Why doesn't law enforcement at least secure the Malheur site?

I'm not commenting here on the validity of the complaints of the occupiers in Oregon or about the merits of the Hammond case; just about how this is being handled. From the Arizona Daily Star:

Three men led by Michael Lewis Arthur Meyer, founder of the Veterans on Patrol group that built a shelter for homeless veterans and others at Santa Rita Park, arrived in Burns, Oregon, on Wednesday to get a friend out of the occupied Malheur National Wildlife Refuge....

The Oregonian newspaper reported a fight broke out between Meyer’s group and militant group member Blaine Cooper...

In a Facebook message Cooper said Meyer and two men entered the refuge Wednesday night and assaulted a disabled Vietnam veteran. They then “stormed into the refuge” and assaulted Cooper...

Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
The Veterans on Patrol Facebook page said militia members assaulted the group’s “Crisis Response Team.” One of the Veterans on Patrol members was taken to the hospital with what The Oregonian reported was a black eye.

tucson.com...

You have armed men initiating a stand-off with the federal government who apparently HAVE CHILDREN WITH THEM.

And another group of men are somehow able to enter the building and engage in a physical confrontation with them????

What if people had started shooting? Who would be responsible for a child who was injured or killed in that event?

Shouldn't law enforcement at least establish some sort of perimeter to keep the situation under some semblance of control? For everyone's protection?

And another armed group has also arrived:

Members of a group from outside Oregon arrived on Friday at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to "secure a perimeter" around the compound and prevent "a Waco-style situation."

The [3% of Idaho] website says it stands for "freedom, liberty and the Constitution. We will combat all those who are corrupt." The website displays the motto, "When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty!"....

Curtiss and Chris McIntire, another group spokesman, called the situation a "double-edged sword" – the perimeter is meant to protect the occupiers from an outside attack but also to protect the Harney County community from those who arrive in solidarity with Bundy's cause but may be prone to violence, they said.

www.oregonlive.com...

Shouldn't it be the responsibility of law enforcement to protect the Harney County community from outside groups who are prone to violence? Is any armed group or individual with any agenda going to be allowed to just show up and set up base and/or enter the building? The situation seems like it's out of control.

a reply to: DelMarvel

It is being left open to draw in more militia to provide a significant confrontation with the federal forces. It would have been sealed if the feds had any interest in reducing the ultimate causality count. That is obviously not the intended goal here.

These guys are clamoring for attention and spoiling for a fight.....even if they have to start it. Law enforcement is smart to just observe, but otherwise not contact them and give them an excuse to start something that will, in all probability, end in disaster.

originally posted by: machineintelligence
a reply to: DelMarvel

It is being left open to draw in more militia to provide a significant confrontation with the federal forces. It would have been sealed if the feds had any interest in reducing the ultimate causality count. That is obviously not the intended goal here.

I can't completely reject that theory out of hand, I guess, though it seems unlikely to me.

The way things appear to be going it seems just as likely that these groups might wind up shooting at each other.

originally posted by: DAVID64
These guys are clamoring for attention and spoiling for a fight.....even if they have to start it. Law enforcement is smart to just observe, but otherwise not contact them and give them an excuse to start something that will, in all probability, end in disaster.

I can see the logic in that but couldn't they at least prevent people from coming in and out without escalating the situation? If people are just waltzing in there and having fist fights with them that could end in disaster, too.

And I don't know how I missed it in the coverage before but they apparently have women and children in there with them. That completely destroyed even my tiny shred of sympathy for these idiots.

Threat to the public is minimal. The occupation is not near neighborhoods and the occupiers are not inclined to bother people. Except for lunch orders and other necessities, yo.

originally posted by: JohnthePhilistine
Threat to the public is minimal. The occupation is not near neighborhoods and the occupiers are not inclined to bother people.

They are armed. They have expressed a willingness to die. Other men were reportedly able to enter the building and engage in a physical confrontation with them. There are apparently children there who would have to qualify as part of "the public" and are clearly in harm's way.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Shouldn't law enforcement at least establish some sort of perimeter to keep the situation under some semblance of control? For everyone's protection?

Most if not all what you are hearing coming out of there now is BS, manipulated for your politically correct senses of outrage and decency.

You bet they got a perimeter. More a siege, still in the early stages. If they Waco the place you aren't going to be witness this time. There is video somewhere of the psypos they ran at night on Waco, flashing lights and loud noise, low flying helicopters, heavy tracks, all night long for weeks. I can only find this soundtrack of some of the psychological warfare they were carrying on. Sleep deprivation through sound and light to wear people down, they do the same thing in Gitmo

a reply to: machineintelligence

This new incident could be part of the plan?

