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Can't a "Progressive" also be a "Patriot"?

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posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

I have asked this before, but anywhoo...so there were no patriots before there was a constitution?




posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant


However, I think the word "patriot" has been hijacked. There's nothing "patriotic" about preparing to wage war with the country you claim to love. And there's nothing "patriotic" about constantly threatening to secede from the country you supposedly love when you don't get your way. Being "patriotic" also doesn't mean being blindly obedient to your government, like the "patriots" claim progressives should do when we protest, boycott, and oppose things. Otherwise, all of these right wing "patriots" would shut up & get in line when the government makes any decision lol.

So to answer your question, yes. It's very possible.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I agree with your judgment of the proposed question, fwiw.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: macman


The contorting of what a progressive is what the issue is.

Yes, that is precisely what the "issue is."



If you mean Libertarian, then yes.

No, I don't mean "Libertarian".


If you mean the current Progressives? No.


Please explain your answer.


+7 more 
posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs




Progress is a term that means 'move forward.'

Can you explain to me how stagnating in the ideas of a long-gone century is human progress?


We have no choice but to move forward. There is no going back to the past.

In the eyes of conservatism (according to Edmund Burke), man inherits a society, a country, a citizenship, and it is his duty to pass it on to his children in the same or a better condition than he received it. The conservative progresses by incremental reform. The progressive chooses dramatic reform or revolution to attain abstract goals (equality, social justice), with little care for the means to do it, and with little thought to the end result.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: LesMisanthrope


Only progressives consider what they are doing "progress".

Again, forgive me for not comprehending......

Progress is a term that means 'move forward.'

Can you explain to me how stagnating in the ideas of a long-gone century is human progress?



"Stagnating in the views of the last century" id have to disagree with. Also if you would force people along into the view you see as progress, I would FIRMLY disagree.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: olbe66
a reply to: Bluntone22

I have asked this before, but anywhoo...so there were no patriots before there was a constitution?

How can you be loyal to a country before you have a county?



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Abysha




I am a patriot but hesitate to use the word since it has become an American code word for anti-anything-other-than-white-Christian-conservatives. I know that's not what it means nor do all who use it think this way but it has, like it or not, become a cliche colloquialism unique to our culture.


We can tell how patriotic you are in how you consider and treat a vast section of the population.


My stated consideration for a "vast section of the population" is based on how a vast section of our population describes itself. I stated observations of the branding already put in place by those very people. I did not make them up. When an American says they are a "patriot", rarely does a civil rights activist come to mind for most other Americans. This is the result of political branding just like the weird marriage between conservatism and Christianity.


And how I treat them? You have no idea how I treat others.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No problem.


I've never understood how it's supposedly not "patriotic" for progressives to want our country to treat all of its citizens fairly, and for all of our citizens to have high quality health care, clean air & water, and a strong safety net. We're literally trying to improve the standard of living for everyone in the country. We start with people who are the poorest because those citizens need the most help.

But somehow, us wanting Americans to not suffer from poverty, tainted foods, and a polluting energy supply is "unpatriotic". SMH



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: breakingbs

I didn't say "the last century". I said "a long-gone century" - that being the 18th century. That century is 300 years ago.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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I love this democratic republic, but I'm sick of Republicans and Democrats.

I espouse patriotism, but I despise the Patriot Act.

I admire liberal thinkers of the 18th century, but rarely do I agree with people today who consider themselves Liberals.

There is no doubt in my mind that you truly want to support progress, Buzzy. Take care not to confuse the social movement for the real thing.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: Abysha




When an American says they are a "patriot", rarely does a civil rights activist come to mind for most other Americans.


And you know what goes on in the minds of "most other Americans". It's quite telling.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


I have to type fast, sorry. But thats in essence what I still meant.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: breakingbs


Yep.


Thank you.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Absolutely it's possible. Why wouldn't it be?

If knee jerk folks want to claim otherwise, you can safely ignore their opinions, as they are hopelessly mistaken.

There is no one true way. Politics is about compromise, not "my way, or the highway". That sounds good in campaign commercials, but in reality leads no where we want to go.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant
Your enlightenment seems to be in a rut. I will get you going again:

Patriotism is not a synonym for the word charity.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: BuzzyWigs




Progress is a term that means 'move forward.'

Can you explain to me how stagnating in the ideas of a long-gone century is human progress?


We have no choice but to move forward. There is no going back to the past.

In the eyes of conservatism (according to Edmund Burke), man inherits a society, a country, a citizenship, and it is his duty to pass it on to his children in the same or a better condition than he received it. The conservative progresses by incremental reform. The progressive chooses dramatic reform or revolution to attain abstract goals (equality, social justice), with little care for the means to do it, and with little thought to the end result.


People have different political stances.....get over it. Not everyone will agree with your way of doing things.

Honestly Im pretty conservative and don’t subscribe to many progressive ideas. Do I think those people wrong? Yes. Do I think them naive? yes.

But they have a RIGHT in a FREE society to there political views and no one except for a party drone is going to have the same political views on everything.

Does it make the people I political disagree with les British (or in your case American)? No.


Remember your constitution is made up of AMENDMENTS, its meant to be changed over time. Luckly you need 3/4 of Congress to change so bad ideas and changes normaly dont get through.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: OpenMindedRealist



There is no doubt in my mind that you truly want to support progress, Buzzy. Take care not to confuse the social movement for the real thing.

That's what I'm doing, by posting this thread.....

thanks for your contribution.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

But when you consider the well-being of everyone, it is well-being in your opinion. It also does not take into account the very real logistics and impracticalities of achieving your goals as was mentioned in the post you are replying to.

For example, you have mentioned you want to abolish the teaching of all faiths to children until they are at least 10. You say it is for their own good, but your idea would require a great deal of force to implement and violate the base legal document of the nation, not to mention the impracticalities of forcing parents to figure out how to parent in a completely secular way when they, themselves, may not be secular people living a secular life. Those are just some of the problems with your notion.

So, when you consider the functional makeup of this country both in people, culture and legal foundation, is your notion one of a patriot who loves her country? Or someone who loves the idea of what you wish it was?



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: OpenMindedRealist




Your enlightenment seems to be in a rut. I will get you going again:

Patriotism is not a synonym for the word charity.


Not even charity, because that would actually mean giving personal wealth to the less fortunate, but governmentally forced charity, or in other words, theft of wealth and the redistribution of it according to bureaucratic choices. It's actually the death of charity.
edit on 5-1-2016 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok




People have different political stances.....get over it. Not everyone will agree with your way of doing things.

Honestly Im pretty conservative and don’t subscribe to many progressive ideas. Do I think those people wrong? Yes. Do I think them naive? yes.

But they have a RIGHT in a FREE society to there political views and no one except for a party drone is going to have the same political views on everything.

Does it make the people I political disagree with les British (or in your case American)? No.


Remember your constitution is made up of AMENDMENTS, its meant to be changed over time. Luckly you need 3/4 of Congress to change so bad ideas and changes normaly dont get through.


Your feigned moral superiority is suspect. Not once did I say someone couldn't hold opposing views. Get over it.




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