This Chinese collapse is going to take awhile...

I noticed yesterdays 7%+ drop halted the markets early on for the rest of the day. Looks like they're trying to stave off a collapse, but it seems inevitable.

For tonite so far, at least they're at 2%+ in the green.

a reply to: onequestion

im saying we shouldn't have to depend on the chinese at all

the US economy should be determined by... US manufacturing and businesses. we rely too much on the chinese then cry when they screw things up. its our own fault. (by us i mean business owners that exploit chinese labor)

a reply to: vjr1113

We do need china. Can you imagine how much stuff would cost if we were isolationists?

a reply to: vjr1113

It's all about profit for the largest shareholders. They want to lower expenses and maximize profit.

There's a negative feedback loop going on. The more companies outsource, the poorer the average American becomes. When the people are poor, they tend to not buy as much stuff. In order to stimulate sales, they lower the prices of their goods by shipping even MORE manufacturing overseas.

Companies almost HAVE to use cheap overseas labor in order to make their products affordable to the average US consumer.

If everything was made in the USA, the workers would want fair wages and that means higher overall cost of production. Higher production costs cut into the profit margin and % of profit made on sales.

The wealthy wouldn't get as wealthy as fast, and not nearly by the same margin.

What we're seeing is the base of the pyramid being stolen to be melted down to guild the capstone at the very tippy top. Eventually to much of the base is going to be missing for the pyramid to remain standing. The people at the top can only squeeze the foundation of the world economy so much before no one can afford to buy anything and their companies begin to stop selling products.

That is, unless only the 1% become the people purchasing anything, and the 99% of us work for pennies a day across the entire world. Then we'd see a world like Elysium in which a handful of people are supported by billions of people living in abject 4th world style poverty.

I think what we are seeing is a leveling of standards of living right now. Americans standard of living is decreasing and people in other countries who were worse off than us are having their standards rise. There's sort of a world-wide equalization going on. This, I think, is in part due to the globalization of the world markets.

I think if its done right it'll be painful for a generation or two, but eventually as more automation and technology is developed, prices will drop and profit margins will remain high -- yet more people than ever will have access to cheap amenities that provide a basic standard of life the world over. The key -- is in keeping OPPORTUNITIES for ambitious people available.

If all the world's wealth becomes to concentrated and these people hole themselves up in their Dubai pleasure-domes, we all might find us out on the streets to fend for ourselves.

I honestly think that is what Dubai is...a strategically located "bug out zone" for the world elites. It would be pretty hard for hordes of homeless people to attack a place that sits on the coast of a desert.

Perhaps they realize the world economies may collapse...and that's what Dubai is being built for. To us, Dubai seems like opulent hotels ... but maybe those high rises and hotels are just "wealthy survival shelters"? ?

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: burdman30ott6

How can a free market function when rules/regulations are put in place that make it not free ?

How can a share market function as a legitimate economic instrument when its not taxed like the rest of the economy is ie, wages and salaries ?

Does not being taxed, cause the volatility that has disruptive effect on the economy?

Perhaps if it was taxed like the rest of the economy it might have a more stabilising effect on the share market and hence the economy?

a reply to: Azureblue

But the stock market was originally intended for the wealthy not average citizens

a reply to: onequestion

Every story I hear about this awesome company or that great company....

Turns out NONE of them are publicly traded companies. All the best companies to work for seem to be privately owned or partially employee owned.

I think we have way to many publicly traded companies these days, and to much of our collective wealth is tied up in these companies, which hijacks our governments in sooooo many ways. Our governments now have to get their hands into regulating these companies, and these companies then in turn are now "people" who can buy votes and influence legislation.

If a company is sufficiently big enough, the decisions it makes alone can force the government to take action -- or not take a certain action. Our entire economy is tied to these huge multi-national publicly traded companies, and our government is nothing but a servant to them.

IDK, it's late here and I just had this thought. Not only do huge publicly traded companies pour insane amounts of money into our government to influence it -- their mere presence forces us to adjust the way we run our government.

Just like how I like small batch anything...I like small communities with small governments, small companies with prideful employees producing quality products.

You can pay a lot more attention and take care of problems a lot easier when things are done on a smaller scale. This is both true for companies as it is for governments and their populations.

