What are the differences in theology between Islam and The Nation of Islam?

What are the differences in theology between Islam and The Nation of Islam?
There is another thread, that discussed the recent shooting of a Policemen, in Philadelphia, and one of our Muslim posters made a comment, that the shooter was likely not a practitioner of Islam proper but rather someone who was involved with the Nation of Islam.
So I thought I would ask what the difference is in everyone's opinion.
Personally I have no doubt that Islam Proper and the Nation of Islam are very separate in their ideals and thoughts on what their faith holds to be true, and what their hermetical process is in reaching those conclusions.
I feel this way because you see the same thing in every branch of thought, and philosophy from Christianity, to Islam to Atheism, to Buddhism.
For example:
Westboro Baptist does not hold the same worldview nor is its understanding of Scripture the same as say a Calvary Chapel in Ohio, or Catholic Church in New York.
However I thought I would ask the experts.

originally posted by: Punisher75
What are the differences in theology between Islam and The Nation of Islam?
There is another thread, that discussed the recent shooting of a Policemen, in Philadelphia, and one of our Muslim posters made a comment, that the shooter was likely not a practitioner of Islam proper but rather someone who was involved with the Nation of Islam.
So I thought I would ask what the difference is in everyone's opinion.
Personally I have no doubt that Islam Proper and the Nation of Islam are very separate in their ideals and thoughts on what their faith holds to be true, and what their hermetical process is in reaching those conclusions.
I feel this way because you see the same thing in every branch of thought, and philosophy from Christianity, to Islam to Atheism, to Buddhism.
For example:
Westboro Baptist does not hold the same worldview nor is its understanding of Scripture the same as say a Calvary Chapel in Ohio, or Catholic Church in New York.
However I thought I would ask the experts.

Based on my understanding, NOI follows the teaching of Elijah. Where Islam follows Mohammed. NOI is not a religion as it is more a racist group which essentially state that white people are the devil and black people are a supreme/ superior race.

Islam the religion is about 1300-1400 yrs old. Where NOI was founded in 1930. More info can be found with a simple search on Google.

The Nation of Islam is a racist UFO cult/scam, it's followers believe that black scientists created white people from breeding and genetics programs thousands of years ago.

Now those scientists live in UFOs ( cult leader Louis Farrakhan even claims to have been aboard one ) awaiting the day they will fly down and destroy the white man in their spacecraft.


Islam is a racist God/death cult/scam, it's followers believe that the Jews got their own religion wrong and an insane man who heard voices in his head ( cult founder Mohammed even admitted to being tricked by some of the voices in his head which were demonic ) was given the true rules of the Jewish God and a manifesto for world domination through subversion of women, violence against non- Muslims ( and other Muslims who have different views about Islam), and lying about the true nature of the religion to non-Muslims, also referred to as infidels.

Leaders of both "Islams" rely on the ignorance, hate, and violent nature of their adherents as well as the passivity and good nature of their perceived enemies to allow them their farcical goal of domination and their real goal of amassing wealth and power.

In both "Islams" the people at the top live in wealth and splendor while for the most part those at the bottom live in abject poverty and despair.

The Nation of Islam was founded around 1930 by a man named Fard, and would become run by Elijah Muhammad. You can look up them & the group to learn more about that part. Though remember, the conservative estimates are at least 10-15% of African American slaves were Muslims. The NOI didn't start Islam in African American communities any more than Mormons brought Christianity to European American communities.

As for their teachings, the Nation of Islam mixed the African American struggle for civil rights with Islamic teachings. They also taught that white people were devils incarnate. If you look at the time period, you can probably see why that part of their message caught on with many members. Eugenics was rampant throughout Western countries and their colonies, 1/4 of southern white American males were members of the KKK at the time, and there were numerous genocides against colored people globally (look at the Congo, Namibia, and Haiti). Malcolm X's own dad was killed by Klan members (as were 2 of my great, great uncles). This is why the NOI was once called "The hate that hate created".

