SEIU Chief Says Trump Can Win, Union Goons Have One-On-Ones With Every Member

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: tinner07
my other question is " how are you forced to pay dues" ?

By choice of keeping your job or losing it. If you don't pay dues, you are booted out of your job. It isn't rocket science.

Unless you live in a non right-to-work law, or "closed shop" state, that's an absolute lie and a revelation in how little you know about unions and/or federal law regulating them.

You might also want to note that it's against federal law for unions to use "dues" for political purposes as well.

So if your going to bitch about the money unions use for political purposes, you might want to spend some time educating yourself with respect to it's source.

And don't look to me for the answers, go research it yourself. Or better yet, go join a union and find out first hand, because I'm having way too much fun watching the ignorance play out.

originally posted by: greencmp
Public sector unions have absolutely no justifiable purpose.

I call shenanigans on that!
I was a chief steward in a large public sector local, and I was a very busy guy as the employer had no compunction about #ing us over...both on micro and macro levels. Let's not assume that management getting its way always works for the best interests of the organisation. It generally works best for the managers. You know what they say...the purpose of a bureaucracy is to perpetuate itself.

Further, a collective agreement is a set of rules negotiated by both parties. It falls upon both parties to police them.

originally posted by: introvert
I support unions and what they "intend" to do. There are many localized unions that work very hard at doing what's best for their members, but I have to agree with the OP.

Many unions, such as ASFCME take too much money from their members to pay for political purposes that do not represent the political beliefs of all it's members.

If we are to stand against rulings like Citizens United and the power corporations have over the process, we must also reject the power some unions can have over the process.

No organization can represent the political beliefs of "all it's members," because people have varying political views, even within the same party. Something the GOP has made glaringly obvious.

On the other hand, unions don't "take" money from their members for political purposes without their explicit consent and that consent is not granted by virtue of joining the union.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: greencmp
Public sector unions have absolutely no justifiable purpose.

I call shenanigans on that!
I was a chief steward in a large public sector local, and I was a very busy guy as the employer had no compunction about #ing us over...both on micro and macro levels. Let's not assume that management getting its way always works for the best interests of the organisation. It generally works best for the managers. You know what they say...the purpose of a bureaucracy is to perpetuate itself.

Further, a collective agreement is a set of rules negotiated by both parties. It falls upon both parties to police them.

originally posted by: greencmp

Funny...but did you read my post? A collective agreement is a set of rules that have been hammered out between both parties, and is policed by both union and HR reps. Have you ever worked on a contract negotiation? Sat down at the table with high-priced government lawyers on the other side of the table? That's what the high-priced union lawyers are for...to even that out. I've been there...hardest work I ever did.
And just for interest, the one sticking point that management would NOT go for in a contract that was otherwise agreeable to both parties (essentially, neither side liked it much), was the issue of workplace bullying by management. They wouldn't budge an inch, and we had to cave on that to stay at our jobs.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I don't think you understand my position, as a government employee you do not have the right to organize against the citizens of your nation.

If you don't like it, get a job in the private sector. The state is not a profit making operation.

Looks like the public unions are realizing the governments are going broke.

Jealousy and nervous breakdowns won't save them.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I don't think you understand my position, as a government employee you do not have the right to organize against the citizens of your nation.
If you don't like it, get a job in the private sector. The state is not a profit making operation.

Making a decent wage with decent (and safe) working conditions has nothing to do with making a profit, but has everything to do with getting qualified people to do important work. When the employer breaks the rules, they have to be accountable, too. After all...they helped draft them.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I recommend hiring part time contractors on an as-needed basis, subject to immediate termination.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I recommend hiring part time contractors on an as-needed basis, subject to immediate termination.

Well, you get what you pay for. You could do that for customs agents, cops, teachers, administrative clerks, health inspectors, doctors... hey...even the military.

What could possibly go wrong?

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

The only thing in there that I reserve is the military.

I think we both agree that they shouldn't be able to organize against the citizens.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
The only thing in there that I reserve is the military.
I think we both agree that they shouldn't be able to organize against the citizens.

OK...aside from them, how do you think it would improve government efficiency if every day was potentially their first day at work? Do you know why GM pays employees for a paid lay-off? Not because the union thugs have intimidated their weak little board of directors into submission...it's to retain a trained work force. It's cheaper than to replace those who have gone on to more secure work. And you want the whole of your government to work on that basis?

Lemme know how that works for you. LOL!!

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

That's how it is for most people and they do just fine if not much, much better.

In fact, public service used to be a noble lifelong dedication deserving of respect because of the toil and sacrifice associated with the nature of it. A sentiment that yet remains in the military but used to be more widespread.

We are your sisters and brothers, not a sack of gold coins.

"...ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."

-John Fitzgerald Kennedy

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

That's how it is for most people and they do just fine if not much, much better.

In fact, public service used to be a noble lifelong dedication deserving of respect because of the toil and sacrifice associated with the nature of it. A sentiment that yet remains in the military but used to be more widespread.

We are your sisters and brothers, not a sack of gold coins.

"...ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."


-John Fitzgerald Kennedy

All very altruistic...but that don't buy the groceries. This is going nowhere, so I'll stop wasting both of our time. Happy Trails.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I wouldn't say this if I didn't think it was important.

It has taken a long time to come to the conclusions that I have and I fully expect them to continue to evolve but, these are determinations I am confident will hold true. Aside from the military, whatever anybody does in state service could be done better in a market economy by individuals making choices.

