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Anti-Government Extremist Groups Are A Uniquely American Problem

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posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Interestingly many, if not most of those groups that the SPLC claims are extremists now were formed in the 1980s, or early 1990s... Couldn't it be that it is democrats who keep changing the labels of these groups? Of course, there have been a few that have been formed recently, but just because a Republican was President didn't make those groups that existed in the 1980s and 1990s disappear...

This is simply one of the many lies that the SPLC uses to try to urge people to believe their BS.


I think you really have no idea what you're talking about.
The 80s and 90s?

The Millennials.......the ones who were born in the 80s and 90s.....right????
The children of The Boomers?? - right??

Yeah, we are their parents. In the 80s, we were in our 20s..............in our 30s (in the 90s) we had kids.....and we are still voting, and talking to our now-20-something kids......


don't be disingenuous.




posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

I think you really have no idea what you're talking about.
The 80s and 90s?

The Millennials.......the ones who were born in the 80s and 90s.....right????
The children of The Boomers?? - right??

Yeah, we are their parents. In the 80s, we were in our 20s..............in our 30s (in the 90s) we had kids.....and we are still voting, and talking to our now-20-something kids......

don't be disingenuous.


Excuse me, but do you even know what in the world you are talking about? Because i certainly have no idea.

I was talking about groups the SPLC (Southern Poverty Law Center) claims are extremists and were actually formed in the 80s and 90s, and they aren't new...

Many of these groups existed for a long time, but the SPLC labeled them recently as "hate groups, and extremists". It is why for the most part you see an increase in these groups labeled by the SPLC as "extremist and hate groups. Because the SPLC labeled them as such.

The graph that the op gave is disingenuous because the "apparent increase" is in large part because of the recent labels the SPLC has engaged in lately on groups that have been around for a long time.






edit on 21-1-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Excuse me, but do you even know what in the world you are talking about? Because i certainly have no idea.



You are talking about people in the 80s and 90s forming some sort of groups.
I am talking about the pop culture of the 70s and 80s.....

Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, etc.
only ill-educated idiots followed that stuff.

so - okay.
You win.....
how about we get rid of them all now? I mean, abolish them, you know?
Fundamentalist, literalist, science-deniers, Limbaugh listeners, etc .... and generally brainwashed types...... deal????
Good.

Are we done?
I hope so.

Nice chatting to you.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
...
so - okay.
You win.....
how about we get rid of them all now? I mean, abolish them, you know?
Fundamentalist, literalist, science-deniers, Limbaugh listeners, etc .... and generally brainwashed types...... deal????
Good.

Are we done?
I hope so.

Nice chatting to you.


You are still not understanding what I am talking about...

It wasn't me who made the claims these groups are extremists... This is what the SPLC claims.

The SPLC has become a left wing organization that labels right wing groups, and people with different ideas than left wing as "extremists and hate groups".



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I figured this thread should go here since we are talking about domestic terrorist cells within the country that operate under the premise that the government is tyrannical.

Anti-Government Extremist Groups Are A Uniquely American Problem


In the days since gunmen took over a federal wildlife refuge in Burns, Oregon, the anti-federalist militants have accomplished little more than exhausting the patience of locals.

At the same time, they have brought renewed scrutiny to American right-wing, anti-government extremist groups -- a population whose numbers surged in the 1990s and are on the rise once again.

A tally released Monday by The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist organizations, identified 276 anti-government militia groups in the U.S., a 37 percent jump from 2014. The militia groups are an armed subset of so-called patriot groups that "typically adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines and subscribe to groundless conspiracy theories about the federal government," according to the law center.

Heidi Beirich, who directs the law center's Intelligence Project magazine, said the rise of the anti-government movement follows a predictable pattern of surging during a Democratic presidency and then falling under a Republican one. Extremists like the Posse Comitatus surged during Jimmy Carter's presidency in the 1970s, while Bill Clinton led the country during a time when the militia movement was involved in high-profile confrontations that included the Waco seige, Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing.


Beirich isn't lying either. Check out this graph that goes along with the article.