Classic set-up.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: DelMarvel

Shouldn't law enforcement at least establish some sort of perimeter to keep the situation under some semblance of control? For everyone's protection?

Most if not all what you are hearing coming out of there now is BS, manipulated for your politically correct senses of outrage and decency.

You bet they got a perimeter. More a siege, still in the early stages. If they Waco the place you aren't going to be witness this time. There is video somewhere of the psypos they ran at night on Waco, flashing lights and loud noise, low flying helicopters, heavy tracks, all night long for weeks. I can only find this soundtrack of some of the psychological warfare they were carrying on. Sleep deprivation through sound and light to wear people down, they do the same thing in Gitmo

Well, obviously none of this is happening now.

These guys are still posting to social media and would be reporting it.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Well, obviously none of this is happening now.

Yet.

If a real movement, it will be infiltrated (what this 'incident' sounds like), isolated and eventually squashed.

For all the lame brains, I said "eventually".

If they really have children with them, there even dummer than i thought, trying to pick a fight with the us government is not a smart move to start with.

If local law enforcement is smart, and really wants safety for the community, they will protect the community from the feds, not from the militia. And no one has killed anyone yet, so the only danger would be if the feds came in and provoked a fight.

Like they did at Waco, except that was more like a Nazi style mass execution. Or Ruby Ridge when they murdered a pregnant woman.

Since when do the feds show up waving the white flag of peace? Never, and when they show up it is to kill people with or without cause. Preferably without cause as history shows..

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
And no one has killed anyone yet, so the only danger would be if the feds came in and provoked a fight.

No, there is obviously the danger of ANYONE coming in and provoking a fight (or being provoked.) According to the Veterans on Patrol Facebook page, there was media on the site when this incident happened. These VOP guys apparently just came in and set up camp and according to them the ones occupying the building started the fight. So anyone can just come and go and all it would take is one unhinged individual showing up for something to happen.

Well. If these Raw Story reports are accurate this whole affair is nothing but a big joke:

Oregon militants brawl as friends beg them to go home: ‘You’re surrounded by informants’

Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’

heartbroken militiaman announced that one of his buddies had walked off the Oregon nature preserve they had overtaken and had holed up in a local motel to drink away donation money.

Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

But his friends tearfully announced [Cai Irvin via a Facebook video].that Oshaugnessy, who is known as “Capt. O,” had left the refuge Wednesday and was instead staying at a motel nearby — as some others associated with the militants have apparently been doing, according to sources.

Some of the militants have reportedly been spotted eating at area restaurants during the standoff, as well.

The militants have been allowed to come and go freely from the nature preserve in the absence of a law enforcement presence, but at least one of them, Brian “Booda” Cavalier, failed to return after a newspaper report revealed he had lied about serving in the U.S. Marines.

dammed if you do - dammed if you dont :

this is one of those threads

if the authorities had prevented others from free movement // communications

there would be ATS threads denouncing the " suppression " of thier " rights "

you cannot have it both ways

They are not a direct threat to anybody. The fact the people they went to support want nothing to do with them and the locals want them gone along with all the stupid things they say and do has made them a laughing stock. Local, State and Federal are letting this collection of idiots have all the rope they want to hang themselves. By treating them like they are joke, law enforcement has done more damage than they could arresting them. On top of that as time goes on public opinion is going more and more demand they be dealt with as a pack of armed lunatics. You can always count on these militias to make fools of themselves and the Government is letting them have center stage so everybody can see.

I think law enforcement/Fed has played this one perfectly...

the more heavy handed the response the more support they are likely to receive, as more people take a harder look at the issues surrounding BLM... which could lead to more direct support.

Why force a confrontation. If you just leave them alone, they will get bored and run out of pies and fries. They'll leave of their on volition and not in a coffin. That's good for everybody.

People who draw parallel with this and Waco are silly. The similarly is a bunch of heavily armed people. Waco were religious nutters who wanted to die. Besides lessons learnt are all about reducing the risk of confrontation.

originally posted by: paraphi
Why force a confrontation. If you just leave them alone, they will get bored and run out of pies and fries. They'll leave of their on volition and not in a coffin. That's good for everybody.
.

I'm not advocating forcing a confrontation. I think law enforcement should meet with them and tell them they are not going to try to remove them by force under any circumstance but that no one else will be allowed in and no one will be allowed to leave and return.

If these guys are really sleeping in motels and eating at restaurants who knows how long this nonsense might stretch out. There are apparently now multiple armed groups running around the community who may be in conflict with each other. A lawless situation like this also poses a risk.