But that's not the part of their message that actually attracted most people. They were one of the few groups that taught black people that we shouldn't be ashamed of our skin color, unique hair, lips, noses, curvy butts, etc. Remember, at this time, minstrel shows were still the norm and the "Coon song" genre were just going out of style (google "coon songs" like "If the man on the moon were a coon" & Agatha Christie's real title for "And Then There Were None"). Many segments of "colored" society believed the propaganda that we were naturally inferior to white people, so they had "paper bag tests" for some organization memberships, would straighten their hair, and change their names to try to assimilate. But the Nation of Islam (among other groups) was against that, saying we should love ourselves as we are because God made us different & God doesn't make mistakes. (As an example, my Christian grandfather fought in WWII in a segregated unit under Patton, literally helping save Europe from Hitler. But after he came back to the States, he was still a 2nd class citizen for nearly the next 20 years.)

The other major thing about the NOI's policies that attracted people is they vigorously pushed for our communities to educate ourselves; to reject drugs, alcohol, gambling, stealing, and lying; to protect our communities; and to be self sufficient. And as Malcolm said, "The only time we get violent is when you molest our women... We will kill you for our women". They preached a massive emphasis on self sufficiency in colored communities because they believed a dependence on white people would mean we weren't actually "free". Once again, remember the time period. Racial segregation was the law of the land. Our communities were grossly underfunded, under represented (we couldn't even vote, run for office, or testify in court against a white person), and were heavily policed. Even the "great progressive" FDR's New Deal excluded people of color from most of its programs.

After Elijah Muhammad died in the 1970s, his son took over the organization and converted it into a mainstream Sunni organization, the "World Community of Islam in the West". Farrakhan didn't like the changes, so he branched off and formed today's "Nation of Islam". His branch still works with many poor African American communities, Christian & Muslims alike. And though most African Americans reject most of his opinions (he's usually batcrap crazy), we still can work with NOI members in the community. Because unlike most politicians and businessmen, they actually show up to help against gang violence, they send and receive guest speakers w/Christians, etc.

Today, the NOI has an estimated 20,000 to 50,000 members, which is puny when you consider there are roughly 2 million African American Muslims right now. The Muslims in my family have never been NOI members, though I've been on good terms with some of their members.

So to be blunt, the original NOI taught that the oppressed African Americans should strengthen & better ourselves instead of asking for help from others. But they also hated white people. Islam has no ethnicity or skin color, so they got the racial part completely wrong. I agree with their work to reduce drug use, alcoholism, gambling, and our dependence on political "saviors" who only show up when they need votes. But I strongly disagree with their racial teachings. And Farrakhan says some crazy crap, like Trump level rhetoric mixed with alien ships & who knows what else. Can't reason with someone like that.

I am more or less looking for theological differences rather than social differences.

Using examples from my own faith;
We have Calvinist (who believe that God predestined peoples salvation) and Armenians (God gave mankind freewill to either choose him or not) and of course a few folks in the middle of the two.

Pentecostals largely believe that things such healing through prayer, speaking in tongues, etc are expected to be the norm in the Christian life, where as most Baptist, do not believe such things should be considered normal by any means.

So what I mean is how do they interpret their scripture.
The Alien thing is new to me, I had no idea.
I am assuming there are more than just race issues that separate the two and their understanding of God and mankinds relationship to him and others.

Combine all of the replies in this thread together and you get a good idea about the differences of the two.

• Islam:
Founded by Muhammad ibn Abdullah (Arab) in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, approximately 610 CE. Based upon Muhammad's Qur'an and life-example, taught to be a continuation of God's revelation from Judaism and Christianity.

• Nation of Islam:
Founded by W.D. Fard Muhammad and Elijah Muhammad (African Americans) in Detroit, Michigan, USA in 1930. Based upon the Bible, Muhammad ibn Abdullah's Qur'an, and the Black nationalist, separatist, and superiority teachings of W.D. Fard Muhammad and Elijah Muhammad.


