Unprecedented sex harassment in Helsinki at New Year, Finnish police report

a reply to: symphonyofblase

Wow, seems like I've hit a nerve!!

Do you always put so much effort into arguing with people on the internet.

Let me summarise my side, to make it easier for you.

The use of the phrase "sexual harassment" that you are so desperate to defend, pales when faced with the actual events, group assaults on women. I was replying to the OP - which you used earlier as it suited you - that claimed rape.

If that is not the case, that's fine, maybe I should have said "You mean like you are when you say "people who file police reports" rather than sexual assault victims??" You're undermining victims, that's not on.

What is your point? Are you just trying to win an argument on the internet, regardless of the subject matter, which, in this case boils down to you downplaying a group assault of women.

You claim others of having an "agenda". Well, yes.... we have an agenda. That agenda is to look after our women. That agenda is to not accuse SEXUAL ABUSE victims of being liars.

What's yours? You should be careful not to get so deep into semantics that you totally miss the point.

Apparently Kurdish women are heroically waging the good fight on the front lines.

Meanwhile...back in Germany...the majority of 'asylum seekers' are able bodied fighting age men hell bent on imposing their backward, primitive social mores on their gracious hosts, shamelessly.

Whilst their 'lower class' sisters fight fearlessly against their country's enemies, these 'men' molest and RAPE girls, piss and defecate before a a beautiful cathedral, get drunk, and shoot firecrackers in the face of innocents, spit at cops.

Enough Said. Next gathering the cops need show no mercy and get their acts together.

originally posted by: Dem0nc1eaner
a reply to: symphonyofblase

Wow, seems like I've hit a nerve!!

Do you always put so much effort into arguing with people on the internet.

Let me summarise my side, to make it easier for you.

The use of the phrase "sexual harassment" that you are so desperate to defend, pales when faced with the actual events, group assaults on women. I was replying to the OP - which you used earlier as it suited you - that claimed rape.

If that is not the case, that's fine, maybe I should have said "You mean like you are when you say "people who file police reports" rather than sexual assault victims??" You're undermining victims, that's not on.

What is your point? Are you just trying to win an argument on the internet, regardless of the subject matter, which, in this case boils down to you downplaying a group assault of women.

You claim others of having an "agenda". Well, yes.... we have an agenda. That agenda is to look after our women. That agenda is to not accuse SEXUAL ABUSE victims of being liars.

What's yours? You should be careful not to get so deep into semantics that you totally miss the point.

Not at all. No effort involved in that, you make it all too easy.
And there's no argument happening here, I don't understand why you lot always try to turn everything into an argument.

You've done exactly what I said you would do, and you're not the first to resort to trying to bring the concept of semantics into the equation, in order to try to avoid answering the questions you have no answers for.

a reply to: Airewenna

I keep trying to post the video of a cologne assault that has been appearing and disappearing on YouTube. Each time I feel too sick to post it. Let's just say the action of 'molesting' is so devastating in this context that incarceration of the perpetrators is the only civilised solution. I'm beginning to suspect some of the perpetrators were exiled from their own lands for similar crimes.

a reply to: symphonyofblase

There's no semantics involved if someone touches a woman by grabbing body parts thats inappropriate and sexual harrasment. Calling them names such as whore etc is sexual harrasment. Forcing them to have sex is rape. Simple no definition problems these people did both to women that night. Frankly in the US there would have been deaths over this behavior. Good or bad amaricans are less likely to stand by and watch a woman being abused. Now the argument is down to perpatrators they were obviously immigrants as stated on the police reports and the charges the victims made. So either you believe over 100 were assaulted or they are liars.

There is no semantics in this at all. I personally believe the victims and think something needs to be done to protect them from incidents like this in the future. If you can't protect a woman then your society has failed. It dorant matter if we have a clash of different cultures and these immigrants have different beliefs their choice is simple conform or leave.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

What? you racist, bigot... How dare you write this?... Women allowing any man to kiss them without their permission is progress. If a woman says no, it means yes didn't you know that?

Hey, i am hispanic so if i approach any woman and just kiss her in the mouth without her approval i must be turning liberal and anti-racist? After all, it is progress right? Every woman should accept me otherwise they are the racist ones... (sarcasm off)

a reply to: Kester

Since day one I wrote in the forums that any asylum seeker that resorted to any sort of violence should have been banned from European borders. But instead we were told by quite a few members that "this was all made up by the right..."

