in congress while dictating policy to our representatives.

When I was young, the union I worked for didn't have lobbyists or PACS either. It wasn't until we realized that we no longer had a voice without them that we started playing that game. I have a feeling that most of those other special interest groups are in the same boat.

Organizations of like minded people shouldn't need lobbyist because they have "people."

Business owners should have the same right and access to congress as their workers do, but they should not have the right to utilize wealth to drown out their worker's voice.

Eliminate paid lobbying and we'll get our government listening to it's "people" again, the way our founding fathers intended it to be.