Traditional, Orthodox, Sunni, and Shia Muslims consider "Nation of Islam" followers as being completely outside the bounds of Islam. Islam teaches that Muhammad ibn Abdullah is the last prophet, but the later N.O.I. followers claim that W.D. Fard Muhammad is God in the flesh and Elijah Muhammad is his last prophet and messenger.


Islam is more of a "Universal Religion", while the N.O.I. is a pseudo-religious racist ideology.

a reply to: Sahabi
So in effect what you mean by this...

Traditional, Orthodox, Sunni, and Shia Muslims consider "Nation of Islam" followers as being completely outside the bounds of Islam.

Is not dissimilar to how more orthodox Christianity, considers things like Mormonism, and The Watchtower outside of the bounds of Christianity?

originally posted by: Punisher75
I am more or less looking for theological differences rather than social differences.

Using examples from my own faith;
We have Calvinist (who believe that God predestined peoples salvation) and Armenians (God gave mankind freewill to either choose him or not) and of course a few folks in the middle of the two.

Pentecostals largely believe that things such healing through prayer, speaking in tongues, etc are expected to be the norm in the Christian life, where as most Baptist, do not believe such things should be considered normal by any means.

So what I mean is how do they interpret their scripture.
The Alien thing is new to me, I had no idea.
I am assuming there are more than just race issues that separate the two and their understanding of God and mankinds relationship to him and others.

But the largest differences by far come from the social aspect that is intertwined with the actual teachings of Islam. Listen to any of Malcolm X's speeches and interviews from when he was the most popular spokesman for the Nation of Islam. Then listen to Muhammad Ali's interviews after he converted. No offense, but you literally can't separate their religious & social aspects. Do you remember the Million Man March in the '90s? That was led by the Nation of Islam, even though the vast majority of people who went weren't even Muslims.

You have to understand something, African Americans were always just "black". It didn't matter if we were Sunni, Shiite, Methodist, or atheist; Zulu, Amharic, or Yoruba. American society only saw us as "black". That's where the NOI's perspective is from. And you also have to remember that a lot of Muslim countries in the Middle East just ended slavery against black people between the 1930s & 1960s (and many replaced it with the virtual slave system "Kafala"). Many of the racist members in their society have even changed the word "kafir/kaffir" to be the equivalent of America's "n-word". So some of their rejection of "Black Muslims" in America comes from that, even though as I showed you, the NOI makes up a pitifully small percentage of African American members. I know this from first hand experience as an African American Muslim. (It's also a reason why many African American Muslims like myself don't care for the denominational feuds of those other denominations; because those feuds have nothing to do with our own situations.)

So they're actually much closer to being a Islam-based, racist/pro-black, black nationalist, civil rights organization than a separate denomination of Islam. That's why I focused on the organization as opposed to its teachings. They don't normally commit violence, as a simple google search of NOI violence stats will show you. But Farrakhan's also crazy and full of AM radio/Trump-level rhetoric, especially against anyone who gives minorities a hard time. Anyone who ignores the social aspect will completely miss what their teachings are about, especially their "be proud to be black" message.

And yes, Farrakhan sometimes says some crazy crap about aliens and motherships. It might be better for you to just go on youtube and look up some of their general videos about their teachings, as well as speeches and interviews from their spokesmen over time. Because people who don't know about their role in the Civil Rights Movement will only tell you the outside views of them.

I don't know much about the NOI, except of course being racist nuisances that no one takes serious.

You'll find them in the bad areas, looking funny and ranting over silly stuff. They can be entertaining if anything.

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: Sahabi
So in effect what you mean by this...

Traditional, Orthodox, Sunni, and Shia Muslims consider "Nation of Islam" followers as being completely outside the bounds of Islam.

Is not dissimilar to how more orthodox Christianity, considers things like Mormonism, and The Watchtower outside of the bounds of Christianity?

Yes, because traditional Islam relies upon the Qur'an and teachings of Muhammad ibn Abdullah,... while the NOI relies primarily upon the Lessons of W.D. Fard Muhammad & Elijah Muhmammad, in addition to the Qur'an and Bible.