Cheers

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: tinner07
my other question is " how are you forced to pay dues" ?

By choice of keeping your job or losing it. If you don't pay dues, you are booted out of your job. It isn't rocket science.

Unless you live in a non right-to-work law, or "closed shop" state, that's an absolute lie and a revelation in how little you know about unions and/or federal law regulating them.

You might also want to note that it's against federal law for unions to use "dues" for political purposes as well.

So if your going to bitch about the money unions use for political purposes, you might want to spend some time educating yourself with respect to it's source.

And don't look to me for the answers, go research it yourself. Or better yet, go join a union and find out first hand, because I'm having way too much fun watching the ignorance play out.

I have worked for several companies who made it very clear upon being hired that I had 30 days to join the union in order to keep my job. They automatically took out union dues from my check.

After that, they also sent me democrat leaning propaganda on who to vote for in Washington State, and in New Mexico when I worked there as well.
Whether it was legal or not is beside the point that they made it all mandatory to join and pay dues to keep the job.. I had a choice though, I could either accept it, or leave with no job.

Speaking of ignorance, what makes you think unions play by the rules or the law?

a reply to: infolurker

Unions of any kind are a scam, are plagued by graft and corruption, and needlessly raise the price of EVERYthing, in order to line the pockets of a beauracrcy who do nothing to produce the product. They outlived their usefulness a 100 years ago.

Labor is a commodity. The laws of supply and demand apply....Except when it comes to labor unions.

I could go on and on....but nevermind. Why? Unions are here to stay, sucking on the teat of society, and in many cases, especially munincipal unions, sucking them dry.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: tinner07
my other question is " how are you forced to pay dues" ?

By choice of keeping your job or losing it. If you don't pay dues, you are booted out of your job. It isn't rocket science.

Unless you live in a non right-to-work law, or "closed shop" state, that's an absolute lie and a revelation in how little you know about unions and/or federal law regulating them.

You might also want to note that it's against federal law for unions to use "dues" for political purposes as well.

So if your going to bitch about the money unions use for political purposes, you might want to spend some time educating yourself with respect to it's source.

And don't look to me for the answers, go research it yourself. Or better yet, go join a union and find out first hand, because I'm having way too much fun watching the ignorance play out.

I have worked for several companies who made it very clear upon being hired that I had 30 days to join the union in order to keep my job. They automatically took out union dues from my check.

After that, they also sent me democrat leaning propaganda on who to vote for in Washington State, and in New Mexico when I worked there as well.
Whether it was legal or not is beside the point that they made it all mandatory to join and pay dues to keep the job.. I had a choice though, I could either accept it, or leave with no job.

Speaking of ignorance, what makes you think unions play by the rules or the law?

Both, Washington and New Mexico are "Closed Shop" states which explains your being forced to join the union and pay dues. That's the way those states have chosen to conduct their business.

That same union operating in a "Right-To-Work-Law" state cannot force anyone to join or pay dues.

So I guess you can "strike" that one up to "State's Rights."

It still doesn't change the fact that federal law prohibits using union "dues" for political purposes, regardless of where the union operates.

Anybody can send you political flyers and/or propaganda, that's pretty much legal everywhere and I find it hard to believe that anyone has the power to force you to vote for any particular candidate. That's why we do it one at a time and by secret ballot.

I worked through a union for 33 yrs.. I was an elected official in 4 separate Locals for over 20 yrs.. I was an organizing Charter Member of two of those Locals. I served for 10 yrs as one of 8 labor trustees appointed to manage & administer our benefit trust funds with over $500 million in assets.

I think I have a pretty good feel for how most unions work and whether or not they play by the rules and I can tell you straight up, one of the dumbest things a union can do is to violate federal campaign law with misappropriated union funds.

If it eases your mind, you should know that unless you signed a voluntary contribution form stipulating that funds collected are for political purposes, I seriously doubt that a penny of your money was ever used to support a Democrat.

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: infolurker

Unions of any kind are a scam, are plagued by graft and corruption, and needlessly raise the price of EVERYthing, in order to line the pockets of a beauracrcy who do nothing to produce the product. They outlived their usefulness a 100 years ago.

Labor is a commodity. The laws of supply and demand apply....Except when it comes to labor unions.

I could go on and on....but nevermind. Why? Unions are here to stay, sucking on the teat of society, and in many cases, especially munincipal unions, sucking them dry.

Labor is people.

People are NOT a commodity!

Unless of course, you consider yourself a slave owner/trader.

Labor unions were created for the explicit purpose of countering mentality like yours and they're needed more today than ever.

I can only assume your propensity to label them all as corrupt scams comes from watching too many movies of days gone by.

a reply to: Flatfish

1. You may know how to run a union racket, but you obviously know nothing about economics, or running a business. I own a business. I would know.

2. My experience comes from experience, not movies.

3. Unions are leeches. Do you know what a leech is? It's a parasite. All that money wasted, picking the pockets of the working stiffs, they should be ashamed of themselves. I've been disgusted seeing all that wasted capital, going to leeches who perform absolutely ZERO to the end-product. Leeches.

4. I shouldn't complain, I've made lots of money bidding against overpriced unions. That's the ones I win. The ones I lose, even after bidding 25% less, I didn't want anyway, considering the purchasing agents are crooks too, skimming their piece of the pie.

You ain't fooling this guy pal, I know the sleazy rules unions play by, I just ain't playin. And I sleep very good at night. My well paid employees and their families do as well.