Political Correctness is Going to Destroy US

Here's what I said..

" ...to silence opposition by falsely accusing them of hatred, racism, bigotry, oppression. "

Here's some things you have shared...

" inherent bigotry "

" a precursor to reinforcing some kind of bigotry. "


This is what PC does... we haven't even exchanged ideas on a subject that might be considered Politically Incorrect, and you are already assuming that if we did and I were to disagree with you it would be because of bigoted reasons, don't you think that's a stretch.

a reply to: Noobarino

Nope.

bigot
noun
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

Oh yes, there are various uses for the word bigot, but what it boils down to is this, if my opinion is different from yours, and you flat out don't agree with it, you can attempt to try and smear it by saying my opinion is "politically correct" because the phrase has an inherent stigma to it. Its just another label.

What you actually mean is "I don't agree with you", but oddly, by not saying that, you are being politically correct.

a reply to: neformore

That is the thing though...I don't think your views are wrong because they are " politcally correct ", I would scrutinize your views individually on their own merits

But when Political Correctness enters the picture, opposing views are not scrutinized on their individual merit, they are lumped together and labeled as hate, racism, bigotry or oppressive.

As we see in Germany

a reply to: Astyanax

...we all contradict ourselves from time to time, don’t we?

We do. Pretending that I can turn a tide with a word doesn't help. Running interference for the indefensible on behalf of the defenseless and hoping that somehow out of all of this some kind of reason will float to the top like cream is maybe just plain crazy

Wishing for something better isn't the same thing as working for something better. But words are all we have

Seems like not even so much as a butterfly wing's effect on anything sometimes. And in the end I'm left talking in circles to myself. So much for credibility or cogency 

:-)

Since you posted this, news has broken concerning an official report on the Cologne incidents that seems to be saying that it was ‘almost exclusively’ Arab migrants.
Obviously not all Arab migrants were involved — there are, after all, millions and millions of them. But yes, the bigots and the irredeemably malicious will use this report to make out that all (male) Arabs are lechers and molesters of women. It’s obnoxious — but we can’t stop them, not if we value freedom of speech as highly as we should. All we can do is oppose them — only to hear them wail that they’re being censored by the politically correct liberal police. Can’t do anything about that either.

I do value freedom of speech. Also my butterfly wings, however inadequate they might be

Like I said earlier, this is going to go the way it goes. I have a feeling it will be ugly, but I'm often wrong. I'll absorb as many brickbats as I can. I actually receive far fewer than I expect. I'm never sure why that is

Or, I'll just shut up. There's no tellin' :-)

a reply to: Noobarino

This is already happening though. In Germany right now, they are using Political Correctness to label ideas and opinions about immigration that do not follow their narrative as " hate speech " 

Is any of it hate speech? Do you think there is such a thing as hate speech?

If Germany is saying that Germans can't say things - that's a problem. If you're saying that people are calling what people are saying hate speech - that's a different kind of problem

If you think it's political correctness that's the problem, maybe the Germans should ban that too. No more talking - everybody keep your opinions to yourselves

Here's one reaction:
www.washingtonpost.com... 2_story.html#

Here's another:
www.theguardian.com...

I honestly don't know what they're going to do

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Who gets to decide what is hate speech though ?

What if a German gentleman opposed immigration purely for economic reasons, with no hate or bigotry in his heart. He may not want his taxes raised, and he may have a couple of teenage sons who about to enter the job market and doesn't want the extra competition driving down wages and making jobs more difficult to find.

The Politcally Correct crowd could still come behind him and say he's just a privileged oppressor, unwilling to share his wealth with the poor brown refugees, and accuse him of bigotry, when there is none to be found.


The German Government would erase his Facebook post because " anyone who opposes immigration must be racist "

a reply to: Noobarino

Like I just said - I don't know what Germany is going to do

The Politcally Correct crowd could still come behind him and say he's just a privileged oppressor, unwilling to share his wealth with the poor brown refugees, and accuse him of bigotry, when there is none to be found. 

Can the politically correct crowd do anything to him besides make him feel bad or make him angry?

Maybe they should ban politically correct speech? If you ask me again I'll say the same thing...

Sorry about that link in the last post - can't get it to work - it was about hate speech. Germany has laws in place - I'm thinking that if the laws are out of line in a free country - then that's where Germans should focus their attention

originally posted by: Noobarino
What if a German gentleman opposed immigration purely for economic reasons, with no hate or bigotry in his heart. He may not want his taxes raised, and he may have a couple of teenage sons who about to enter the job market and doesn't want the extra competition driving down wages and making jobs more difficult to find.

Then that German gentleman would be a strawman character created for the purposes of justifying someones bigotry.

People get jobs on two merits. Capability/willingness to work and willingness to accept pay and conditions. Blaming immigrants for getting jobs is an artifical construct, because people have to employ them first. The problem there is not with the immigrants, its with the employer who exploits them.

Similarly, if the immigrants are doing low paid jobs, thats not because they are immigrants, thats because people who could have those jobs don't want them, or don't accept the pay and conditions attached to them

In neither case is it the immigrants fault, because the "everyday german" could take the jobs at the same pay and conditions. Its the fault of the german economy and/or employment market.