In addition to being an ex Sunni (Salafi) Muslim, I have also built (elevate mentality) and ciphered (completion) the 360 degrees of the Supreme Alphabet & Mathematics, and the various Lessons of both the Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths.


God

• Islam: Allah is The One, Eternal, and Absolute. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there in nothing comparable to Him. He dwells in Heaven and established Himself above His throne.

• NOI: W.D. Fard Muhammad is Allah in the flesh. The original man is the Asiatic Black man; the Maker; the Owner; the Cream of the planet Earth - Father of Civilization, God of the Universe. Does not believe in a "Mystery God".



Devil

• Islam: Shaytan (Satan), aka Iblis, a Jin of smokeless fire. Fallen from God's grace through pride, arrogance, and disobedience.

• NOI: The Colored man is the Caucasian (white man). Or, Yacub's grafted Devil - the Skunk of the planet Earth. He was a savage. Savage means a person that has lost the knowledge of himself and who is living a beast life.



Canon

• Islam: Qur'an and Sunnah of Muhammad ibn Abdullah

• NOI: Teachings of W.D. Fard Muhammad & Elijah Muhammad, primarily being: Supreme Wisdom Lessons, Instructions to Laborers, I. Solar Facts, II. Actual Facts, III. Student Enrollment, IV. Lost Found Lessons, V. Lost-Found Lessons No. 2, VI. The Problem Book, VII. English Lesson No. C1, Restrictive Laws of Islam, Other Add On Lessons, Twelve Jewels, Supreme Mathematics, and Supreme Alphabet. Qur'an and Bible.



Last Prophet

• Islam: Muhammad ibn Abdullah

• NOI: Elijah Muhammad

originally posted by: Sahabi

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: Sahabi
So in effect what you mean by this...

Traditional, Orthodox, Sunni, and Shia Muslims consider "Nation of Islam" followers as being completely outside the bounds of Islam.

Is not dissimilar to how more orthodox Christianity, considers things like Mormonism, and The Watchtower outside of the bounds of Christianity?

Yes, because traditional Islam relies upon the Qur'an and teachings of Muhammad ibn Abdullah,... while the NOI relies primarily upon the Lessons of W.D. Fard Muhammad & Elijah Muhmammad, in addition to the Qur'an and Bible.

In addition to being an ex Sunni (Salafi) Muslim, I have also built (elevate mentality) and ciphered (completion) the 360 degrees of the Supreme Alphabet & Mathematics, and the various Lessons of both the Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths.


God

• Islam: Allah is The One, Eternal, and Absolute. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there in nothing comparable to Him. He dwells in Heaven and established Himself above His throne.

• NOI: W.D. Fard Muhammad is Allah in the flesh. The original man is the Asiatic Black man; the Maker; the Owner; the Cream of the planet Earth - Father of Civilization, God of the Universe. Does not believe in a "Mystery God".

 

Devil

• Islam: Shaytan (Satan), aka Iblis, a Jin of smokeless fire. Fallen from God's grace through pride, arrogance, and disobedience.

• NOI: The Colored man is the Caucasian (white man). Or, Yacub's grafted Devil - the Skunk of the planet Earth. He was a savage. Savage means a person that has lost the knowledge of himself and who is living a beast life.

 

Canon

• Islam: Qur'an and Sunnah of Muhammad ibn Abdullah

• NOI: Teachings of W.D. Fard Muhammad & Elijah Muhammad, primarily being: Supreme Wisdom Lessons, Instructions to Laborers, I. Solar Facts, II. Actual Facts, III. Student Enrollment, IV. Lost Found Lessons, V. Lost-Found Lessons No. 2, VI. The Problem Book, VII. English Lesson No. C1, Restrictive Laws of Islam, Other Add On Lessons, Twelve Jewels, Supreme Mathematics, and Supreme Alphabet. Qur'an and Bible.

