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When is armed resistance to the government acceptable?

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posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Revolution9

Perhaps a few billion individual revolutions are required.

^ THIS, my friend ^ And your full post is worth at least another read:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

With the average American pre-conditioned into political ignorance, to the
point he doesn't even know his rights, how can he fight for them? Maybe the
matrix is so well entrenched by now that even a full clampdown will be as
unnoticed by the population as much as the media.

I for one am old enough to remember what it was like to grow up in at least
the cultivated illusion of a free country. But the slower that water in the pot
comes up to a boil; the more frogs will just stay and baste each other with
incredulity of there even being a problem, much less respond to a crisis.

My grandfather would have likely had half a dozen sharpened axes by now;
of my neighbors presently maybe 5% are ready to rock. I remain neutral for now...
but I remember Larry McDonald's cartridge box could have used a paint job
over 30 years ago. "..jury box, soap box, ballot box"... got it Congressman.




posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove
Not trying to derail your thread or take anything away from it, but many of the things you bring to light, I had considered several months ago, and it also promoted me to post about some things that were lying heavily on my chest. My mind went slightly in a different direction though.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think we all know that our world is changing, and for many of us, the future that seems eminent, is disturbing to consider.

Many feel they are between a rock and a hard place. They don't know what to do, unfortunately, too many are waiting for the Calvary to show up, or aliens.

There is no rescue coming. I think we all know that, we just don't know what is coming, so are too afraid to pick a door.

Not realizing that you have a better chance at survival when picking your own battle, than allowing someone to chose one for you.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: derfreebie

Yes, we are thinking on the same wave length. Big respect to you Derfreebie.

What can I say? You speak the humble truth of our predicament.

edit on 5-1-2016 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The Progs and their social revolution are failing because they picked the wrong enemies,Christianity and guns.
Top that sundae with Obama and the plane seems to be about to crash.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Maxatoria
A lot of the founding fathers didn't want to break away from the crown but eventually it became impossible to stay under it and thus there was a major war and i can see a point in the US where enough people get annoyed and start something lets say like a few thousand people marching peacefully with rifles on their backs to the hill and of course the TV will love it and if anything happens to them it'll be an outrage which will whip up more support and thus things will change.

I'm sure I read somewhere that some of the founding fathers expected the system to be in a 20 year loop where revolution would allow them to start again just keeping the best bits.

And there is the cycle of human nature, as after the revolution
in a sufficient amount of time the revolutionaries become the
status quo-- or worse. We've gone too long between purges a-
cross the pond, and maybe is the reason we seem so hyper-
colonial right now with the majority of us not even recognizing it.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The Progs and their social revolution are failing because they picked the wrong enemies,Christianity and guns.
Top that sundae with Obama and the plane seems to be about to crash.


All of the news articles are about how angry people are now as if this is any revelation to those of out here in the actual country. To the news, they seem astonished ...



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

The Bundy's are nothing as far as a patriot movement and in this case,they are trying to pick up a fight at their own expense.
If the original individual being backed asks you to go ,you go.
But the issue of the land being illegally grabbed is a severe problem.
Neither situation is a national crisis to America.
If all at once a state to state violent enforcement issue should occur after the first day it would cause a regional response to the situation that would more indicate where and who the players are.
If it happens in one of the Democratic urban hell zones I doubt the patriots would show up.
I wonder how they intend to clean them up WITHOUT combat sweeps through hostile zones.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The Progs and their social revolution are failing because they picked the wrong enemies,Christianity and guns.
Top that sundae with Obama and the plane seems to be about to crash.


Stay unbuckled, Trooper-- we need about 5000 more like you per
square mile. With the Deblammer trying again to launch another
firearms stock split, I'd rather try to tuck and roll from going in
hard than eat fuselage. Wait, a 140 knot banana.. never mind.
We're tattooed



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 03:01 PM
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When the innocent American is harassed by the government, that is the time for some revolting to take place. Terrorism is according to Webster : the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal. Now this can be applied to the Black Live Matter movement. But I cannot see the definition applying to the peaceful protest of a munch of militiamen in Utah. It is our duty to stand up for individual rights in America. If we look at today's news there is a revolt brewing amongst many Americans who have had enough of the politicians in DC. It seems that Donald Trump is leading this revolution against the political class in America. I believe he will be the POTUS in a little less than a year from now.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: Ceeker63
When the innocent American is harassed by the government, that is the time for some revolting to take place. Terrorism is according to Webster : the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal. Now this can be applied to the Black Live Matter movement. But I cannot see the definition applying to the peaceful protest of a munch of militiamen in Utah. It is our duty to stand up for individual rights in America. If we look at today's news there is a revolt brewing amongst many Americans who have had enough of the politicians in DC. It seems that Donald Trump is leading this revolution against the political class in America. I believe he will be the POTUS in a little less than a year from now.