Blaming the immigrants is just bigotry, because he simply doesn't like them.

Incidentally, they went down that road in Germany in the 30's. Didn't turn out so well.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

""" Can the politically correct crowd do anything to him besides make him feel bad or make him angry? """

Yes, they can...they can deprive him of his right to free speech and open sharing of ideas by erasing and restricting his social media, as they are doing in Germany now.

a reply to: neformore

""" Then that German gentleman would be a strawman character created for the purposes of justifying someones bigotry. ""

I don't understand, are you saying there is no possible reason to oppose the current immigration policies other than racism or bigotry ?

a reply to: Noobarino
Then the Germans need to decide if you can say anything you want on Facebook - or not

Or, they could ban politically correct speech

Or - they could ban all speech. There's only so many choices...

What do you think they should do?

a reply to: Noobarino

When it boils down to it - yes.

You can run round in circles with it all you want, but it all comes back to one point really.

Sure, there may be reasons he's got to that point - poor education, fear, propaganda etc, but the inherent factor in it all is that he is ignorant - in this carefully constructed strawman case its appears his ignorance is about how free employment markets work.

That or he simply does not like the people because of the colour of their skin or religious belief, probably because people use terms like "invasion" and try and suggest that criminal activities are synonymous to all immigrants, cherry pick quotes from books and describe them as animals etc.

All the time forgetting that we are all immigrants in one sense or another, because humanity came out of Africa initially, and geographical boundaries are an entirely man made construct that have changed constantly throughout the years.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Noobarino
Then the Germans need to decide if you can say anything you want on Facebook - or not

Or, they could ban politically correct speech

Or - they could ban all speech. There's only so many choices...

What do you think they should do?

Well, I kind of like the current method of American Internet control and media. Sure there is too much spin and half-truths in American media, but they get to say what they want pretty much

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: Noobarino

When it boils down to it - yes.

You can run round in circles with it all you want, but it all comes back to one point really.

Sure, there may be reasons he's got to that point - poor education, fear, propaganda etc, but the inherent factor in it all is that he is ignorant - in this carefully constructed strawman case its appears his ignorance is about how free employment markets work.

That or he simply does not like the people because of the colour of their skin or religious belief, probably because people use terms like "invasion" and try and suggest that criminal activities are synonymous to all immigrants, cherry pick quotes from books and describe them as animals etc.

All the time forgetting that we are all immigrants in one sense or another, because humanity came out of Africa initially, and geographical boundaries are an entirely man made construct that have changed constantly throughout the years.

Lemme get this straight....

You honestly believe that the only reasons a person would disagree with you on immigration is because

1. They are not as educated as you are, or they lack your understanding
2. They are " haters "
3. They can't understand and empathize that we are all immigrants

I find it hard to believe that you honestly believe that, you sound like the people in this video

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Noobarino

Again, you throw out labels to justify labels.

I am presenting a different viewpoint to your original post, and the comments I've read since it.

The beauty of this being a discussion - and not an agreement - forum is that different viewpoints can be put forward. You don't have to agree with them.

In this case you don't.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: Noobarino

Again, you throw out labels to justify labels.

I am presenting a different viewpoint to your original post, and the comments I've read since it.

The beauty of this being a discussion - and not an agreement - forum is that different viewpoints can be put forward. You don't have to agree with them.

In this case you don't.

You haven't put forth any viewpoints other than anyone who disagrees with a Politically Correct Stance on any issue is either uneducated or a hater....

That is not a viewpoint, is it ?

a reply to: Noobarino

Well, I kind of like the current method of American Internet control and media. Sure there is too much spin and half-truths in American media, but they get to say what they want pretty much

You should talk to the Germans then - they need to know about this right away

Some people should be free to float their filth and hatred - and others should be free to criticize all that

Some will meet in the middle to try and figure out the best way to get along

Same as here. Good luck to all of us

Here is the one problem that comes to mind when one mentions PC.

One group will often say one term or label is offensive and then when the public gives in and stops using it, the original group goes back to using it. It stinks big time.

originally posted by: Indigo5

I haven't seen any public discourse where the PC police push back on the statement "Most terrorists are Muslim".

Everyone agree in the PC crowd it is OK to say that most terrorist are Muslim?

Put another way...if the predominant religion of the middle east was Christian...but the governments were still the same (tyrannical and oppressive) and massive swaths of the population were growing up in war zones and severely impoverished...then we would have equal amounts of terrorsits, they would just be ranting about the Old Testament whilst beheading and stoning people.

Well we do have non-Muslim governments and they are not beheading and stoning people in the name of their religion. It seems most of that is in the Islam world. The tyrannical and oppressive nature of these countries is all self induced. Muslims would rather kill each other than outsiders anyways.

We can look to the outlier example of Africa + Christian regions...where Christian communities engage in extreme violence, like the Lords resistance Army (Kony) and others.

They are warlords first maybe so called Christians second or third, so they are not doing their extreme violence in the name of Christianity. Muslims do it in the name of Islam since Islam is first, second and third, quite different.

I see Islam as a tool for terrorists, not a cause.

I think it is both.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Sucks to pick the wrong side of the war.

Which war would that be, then? The First World War? The Arabs were on the winning side in that one.