 

Last Prophet

• Islam: Muhammad ibn Abdullah

• NOI: Elijah Muhammad

Ah okay this is what I was kind of looking for.
Now from my understanding, Islam believes that all man can be "saved" (using the Christian vernacular here cause I don't know Islams understanding of that)

Based on what has been told to me, I assume that NOI does not believe that all men can be "saved" but only black men?
Is that is the case?

For some reason I thought that Traditional Islam did actually use both the old and New Testaments of the Bible, however they applied a totally different hermenutic to the new testament. Apparently I am mistaken in that?

a reply to: Punisher75

Islam and the NOI both use the Bible sparingly. They both believe that the Bible was founded on Truth, but has since been corrupted. The Bible is used as reference. Islam only accepts Biblical teachings if they align to the Qur'an and Sunnah, and the NOI only accepts Biblical teachings if they align to the teachings of W.D. Fard Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad, and the Qur'an.

Islam teaches of Heaven and Hell in the afterlife, based upon belief/disbelief and good/bad deeds. The NOI teaches no afterlife, that Heaven & Hell are conditions in our Earthly life, determined by Knowledge, Wisdom, Understanding, and Civilization.

And there you have, from Sahabi & EnlightenedServant, a full description that I could not have divulged beyond my minuscule Knowledge.

But I'm glad my sporadic posts about the differences in theology between the two brought you to ask questions.
I've also learned from this thread.

Stars & flag for denying ignorance.


How did it turn out with that Philly cop by the way, did that nutbar pledge allegiance to ISIS or the NOI?
Or both?

I read conflicting reports in the original thread. As far as I got up to anyways.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
And there you have, from Sahabi & EnlightenedServant, a full description that I could not have divulged beyond my minuscule Knowledge.

But I'm glad my sporadic posts about the differences in theology between the two brought you to ask questions.
I've also learned from this thread.

Stars & flag for denying ignorance.


How did it turn out with that Philly cop by the way, did that nutbar pledge allegiance to ISIS or the NOI?
Or both?

I read conflicting reports in the original thread. As far as I got up to anyways.

I have no idea to be honest, I stopped following it.
Thanks for contributing to the thread however its nice to have you here.

Feel free to add any thoughts you might have though I am sure you are being humble.

a reply to: Punisher75

Hehe, not even, Punisher.
Thank you though.

You know me by now surely, if I have more to add, or an over inflated opinion, I usually share it.


One thing I guess I can add, that hasn't been touched upon, is Muhammad's (pbuh) "impurity" in the eyes of the NOI, being that he was lighter skinned than the average Adonis that Farrakhan, Fard & Elijah seem to (have) want(ed) to emulate...


Maybe Sahabi or enlightened could help me understand how the NOI come to terms with that.

I'd be very interested in their take on that.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

One thing I guess I can add, that hasn't been touched upon, is Muhammad's (pbuh) "impurity" in the eyes of the NOI, being that he was lighter skinned than the average Adonis that Farrakhan, Fard & Elijah seem to (have) want(ed) to emulate...

That actually would be an interesting question to have answered and makes me wonder if the Black Hebrew Israelite, movement grew out of NOI, or if they have some connection somewhere along the line.
Of course that sounds more like a Conspiracy in Religion Topic I suppose.
What do you guys think?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The Arab, Muhammad ibn Abdullah, is accepted as an Original Man. The NOI teaches that the Original People includes the hues (hue-mans) of black, brown, red, and yellow. It is taught that "Africa" is a word invented by the White Devils to divide the Original People, and that "Africa" is actually a part of [Greater] Asia. According to the "Lost Found Lessons", the best part of Earth is in Arabia, at the Holy City of Mecca, and the root of civilization is in the Arabian Desert. The White Devil was driven into the wilderness of "West Asia" and roped in (Europe: "Eu" (Hillside) + "Rope"; as in, roped, bound, and boundary of the Caucus Mountains; Caucasian: West Caucus Asian).


If we look at photographs of Wallace D. Fard Muhammad, founder of the NOI, we see that he is light-skinned, even rumored as being half-White. Such mixing of races (Original + White) is rationalized as producing "Half-Original" People, being more akin to Original than White. A common NOI metaphor says that an apple seed planted in any soil will always produce an apple tree. That is to say, the "germ" of an Original Person will produce an Original Person, even when conceived with a White Person.