Donald may win it but i suspect Hillary will have him knocked off soon after.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
Now I'm not saying we should take up arms yet, but I want to know when it moves from being automatically considered to be terrorism to take up arms to actually full filling the rights and duty set forth by our forefathers to protect the citizenry from a government that's no longer for the people.

This seems to be and important line to define. When is it terrorism, and when is it our duty to each other in defense of house and country?

There comes a time where protesting, lawsuits, and other less violent means become laughable to a truly entrenched political force, and are about as effective as spinning in circles screaming "I'm a fairy lalalala!!!!"

When is revolution not only acceptable but the duty of every citizen in defense of the foundations the country was built upon? At what point do those in power cross the line, and at what point does the futility of peaceful means of resistance require taking up arms?

Are you of the belief armed resistance and revolution is never acceptable? Where do you draw the line?


Empathy reveals the answer I think. When I look at the state of things in the US, I see the line being crossed thousands of times a day, every day, and it has been this way for years, decades, no.. since before I was born, since before any of us were born.

The line is crossed so frequently and in so many manners, from all angles, that we can no longer discern it.

It is just becoming more and more frequent, intense, blatant, and egregious, to the point that we can no longer ignore it, can no longer turn a blind eye, a deaf ear, nor a silent mouth.

When was it first crossed in such a manner that required armed revolt? Well that happened so long ago that nobody living experienced it, and most Americans know so little about American history that the truth of it is basically expunged from the memory of the people.

I think the "line" was first crossed when the feds decided to consolidate their power and wage war against the south in the so called civil war. It was never about slavery (that was propaganda to create a publicly acceptable reason for war), it was about power and control.

The south was essentially the 'rebels' in the face of the northern/federal tyranny. They were forced to take up arms and defend themselves and their liberties, and they lost.

Look at what has happened since. We have all been made slaves, with the federal government not merely deeming itself the master, but treating the people as slaves, and welding its power in blatantly unlawful ways, in acts of unconventional warfare against the people of America.

Since then we have had many generations of where our children have been more and more indoctrinated by the government run public schools. Each generation becoming more and more detached from reality, more and more aligned with the interests of the feds rather than their own and their families interests (to their own unrealized detriment).

To the extent that last year the news was full of university students advocating the deliberate destruction of the english language (PC speak, new speak, all that jazz). Well if the language is compromised by enforced political correction, eventually children being 'educated' unto such a system will not even be able to conceive of the things, ideas, and concepts that the federal government does not want them to be thinking about.

Much like how people in North Korea cannot conceive of individual liberty, of the ability to make decisions for one's self. As a result they live in extreme poverty, not just physically in terms of belongings and essential needs, but a poverty of the mind.

I mean If you go now and ask your typical university student in California: "What does liberty mean?" I bet they will have trouble answering. Even though they generally live a life of many liberties, the process of eliminating the concept (or rather avoiding its introduction and nature) from the peoples consciousness started at an early age for them, the intention of the indoctrinators is to eventually eliminate the concept (among many others like right of self defense, right to life, etc.).

The feds are essentially doing to the American people what they did to the native American Indians. What they did to the Indians was basically a practice run on how to dis-empower a people, make them dependent on their oppressor, and slowly and meticulously obliterate them. Now the feds are using what they learned on the rest of us, and in the process every single component of government has been corrupted beyond belief, to the extent that justice can no longer be found anywhere in the justice system, it has been turned into the opposite of its original purpose, to where the legislative branches do not represent the peoples interests, and the executive branch has been transformed into a circus of tyranny and absurdity.

Most people think that psychopaths end up in prison. That is only true for the ones that are failures, the ones that lack the intelligence to utilize their 'special' abilities in ways that get them what they want without having to face justice.

The reality is that psychopaths make up something like 6% of the population. The intelligent ones are very good at climbing the ranks of corporations and government. The proportion of psychopaths in positions of power is not the same as their ratio of the population, I'm afraid it is more like at least 50% these days.

This happens because so few people know how to recognize them, so few people can even resist their manipulations, so few people know just how different psychopaths are compared to regular humans. They are in a very real sense, a different species of human. One that predates on regular humans, not for food in the physical sense, but food in the spiritual sense.

Anyways, went off on a bit of a tangent there, so getting back to the topic at hand.

You asked: "but I want to know when it moves from being automatically considered to be terrorism to take up arms to actually full filling the rights and duty set forth by our forefathers to protect the citizenry from a government that's no longer for the people."

The definition of the word terrorism is:

"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. "

I find it interesting that this definition fits exactly what the federal government does to the American people on a daily basis across the nation.

