Where Is The Proof That There Is "Nothing" After Death?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Fair enough, if it s about consciousness.

originally posted by: booyakasha
a reply to: MotherMayEye

yes as in, something exists after we die, rather than nothing. You wrote "what happens after death". i don't claim to know that.

You wrote that the list is "Evidence for life after death." There's no need to bicker about this as I believe you actually meant it to be a list that 'tended' to support life after death, based on your follow up comments.

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lin’d,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper’d pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well sav’d, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion;
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything

William Shakespeare

a reply to: Revolution9

Show me where JESUS CHRIST the Lord of Christians says we reincarnate.

John 10
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: SaddledMummy

because we do not really know.

How then is that enough, to give anyone the dismal outlook that
there is nothing after death?

SnF OP

Why is it dismal? Are you waiting for death to enjoy yourself or do something productive or meaningful? That's a sad way to conduct your life.

This life is all we have live it to the full. Do all you can now before you die or are too infirm to do anything.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

i have to answer again to this post.

You said you mean by 'nothing' 'consciousness.

you said that babys come from 'nothing' claiming the consciouness only comes after birth (which i agree upon).

then i went back to your opening post, where you say:

Have you ever seen or experienced "nothing"? No, there is only this "something" that we all experience. For all we know there is only this "something" and no such thing as "nothing".

There is no such thing as 'nothing'. But babys come from 'nothing' ?

Either i am just too tired or this makes no sense or is really contradictory.

Maybe you can elaborate about that?

a reply to: Revolution9

I do have an imagining that the whole of this earth might be earth version one like the analogue version. The Bible says that we are made in God's image. That could means we are made in his imagination. He visualised us and we existed;

"Let there be light" and there was light.

St John writes of his vision of a new Heaven and New Earth at the end of Revelation:

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

May be God will go digital. As a metaphor we are the analogue signal and the new creation might be a digital signal. Both are a projection of God's will and what He imagines into existence. This is kind of a metaphor; not to be confused as literal.

Also, if we get to live twice, once temporarily and the 2nd time eternally then perhaps that is reincarnation of a kind. I say two lives if Jesus is right, NOT many lives, at least according to traditional and official Hebrew and Christian Scripture.

I don't know why I bother putting all this energy into writing here. I either get accused of being a liar or ignored. People are incredibly rude and savage these days. I tell you the reason I bother. It helps ME. Just good writing practise I guess. I long ago gave up any notion of finding any particularly well mannered or friendly people here or anywhere.

Humans sure are brutal. No wonder they kill each other and don't care about their fellow. No wonder it is a bloodbath existence of war and greed. People are not very nice.

a reply to: Revolution9

Actually Judaism has a belief in "transmigration of the soul"

And so did Jesus in my humble opinion... the church removed almost all traces of said belief because it removes the need for them... because they hold the keys to the kingdom

Heaven forbid we have more then one chance at life

IF there is only one chance and they hold the keys to success... YOU best Listen to them and only them

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Revolution9

Actually Judaism has a belief in "transmigration of the soul"

And so did Jesus in my humble opinion... the church removed almost all traces of said belief because it removes the need for them... because they hold the keys to the kingdom

Heaven forbid we have more then one chance at life

IF there is only one chance and they hold the keys to success... YOU best Listen to them and only them

No Judaism does not. Like I said some (did you read?) wayward gnostic Rabbis think that. Mainstream Judaism never did believe this. It is NOWHERE to be found in the Bible. Show me where it is in the Torah. It is not there. I have read the whole Bible Twice and much of it many times. I KNOW it is not there.

Show me where Jesus said that souls transmigrated. You can not show me anywhere in the NT where He said that. You may show me gnostic texts that say it, but it is nowhere in the Bible.

Yes, your opinion can be anything. No matter how hard you try you can't make it appear in the Bible can you. That is what I am talking about here. Don't you get it?

You can have all the opinions you like. You can quote gnostic text after gnostic text, you can quote Kabalah Rabbis from the Kabalah web site, but it still will not make this come true for you. Jesus Christ never said it. It is nowhere, neither in the OT or the NT.

I call your bluff. Show me now where it is in the Bible...

a reply to: Revolution9

Try scrolling up brother....

This might help you too

www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

a reply to: Akragon

"Bibliography:Azariah da Fano, Gilgule Neshamot, passim;
Manasseh ben Israel, Nishmat Ḥayyim, part iii., ch. xiv.; part iv., ch. xx.;
Luria, Sefer ha-Gilgulim, passim;
Shebaḥe ha-Ari, passim;
Israel Saruk, Shibḥe Ḥayyim Wiṭal, passim;
Abraham Shalom Ḥai, Sefer Nifla'im Ma'aseka, p. 18;
Ginsburg, The Kabbalah, p. 42;
Karppe, Etude sur l'Origine du Zohar, pp. 320 et seq., Paris, 1902;
P. Rudermann, Uebersicht über die Idee der Seelenwanderung, Warsaw, 1878;
S. Rubin, Gilgul Neshamot, Cracow, 1898;
Alexander W. M. Menz, Demonic Possession in the New Testament, Edinburgh, 1902;
Güdemann, Gesch. i. 202, 205, 216."

That is the bibliography to the article you linked to.

WHERE IS THERE ANYTHING FROM TRADITIONAL TORAH JUDAISM? Where is there anything from any of the Bible in this bibliography? Nothing, zilch and zero!