Only women and children, or men traveling with their families and who proved to be Syrian should have been allowed in European countries.

Sexual assault means touching, knowingly and repeatedly brushing any woman or man without their consent. In the name of "progress" sexual assaults will probably continue increasing as long as these governments don't take a harder stance against such violators.

Violence, either from left, or right is not ok unless you are defending your family or loved ones, or yourself from harm.

You can only kiss or touch a woman/man if they agree to it. I would probably be called a "white racist" because there are some white women I wouldn't kiss for the life of me, such as meth users, or smokers among others.

Because a person has a particular like, or dislike doesn't make them racist, or bigot. But there seems to be more and more people that don't understand these concepts.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It's important to know what level of assault we're discussing here. So many contributors are trying to play it down as minor harassment.

It's starting to look like we've been sent a very disproportionate number of criminals.


DON'T WATCH THIS IF IT WILL DRIVE YOU MAD! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

a reply to: Kester

Yeah I shouldnt have watched it. But in thr video the young man brought up a typical point. He said I know its wrong but they force us to do it by the way they dress or the way they walk. In onlther words being a woman. But more this made me think of the differences between west and Islamic countries. In the west a woman can flash an entire group like madi gras or spring break and guys don't go nuts like in this video. So you have to ask why and I think the answer is obvious sex in Islamic countries is some evil and by extentuon woman are for tempting guys to this evil.

Makes me wonder if these two very different cultures trying to occupy the same space can work. Having lived in Germany I can tell you I've seen women sun bathing in a park naked. It's on their commercials and when they go to clubs they show a lot of skin. Reminds me need to visit but that aside throw in a culture that thinks nudity is wrong and sex is evil temptation these two will have to clash. So one or the other would need to change. And maybe that's all part of the big plan who knows. And now that I think about it this might have been their way of changing german society to their standards and this was actually planned what do you think??

a reply to: symphonyofblase

My views are not just exclusive to refugees. I don't have that mental disability that would allow me to think that only a person from a certain country, or of a certain skin colour, is capable of rape and sexual assault.

No you seem to plagued by various other mental disabilities.

No one is making the point that only muslims are capable of such behavior. People are saying that they are way more likely to display this sort of behavior, en masse, as evidenced by the events of new year's eve.

Can you give examples of other cases in which you suggested that specific groups of people needed to be educated on how to treat women?

Was there ever a mass event involving non muslim men?

You are clearly admitting that this is a real problem among these refugees, otherwise there would be no reason to suggest education for these people.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Profound, insightful words - I totally concur, & lan to quote you frequently (if I may)

Cheers from Finland,

I want to clarify there is no freaking way immigrants could start mass actions here. Finland has a military service tradition, which means in 5 million country we have 900 000 people trained to be a soldiers. I am one of the chill guys with a liberal humane way to think about things, and I'm an artist. Even I was forced to learn through that six month period how to crawl in the forest and snipe a rifle to kill a person. Then there are those people which are not nice and they're majority.

In our city all the immigrants are freaked out already.

originally posted by: NeoSpartan

No you seem to plagued by various other mental disabilities.

No one is making the point that only muslims are capable of such behavior. People are saying that they are way more likely to display this sort of behavior, en masse, as evidenced by the events of new year's eve.

I have seen people in the Cologne thread refer to the alleged offendors as "Muslims", even though there is absolutely no evidence at all that the offendors were even religious, so why say that if there isn't a conscious effort by those people being made to try to get others to associate the assaults with Islam?
Of all the news articles that have been posted in this thread and the Cologne thread, I didn't read a single one that made reference to Islam or Muslims, so why try to bring that into the discussion?
Even now, you're quoting my comment and specifically referring to Muslims multiple times, when I made no mention of Muslims in the first place. Why are you trying to bring religion into this?

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
Can you give examples of other cases in which you suggested that specific groups of people needed to be educated on how to treat women?

This question is irrelevant, because hysterical threads on ATS aren't created by aryan xenophobes when white skinned people do that sort of thing to others. There aren't any threads available for me to suggest this in, and it's not because people who aren't from the Middle East don't commit these sorts of mass crimes too.