I mean monopoly of power and use of that power is what government is. They use threats of violence/punishment on the people in regards to getting them to obey their arbitirary rules/policies/mandates, and they use literal violence on the people who do not obey, heck they use literal violence on people whether they obey or not, they use it indiscriminately on people in the case of false flag events, scientific/eugenics experiments, and during 'official' warfare against non-combatants as was done to Japan.

All primarily for pushing their current agendas (political purpose).

ran out of space continuing in next post...



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:43 PM
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Of course it would help to justify armed revolution if the people involved had a good, solid alternative governmental plan in mind before they start shooting and decapitating anyone. The problem with most revolutions is that nobody has a good plan past the initial uprising, so the opportunistic totalitarians quickly move into the void and make things just as bad or even worse than they were before.

So:
1) WORK OUT AN ALTERNATIVE FIRST
2) REVOLT
edit on 5-1-2016 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:51 PM
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So long as you have the vote, never.

If you don't like the guys in power, vote for the other guys. Get together with your friends, start your own party, campaign, knock on doors. Push for electoral reform.


If you pick up a gun just because you personally don't happen to agree with the democratically elected leaders? Then I've got news for you, you're a terrorist.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Painterz

Prove to me the vote isn't a sham and then we can talk. All evidence points to our vote being a well implemented illusion at this point. So sick of vote believers deluded that everything can be fixed by voting.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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continued:

Now I assume this topic was initiated because of the Bundy/Hammond/Oregon situation happening now. So where your saying "automatically considered terrorists" keep in mind that the only people that are saying that are the lamestream media which is extreme left politically (acts as the feds primary propaganda delivery method), as well as a bunch of mindless ones on twitter/facebook (who cares what they say). In altenative media (which tries to be objective) I have not seen anybody call the militia's actions as terroristic. In fact they seem to be the only ones following the law, and their stated objective is for the law to be followed!!! (in the case of the Hammonds and the BLM (bureau of land management))

Yet we see the lamestream media (cnn, msnbc, the old dinosaur networks), and these social media garbage networks not only refusing to share the why behind the militia's actions, but trying to demonize them, slander them, and misrepresent their actions. Even going so far as to demand their murders by government forces! (threat of violence for political purpose).

The fact of the matter is that this group occupying this federal building on public land is doing so because all other options have been exhausted. They have the right to assembly, and the right to protest, and the right to defend themselves! As for any laws/rules being broken by it being a federal building Im not sure of the specifics (but seems likely there exists some considering how many thousands and thousands of laws/rules/ etc the feds create every year to control the populace and criminalize every single person. I mean if your alive and breathing you prolly break multiple of their "laws" on a daily basis without realizing it.)

So they are doing this to bring awareness to the complete lawlessness of the criminal organization known as the BLM (bureau of land management), as well as the incredible two and half decades worth of persecution, harassment, torment, molestation, bullying, and financial warfare on the Hammond family by these federal government interlopers from the BLM and related unconstitutional agencies of oppression. Their entirely unlawful imprisonment based on false pretenses for a pseudo crime that has gotten them labeled as terrorist arsonists, and not only that but they are being forced to endure cruel and unusual punishment (minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years) which is unconstitutional (the first judge actually obeyed the constitution in that respect by explicitly declaring the minimum sentence was unlawful so gave them what he deemed a more fair sentence (1 year) ) But the BLM.. in their incredibly malicious vindictiveness got an appeal through the incredibly corrupt 9th district court of appeals and got them to force the 5 year sentence on these poor people who had already served their time.

Yes the Hammond family has stated publicly that they do not want the militias help. But the fact is is that this family's will may be broken, and has accepted their undeserved fate because they do not know how to fight it and likely no longer have the will (and resources) to do so. They said they just want it to be over.. yet they thought it was over years ago as well, the fact of the matter is that it will never be over until the BLM has taken every bit of their private property so that the BLM can sell out the mineral rights to the highest foreign bidder. (enriching itself at everyone else's expense)

There was mention that they were under threat of being put into a "less desirable" prison if the Hammonds associated with the Bundys and the Militia (again threats made for political purpose), being in the position that they are in, they did not have much a choice but to obey the demands of their oppressors and distance themselves from the protesters.

After all the elder Hammond is not likely to see the light of day again.. considering his age and the absurd mandatory sentencing it is likely a life sentence for him.

Saying that I think that the Bundys and Militia totally comprehend this, for they have experienced the same type of oppression, they know the tactics. They know that ultimately what they are fighting for is not merely the Hammond's freedom and liberty, they are fighting for freedom and liberty for the American people. So their protest stands, their position justified. It is justice they seek, and so long as the BLM is allowed to continue in its lawlessness of stealing peoples property, destroying lively-hoods, and preventing the American people from using our land productively, there will be a reason to protest, a reason to fight back against the insanity.

"and at what point does the futility of peaceful means of resistance require taking up arms?"