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

One thing I guess I can add, that hasn't been touched upon, is Muhammad's (pbuh) "impurity" in the eyes of the NOI, being that he was lighter skinned than the average Adonis that Farrakhan, Fard & Elijah seem to (have) want(ed) to emulate...

That actually would be an interesting question to have answered and makes me wonder if the Black Hebrew Israelite, movement grew out of NOI, or if they have some connection somewhere along the line.
Of course that sounds more like a Conspiracy in Religion Topic I suppose.
What do you guys think?

Such groups arose in a common atmosphere, as reactions to shared external circumstances, consequently, being bound to one another by karma (cause-and-effect). These groups are interconnected and related.

In my opinion, the dream to unite was over-zealous, allowing the misguided cultivation of separation and hate. Beyond the misguided negativity of these groups, a common thread of Light can be perceived. Sparks and fragments of esoteric (inner) and occult (hidden) knowledge and wisdom was seeded, in my opinion, by the direct and/or indirect influence of Prince Hall Freemasonry on African-Americans and their communities.



• 1784 "Prince Hall Freemasonry"

• 1886 "Church of the Living God, the Pillar Ground of Truth for All Nations" (Black Hebrew Ideology)

• 1893 "Prince Hall Shriners" (A.E.A.O.N.M.S.)

• 1896 "Church of God and Saints of Christ" (Black Hebrew Ideology)

• 1913 "Moorish Science Temple"

• 1914 Marcus Garvey (Universal Negro Improvement Association)

• 1919 "Commandment Keepers" (Black Hebrew Ideology)

• 1930 "Nation of Islam"

• 1964 "Nation of Gods and Earths"

• 1966 "African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem" (Black Hebrew Ideology)

• 1968 "Nubian Islamic Hebrews"



Further reading: "The Craft and the Crescent"

a reply to: Sahabi

Good post. The only part I would dispute is this part:

In my opinion, the dream to unite was over-zealous, allowing the misguided cultivation of separation and hate. Beyond the misguided negativity of these groups, a common thread of Light can be perceived.

Remember, America was racially segregated by law until the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The "Black Codes" that directly followed the Civil War and then the Jim Crow laws that followed literally forced racial segregation throughout the country. And the conservatives even fought against the Civil Rights Movement and racial integration with policies like "The Massive Resistance". In other words, it wasn't the black Americans who caused the separation, it was the white majority who didn't want to be around us.

The difference between the black nationalist movements and the black integrationist movements (my term lol) is that the nationalists were tired of kissing up to a racist majority that still would only see them as 2nd class citizens legally. America likes to focus on the black integrationists because their message was of non-violence and the desire to change the racist majority until it gave us the same rights as other Americans. On the other hand, the black nationalists like Marcus Garvey basically said "You don't accept me? Then screw you too".

Ironically, I believe in a mix of both paths. I can't stand racism or bigotry, regardless of who it's from. But I also hate colonialism & oppression with a passion, and believe every community should be self sufficient. Though a "community" should be about families, friends, shared ideas & shared social goals, not based on skin color (hence my dream for social utopias).

I just want to thank you guys for presenting this information.

I had heard of Malcolm X, Dianetics (and Scientology/Hubbard), and Farrakhan, but new little about them.

By the way, did the Black Panthers have any connection to these people? I was born in 1958, so a lot of this stuff was going on before I was capable of understanding any of it; my parents did not speak to us about civil issues, or Vietnam, or racism -so what I learned was from my cohorts and their siblings, and observation. One of my earliest memories is the day JFK was killed, but I didn't know anything about the issues that led up to it until I was much older -- I was "shielded" from much of what was going on in the larger world. (Including "rock n roll").


So - I am woefully behind the curve in terms of much of what I learn here....
thanks to all of you for a wonderful reading experience this morning.

Flag and Stars all round!