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
Was there ever a mass event involving non muslim men?

WELL, now that you bring it up, have you ever heard of the "White Eagles" paramilitary group? They were formed by white Christian Serbians, and during the Bosnian War of 1992-1995, they were ordered by their Christian leaders to embark on one of the biggest rape and ethnic-cleansing sprees in history. Here's some juicy details for you:

The rapes in Bosnia: A Muslim schoolgirl’s account

And so Jasna, who said she had never had a boyfriend, tried to stop crying as she was raped. According to the Bosnian government, more than 30,000 women have been raped in this former Yugoslav republic’s nine-month-old war, with some of the victims as young as 12. The government, partly supported by testimony from Muslim victims and captured Bosnian Serb soldiers, has accused the Serbs of employing rape as a tactic to “boost morale” among the victorious fighters and humiliate Bosnian women and their families. A captured Serb soldier in Sarajevo, the capital, has told journalists that men in his unit were ordered to rape. The soldier, Borislav Herak, admitted violating two Muslim women at a “rape motel” outside Sarajevo and then killing them.

Nobody on ATS has created a thread about this, what a surprise, is it because the offendors are white and/or Christian?

Oh, there's also this too:

The War on Congo's Women

As many as 500,000 women have been raped in the Democratic Republic of Congo since it plunged into an ongoing civil war in 1996

The militias doing the raping in the Congo are CHRISTIAN militias such as the "Lord's Resistance Army" and the "National Congress for the Defence of the People".
Did you know that Laurent Nkunda the founder and leader of the "National Congress for the Defence of the People" is a Christian preacher and an Ordained Minister? No, of course you don't, and you don't care anyway because he's not a Muslim, right?

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
You are clearly admitting that this is a real problem among these refugees, otherwise there would be no reason to suggest education for these people.

Okay, how about I put it on record in this comment, since there is no thread in existence?
Non-refugee Christian Serbians need to be educated and taught that raping and killing Muslim Bosnian women is wrong.



You have a join date of January 10, 2016. All but 3 of your 38 posts are in threads directly relating to recent events in Europe.
You have an agenda, and this agenda is made obvious by the things you say, and the threads you are saying it in.

originally posted by: symphonyofblase

originally posted by: NeoSpartan

No you seem to plagued by various other mental disabilities.

No one is making the point that only muslims are capable of such behavior. People are saying that they are way more likely to display this sort of behavior, en masse, as evidenced by the events of new year's eve.

I have seen people in the Cologne thread refer to the alleged offendors as "Muslims", even though there is absolutely no evidence at all that the offendors were even religious, so why say that if there isn't a conscious effort by those people being made to try to get others to associate the assaults with Islam?
Of all the news articles that have been posted in this thread and the Cologne thread, I didn't read a single one that made reference to Islam or Muslims, so why try to bring that into the discussion?
Even now, you're quoting my comment and specifically referring to Muslims multiple times, when I made no mention of Muslims in the first place. Why are you trying to bring religion into this?

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
Can you give examples of other cases in which you suggested that specific groups of people needed to be educated on how to treat women?

This question is irrelevant, because hysterical threads on ATS aren't created by aryan xenophobes when white skinned people do that sort of thing to others. There aren't any threads available for me to suggest this in, and it's not because people who aren't from the Middle East don't commit these sorts of mass crimes too.

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
Was there ever a mass event involving non muslim men?

WELL, now that you bring it up, have you ever heard of the "White Eagles" paramilitary group? They were formed by white Christian Serbians, and during the Bosnian War of 1992-1995, they were ordered by their Christian leaders to embark on one of the biggest rape and ethnic-cleansing sprees in history. Here's some juicy details for you:

The rapes in Bosnia: A Muslim schoolgirl’s account

And so Jasna, who said she had never had a boyfriend, tried to stop crying as she was raped. According to the Bosnian government, more than 30,000 women have been raped in this former Yugoslav republic’s nine-month-old war, with some of the victims as young as 12. The government, partly supported by testimony from Muslim victims and captured Bosnian Serb soldiers, has accused the Serbs of employing rape as a tactic to “boost morale” among the victorious fighters and humiliate Bosnian women and their families. A captured Serb soldier in Sarajevo, the capital, has told journalists that men in his unit were ordered to rape. The soldier, Borislav Herak, admitted violating two Muslim women at a “rape motel” outside Sarajevo and then killing them.