I think this protest will be a good test. It is by all accounts a desperate attempt of peaceful protest against tyranny. How the government responds to it will indicate if they are still open to needed change through non-violent means such as this, or if the feds decide to waco that up it will indicate that the federal government cannot be reasoned with, that it cannot be changed through non-violent means, that the only language the federal government comprehends is violence...

As always the key thing will be optics/perception, we are blessed that there is so much alternative media on this, even so the risk of infiltration by an agent who then acts as the inciter (by shooting first towards the surrounding feds) is unfortunately very high, and why this whole situation makes alot of people nervous (at least those who are aware of the feds evil methodologies). There is also the very high possibility that they will initiate other false flag events that they have in the works and create patsies that fit their narrative against this group of protesters so that they can say "see we told ya so!". Bottom line is that the so called mainstream media is pure propaganda and cannot be trusted in the slightest, and the words of officials such as the idiot sheriff, the fbi, and whatever government agent/official they have read from their script cannot be trusted!

False flags in this country have become a regular occurrence like clockwork. Any time they have trouble pushing their agenda they whip up a false flag (like sandy hook), but they are also very opportunistic, and upending this protest to their own ends is a very real possibility of which they seem to already be doing based on how they are framing them with their narratives.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: olaru12

Only true if the citizens in the military and police force choose the corrupt government over their legal right to fight the corrupt government should the time come. It's arguable that it is the police and military's duty to support the citizenry if they are in the right. In fact I'd say the oath to defend the constitution from threats both foreign and domestic demands the military join a legitimate revolution.

Is a matter of whether military citizens are capable and willing to support the populace if in the right, or if TPBTis too entrenched in their organizations and the citizens that make up the military and police force too indoctrinated to join the citizens cause.



The military and the cops will support the entity that write their pay checks.

How do you determine a legitimate revolution. Many who claim to advocate a revolution really want a civil war for their control over the people; just trading masters....

Insurrections take leaders.....do you see any?

The Bundys?



I know that a lot of folks like to think that the military would blindly follow its' leaders. However, from my experience (retired military), my brothers and sisters in uniform would be sorely tested and with a 90% certainty ally themselves with the populace if/when the government OVERTLY turns against it's own people. The first example that comes to mind is if we were turned against the common man in an overall martial law WITHOUT LOGICAL CAUSE. I emphasize the previous because there are situations where government control needs to be exercised IMHO like during major catastrophes like looting during extended power outages.

Just my .02



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Technomancer01

I think people forget that the populace includes the kids, wives, husbands, mom's, dad's, friends, and more that matters to the citizens in the military. It's as you say, no where near as simple as who signs their paycheck.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: derfreebie

Long as the COPS get out of the way no problem.
Public might become a bit skiddish watching us work... Like machines when we actually do so ,not much talking.



posted on Jan, 5 2016 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I 'm not really a huge fan of half assed mobilizations for a protest myself ,it's a little too dangerous.
All it would take is ONE IDIOT...or one provacateur.



posted on Jan, 6 2016 @ 12:03 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Great thread Puppy, I'm very glad you made this thread. Well written and carefully put, I enjoyed the OP


Getting into the politics and social aspects of this viewed "feud" between government and the citizens/people of the nations.. . is useless.

The human mind will bend and bend to squeeze through anything, thats politics for ya.
When it comes to hostile governments, arming their police forces with military like equipment, bending laws and taxes to squeeze every drop of energy from the people, and dividing then opposing us...... that's when common sense and human nature kick in, and enough is enough.

When we look into nature, we see predators and prey. One always seeking for dominance and survival of the fittest, the other trying to live peacefully with the rest of nature, doing what they need to survive.

When we look into politics we see liars, alligator tears, and creeps trying to shape our lives in the worst way imaginable.

Now we have talks of WW3 and more incompetent presidents coming in the near future.. things don't look good.

WE ARE TRYING TO LIVE PEACEFULLY WITH EACHOTHER,NATURE, AND THEY ARE PREYING ON US.

ahem.

Yes its appropriate to raise arms as a collective people who work hard to MAKE these countries. We the people carry THEM or the infamous.. "THEY" on our backs, each and every week/weak, throughout the calendar, year in and year out.
Obama has not fixed anything in America, matter of fact, America seems worse now then 10-20 years ago. So its obvious your President's interests are not YOURS the people, OR America, they are that of ME lol


They will not stop us from rising if they have gone to far, the numbers and math is all there to support that concept. They will do their worst damage and divide nations, but you know that saying..

"The meek shall inherit the Earth"

They will self-destruct or be taken down, but no matter what, if they choose to divide and oppose us the PEOPLE, we will win because we have each other, when it comes down to it, the governments have no one.

Empires, kings, queens, presidents, popes.. they have all come and gone.

The people are Forever.



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