Kabalah is not traditional Judaism. It is gnostic Judaism.

I SAID that did I not?

Why are you not listening to what I am actually writing here?

I challenge you yet again. Where in the Bible (IN THE BIBLE, REPEAT...IN THE BIBLE) is there any mention of transmigration of souls.

As I said yes you can find a few wayward Rabbis that believe it, but Jesus nor any of the Prophets said anything about it. Never, ever.

Your link did help me. It helped me make my point that you still can not come up with a Bible quote that says anything about transmigration, CERTAINLY NOT FROM JESUS in the gospels or ANY of the NT.

There might be a thousand gnostic texts about it. Still there is zilch than can be quoted from the Bible.

I can find you quotes from Jesus and the prophets about death. I am going to do that right now.

a reply to: Revolution9

I already quoted a passage that can only mean we have the ability to return...

Though that probably wasn't the best link...

this is a little better...

www.jewfaq.org...

a reply to: Revolution9

www.bibleinfo.com...

The Bible compares death to sleep more than fifty times. After death we are asleep, we are unconscious; we are not aware of the passing of time or of what is going on around us. That is what death is like as well. The Bible says, “for the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing… their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished” (Ecclesiastes 9:5,

Peter on the Day of Pentecost said the same of King David. “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day…For David did not ascend into the heavens…(Acts 2:29, 34).

Bible says, “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7, KJV). Other Bible translations say, “. . . and man became a living being” (NKJV; NIV). God did not put a soul into man. He formed the body from the dust of the ground, and then He breathed His life-giving spirit into the lifeless body—and the result was a soul, or a living being. When a person dies, the reverse takes place. The breath of life departs from the body, and the soul no longer exists. That’s what the Bible says. “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7, NIV). At the resurrection, God reunites the body and His life-giving spirit—and the person lives again.

I could give many examples, but it will bore you if I do.

SEE, I am not false. I am as false as Peter and that is not false at all. That is why I am upset because you dare to call me false, yet I can come up with these examples from the Bible and you who call me false can NOT come up with even ONE slight allusion to transmigration, not by ANY stretch of the imagination ANYWHERE in the Bible.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Revolution9

I already quoted a passage that can only mean we have the ability to return...

Though that probably wasn't the best link...

this is a little better...

www.jewfaq.org...

You helped me again with your link to show that I am not speaking falsely;

From your link,

Belief in the eventual resurrection of the dead is a fundamental belief of traditional Judaism. It was a belief that distinguished the Pharisees (intellectual ancestors of Rabbinical Judaism) from the Sadducees.

DID I NOT SAY THIS in my post? Go check and you will see CLEARLY I did.

There are some mystical schools of thought that believe resurrection is not a one-time event, but is an ongoing process. The souls of the righteous are reborn in to continue the ongoing process of tikkun olam, mending of the world. Some sources indicate that reincarnation is a routine process, while others indicate that it only occurs in unusual circumstances, where the soul left unfinished business behind. Belief in reincarnation is also one way to explain the traditional Jewish belief that every Jewish soul in history was present at Sinai and agreed to the covenant with G-d. (Another explanation: that the soul exists before the body, and these unborn souls were present in some form at Sinai). Belief in reincarnation is commonly held by many Chasidic sects, as well as some other mystically-inclined Jews.

As YOUR source say it is Chasidic. I told you that it was. It is not traditional Judaism. Did I not tell you that.

In your new link there is STILL no quote from Torah or New Testament relating to transmigration.

I told you that you would not be able to find a source. You still can not.

Will you accept this? Remember others are seeing all this now and one of us is going to look very silly if this carries on and I don't think it will be me.

Have your transmigration, but you are not being truthful if you say ANY mention of it can be found in the traditional OT or NT. You are being intellectually dishonest and misleading others if you say something is there and it is not. It can be found in gnostic Judaism and gnostic Christianity. I am half Jewish. I told you I have read a lot about this, a huge amount in fact. I have stayed in Israel before. I know my Scripture very well, I played with Kabalah for a time and that is how I know that it is Chasidic belief and not mainstream Judaism. Like I said, a few wayward Rabbis.

a reply to: svetlana84

I mean "nothing" (quotation marks) as in the common understanding of it. There was "nothing" before birth and there is "nothing" after death from the point of view of someone who does not believe in an afterlife, though really that "nothing" we come from and return to is actually "something".

I am using the word "nothing" within two contexts. Me saying a baby comes from "nothing" is only to illustrate my point to those who do not believe in the afterlife.

There is no such thing as "nothing" by definition, so how can someone say there is "nothing" after death?

a reply to: yorkshirelad

This life is all we have live it to the full. Do all you can now before you die or are too infirm to do anything.

I don't have to believe this is all we have to live as tho it is.
All that takes is balls.
If you think I'm not, it's only because you don't know Randy.

And if you aren't hoping for more? Then maybe you're the one who
needs to do more. And that's why I still think it's a dismal outlook.

a reply to: Revolution9

• Judaism believes in an afterlife but has little dogma about it
• The Jewish afterlife is called Olam Ha-Ba (The World to Come)
• Resurrection and reincarnation are within the range of traditional Jewish belief
• Temporary (but not eternal) punishment after death is within traditional belief

Top right corner of the page... or is it just disqualified because its Chasidic?

Have your transmigration, but you are false if you say ANY mention of it can be found in the traditional OT or NT

No mention of the passage I keep pointing to eh?