Nobody on ATS has created a thread about this, what a surprise, is it because the offendors are white and/or Christian?

Oh, there's also this too:

The War on Congo's Women

As many as 500,000 women have been raped in the Democratic Republic of Congo since it plunged into an ongoing civil war in 1996

The militias doing the raping in the Congo are CHRISTIAN militias such as the "Lord's Resistance Army" and the "National Congress for the Defence of the People".
Did you know that Laurent Nkunda the founder and leader of the "National Congress for the Defence of the People" is a Christian preacher and an Ordained Minister? No, of course you don't, and you don't care anyway because he's not a Muslim, right?

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
You are clearly admitting that this is a real problem among these refugees, otherwise there would be no reason to suggest education for these people.

Okay, how about I put it on record in this comment, since there is no thread in existence?
Non-refugee Christian Serbians need to be educated and taught that raping and killing Muslim Bosnian women is wrong.



You have a join date of January 10, 2016. All but 3 of your 38 posts are in threads directly relating to recent events in Europe.
You have an agenda, and this agenda is made obvious by the things you say, and the threads you are saying it in.

Jeez your really grasping at strawmans.

So you are saying that many of the ME cultures don't subjugate woman legally? That there is no issue here to adress?

I think you are part of an agenda too.

There are only a few ME moderate Muslim nations in regard to gender equality. Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The rest including north African countries allow woman to be abused culturally and legally. Are all the amnesty and human rights watch workers also xenophobic ? Or are they trying to bring awareness to human rights problems.

Just because other people or cultures rape does not change the problem that many ME versions of Islam do I'm fact subjugate woman. The actual government punished woman for being raped. A woman was just whipped 400 times in Saudia Arabia for being raped because she wasn't with a man.

There are plenty of Modern Muslims and modern Muslim social constructs but even Muslims know their is a problem and are trying to change their culture and country. (Like Indonesia ). But ignoring and pretending the problem isn't there is dangerous to the refugees who want a better life and want to assimilate and to the reformers in their own countries.

I studied music from a Sufi from Lebanon. He thought the culture in much of the middle East was barbaric.

Now that the fears of the public have had some verification the backlash is happening. The problem should be examined from an anthropological and sociological perspective to help deal with it. It shouldn't be ignored, marginalized, and called a hoax.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Its because the SJWs turn it around and say its just a bunch of racist liars. I just don't understand how feminists especially aren't speaking out as much as they do about... everything (militant feminists)

This is a criminal matter not an equality matter, it is up to the authorities to serve and protect all citizens. I wonder if these perpetrators know what the laws are in Finland? It appears that first generation immigrants have a lot to learn (quote below from Wikipedia). It also appears alcohol may play a large role as modern day muslims do drink alcohol (perhaps overindulging once out of repressive countries) and these unprecedented mob attacks happened over New Year's eve festivities.

Of the cases reported to the police, the assaulter and the assaulted normally know each other and only in one in every four reported cases is the assaulter a stranger. In almost all the cases, the suspected perpetrator is a male. In the harassment experienced by men, the perpetrator was usually the same age as the harassed, while in the cases of harassment experienced by women, the perpetrator was normally around the same age or older than the victim.

According to a study done by Martti Lehti et al (2014), 28 percent of the suspects for crimes associated with rape were first generation immigrants while second generation immigrants formed a little less than 1 percent. The number of crimes per immigrant who lives in Finland is almost eight times as high as that of native Finns when looking at rape related crimes. It was also stated that the immigrants originating from Africa and Middle East commit the highest levels of crimes, with the level being seventeen times as high as that of native Finns. The offenses committed by the immigrant groups most often target the natives of the area.