I don't even think Burdman could fault that opinion lol

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well I hope Harry Dent is wrong as he keeps saying the U.S. DOW market will slide to 6000.. He did predict the price of oil, China's market loss and he has not changed his predictions. His problem (like many others) is declaring the time frame for all this to unfold. The whole unfolding thing may be happening now for it was a couple of years ago when I heard him say watch China's bubble burst..
youtu.be...

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: vjr1113

We do need china. Can you imagine how much stuff would cost if we were isolationists?

Here is where I strongly disagree. We have only needed China once it was realized offshore labor could significantly increase personal portfolios. America has NEVER needed China, and still doesn't.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: vjr1113


I honestly think that is what Dubai is...a strategically located "bug out zone" for the world elites. It would be pretty hard for hordes of homeless people to attack a place that sits on the coast of a desert.

Perhaps they realize the world economies may collapse...and that's what Dubai is being built for. To us, Dubai seems like opulent hotels ... but maybe those high rises and hotels are just "wealthy survival shelters"? ?

I think the Chinese ghost cities will be their retirement in a SHTF scenario. Cities built for millions...with no inhabitants
www.forbes.com...

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue

But the stock market was originally intended for the wealthy not average citizens

That's why it wasn't taxed and why it remains untaxed. Levying a 10% sales tax on the sale of each share would not only make the rich pay tax because it would be unavoidable, but it wipe out the national debt in all nations where such a tax is imposed.

In Australia, not only would it wipe out the national debt but it would not be necessary to extend the Goods and Service Tax to items currently not taxed, as is being planned. This tax in only paid by wage and salary earners pay anyway.

a reply to: Vector99

Here is how important China is to the USA. And see if you can unplug these numbers from the US economy to see what will be left. Remember, this is only one company.
www.businessinsider.com...

China's exports to Walmart accounted for 11 percent of the growth of the total U.S. trade deficit with China between 2001 and 2006.

That is how much we buy here from China, in one company.

a reply to: smirkley

I know the scope of it all. I can see it every time I shop.

What I'm saying is China isn't needed. USA has all the resources and manpower it needs to be an isolationist, it has ever since we acquired Alaska as a resource guarantee. This was proven twice in world wars, US mainland CANNOT be touched. We still grow a large percent of the world's food. We have more oil than we can refine. We have natural resources foreign investors are digging hand and foot over now that we are selling them.

The only thing that would change is no more made in china, and people would have factory jobs again.

Globally? Yea that would be a big deal, but it's not undoable.

a reply to: CB328

If a system collapses and burns then it doesn't sound like a very good system.

Artificially "propping up" that system doesn't stop it from being broken it just keeps it working while still broken

It's akin to using a sponge to soak up the water from a leak instead of fixing the leak itself

a reply to: burdman30ott6

This type of manipulation virtually guarantees that the Shanghai is going to be a slow rolling car wreck for the next few months.

the requirements concerning the stocks held by the 5%ers is just another form of advanced 'Circuit Breakers' to control the real-time Market flow of buy-sell-trades...

the Chinese central planners want so bad to Ape the USA market manipulators/Plunge-protection-team...
I was hoping for a better system from them


but we get more of the same power paradigm which oozes through the whole Western, Rothschild-Illuminati-Banking Beast Structure

a reply to: MystikMushroom

You can't just take into consideration the cost of labor.

Do you realize the costs of regulation to manufacture something in the US? That isn't cheap either, so for a cheap plastic toy. It just isn't realistic between the cost of labor AND the cost of regulation to make it here. And that's before we get to question of taxation.

EPA ain't cheap. OSHA ain't cheap. DOT ain't cheap. NLRB ain't cheap (this is aside from worker pay issues). 21CFR (might be 11CFR) electronic security. The list goes on. They all have their respective rules and costs of compliance.

Add those into the cost of little green soldier toy.

a reply to: Vector99

I do understand and I dont necessarily disagree.

Consider another segment. Lithium. China all but owns that as a source.

Every cell phone, electric car, and most rechargeables depend on that.

Solar. China will own that market soon too.

It isnt just the cheap walmart chotskies they make.

Oh, circuit breakers removed, the dow, and my latest purchases are in the green as of this timestamp.

Wait a sec, I thought America was suppose to be the paper tiger?