Most cases of any kind crimes related with violence are overwhelmingly related to alcohol with 60 percent of violent crimes being committed while under the influence of alcohol and with about 86 percent of incest abuse cases occurring when the abuser was intoxicated."

www.aquila-style.com...

when you take large groups of sexually repressed, horny young men (mob mentality) from extremely sexually conservative countries and place them in one of the most sexually liberal places on earth (Europe) this kind of sick behavior is going to happen. too many young men lumped together and they are going to turn into animals, mob, prison mentality.

sad to say it but I do not see the situation in Europe playing out well. the mass influx of refugees will lead to more crime and also terrorism which will lead to more hate on the refugees and muslim communities as a whole. I fear that eventually all this will lead to some serious ethnic cleansing in Europe of holocaust proportions, another holy war/crusades/inquisition if you will, with the Europeans either expelling the muslims from Europe or the muslims eventually taking over Europe. scary times ahead.

originally posted by: luthier

Jeez your really grasping at strawmans.

So you are saying that many of the ME cultures don't subjugate woman legally? That there is no issue here to adress?

I think you are part of an agenda too.

There are only a few ME moderate Muslim nations in regard to gender equality. Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The rest including north African countries allow woman to be abused culturally and legally. Are all the amnesty and human rights watch workers also xenophobic ? Or are they trying to bring awareness to human rights problems.

Just because other people or cultures rape does not change the problem that many ME versions of Islam do I'm fact subjugate woman. The actual government punished woman for being raped. A woman was just whipped 400 times in Saudia Arabia for being raped because she wasn't with a man.

There are plenty of Modern Muslims and modern Muslim social constructs but even Muslims know their is a problem and are trying to change their culture and country. (Like Indonesia ). But ignoring and pretending the problem isn't there is dangerous to the refugees who want a better life and want to assimilate and to the reformers in their own countries.

I studied music from a Sufi from Lebanon. He thought the culture in much of the middle East was barbaric.

Now that the fears of the public have had some verification the backlash is happening. The problem should be examined from an anthropological and sociological perspective to help deal with it. It shouldn't be ignored, marginalized, and called a hoax.

How is that in any way grasping at straws?
You're just reading what you want to read, and ignoring the rest.

My entire post was a direct contradiction to someone trying to persecute a single religion, yet somehow you seem to think I am talking about an entire region of the world?

I've never tried to say that the Middle East is not an oppressive and abusive place. I'm well aware of what goes on in the ME, you don't have to waste energy telling me these things. Culture and Religion are not the same thing

originally posted by: symphonyofblase

originally posted by: luthier

Jeez your really grasping at strawmans.

So you are saying that many of the ME cultures don't subjugate woman legally? That there is no issue here to adress?

I think you are part of an agenda too.

There are only a few ME moderate Muslim nations in regard to gender equality. Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The rest including north African countries allow woman to be abused culturally and legally. Are all the amnesty and human rights watch workers also xenophobic ? Or are they trying to bring awareness to human rights problems.

Just because other people or cultures rape does not change the problem that many ME versions of Islam do I'm fact subjugate woman. The actual government punished woman for being raped. A woman was just whipped 400 times in Saudia Arabia for being raped because she wasn't with a man.

There are plenty of Modern Muslims and modern Muslim social constructs but even Muslims know their is a problem and are trying to change their culture and country. (Like Indonesia ). But ignoring and pretending the problem isn't there is dangerous to the refugees who want a better life and want to assimilate and to the reformers in their own countries.

I studied music from a Sufi from Lebanon. He thought the culture in much of the middle East was barbaric.

Now that the fears of the public have had some verification the backlash is happening. The problem should be examined from an anthropological and sociological perspective to help deal with it. It shouldn't be ignored, marginalized, and called a hoax.

How is that in any way grasping at straws?
You're just reading what you want to read, and ignoring the rest.

My entire post was a direct contradiction to someone trying to persecute a single religion, yet somehow you seem to think I am talking about an entire region of the world?

I've never tried to say that the Middle East is not an oppressive and abusive place. I'm well aware of what goes on in the ME, you don't have to waste energy telling me these things. Culture and Religion are not the same thing

I said strawmans not straws.

Your very first paragraph dismisses there is a Muslim issue. It is not just a regional issue. It's following the original version and interpretation of the Koran.

Just like Christianity had its schisms that is what is needed in Islam to change human rights issues. It is in fact their religion which dictates these subjugation laws and practices.

Or rather their interpretation of the religion. Any way you slice it your trying to say Islam has no part in these crimes. Which just isn't true. The Islamic way of life in the ME does in fact come into play when considering the issue.

a reply to: slider1982

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