It's especially bad with Obama. Now I'm not necessarily trying to start a partisan mud slinging fest, but that graph is rather disturbing. Why is it that when a Democrat is in office, extremists decide the government is coming to destroy their lives, but while a Republican is in office, this isn't a factor? I have my suspicions, but like I said I'm not trying to turn this into a partisan mud slinging contest.


Extreme anti-government suspicion is a characteristic that Beirich said is unique to the United States.

"This country was founded on overthrowing a tyranny," Beirich said. "This revolutionary fervor is kind of embedded in the U.S. -- this idea if you don’t like the government, you grab guns and overthrow it.”


This isn't exactly the best of ideas, and going by rhetoric used in the media that gets you labeled as a terrorist these days. Violent overthrow of government is a terrible decision unless the government is already firing on the people en masse. That isn't the case now or at any time within the last 200+ years this country has been a country and that includes Waco and even the Civil War (the South started that war).


"Anti-govermment extremism is all over the country, but what’s unique about the West is that it’s a place where the federal government owns a lot of land," Beirich noted. "And a lot of the anti-government extremists live in rural areas. The West lends itself to this."

Beirich said groups like the one in Oregon were galvanized after a 2014 confrontation at the Bundy family ranch in Nevada between armed militants and federal law enforcement.


People like this need to wake the hell up. They aren't Rambo or some movie star in an action film. This is real life. There are real consequences for your actions and things don't get tied up all nice and neat and the end of your story arc.


Brian Levin, an attorney and criminologist, said the overall risk posed by anti-government groups is growing. Levin, who directs the nonpartisan Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism at California State University, said it was a "material change" that the militants in Oregon have moved from "mere rhetoric to action, and from action to forceful action."

"This is a significant milestone because we’re seeing now a coalescence of a grassroots organization, which is responding to events and trying to influence them through show of force," Levin said. "We’re seeing aggressive and criminal conduct to make this point."


In other words, terrorism. Though I LOVE Levin's idea to handle these crazy assholes.


Levin, who described himself as third-generation law enforcement, said the "less is more" approach to handling the militants will avoid opportunity for martyrdom or further notoriety.

"When things go south, the first question is always, 'Why didn’t you wait?'" Levin said. "A court order is still valid, and can be executed at a time and place of the government’s convenience. And no one gets killed. And we haven’t given these extremists fodder for their own recruitment efforts."

While a threat exists as long as the militants remain armed, Levin noted federal officials can afford to give the occupants room, since they effectively "put themselves in their own jail" by holing up in a remote and empty building with few snacks.

"Do you want to eat frozen Spam over a half-lit fire in a desolate tundra? Knock yourself out," Levin said. "It’s not like they occupied a resort in Maui.”


And that pretty much looks like what we are seeing go down with the Bundy "patriots" round 2. It's pretty funny watching them rant and fume about the government about to come kick their door down guns blazing (they like to talk about Waco a lot); meanwhile it never happens and they end up sitting in the middle of nowhere in the cold for days on end while the government just plays a game of attrition with them. Idiots.


911 accounts for some or all of the lessening of discontent in the Bush years. Partly out of fear of real terrorist problems and partly out of fear of a government with carte blanche. I think the all clear sounded from the Bankster Bailout, which happened exactly as the parties switched over in 2008.

Which is one of the many benefits the gov got from 911.


www.psychologicalscience.o rg - Why Do People Defend Unjust, Inept, and Corrupt Systems?...

I believe you might be right. 9/11 caused everybody to be afraid and actually SUPPORT the government enacting new laws. Here's a list of the things whihc make people support corrupt systems:
1) Inescapabilty
2) Dependence
3) Threat to the system
4) Low personal control

About inescapability and low personal control:

When we feel we can’t escape a system, we adapt. That includes feeling okay about things we might otherwise consider undesirable. The authors note one study in which participants were told that men’s salaries in their country are 20% higher than women’s. Rather than implicate an unfair system, those who felt they couldn’t emigrate chalked up the wage gap to innate differences between the sexes. “You’d think that when people are stuck with a system, they’d want to change it more,” says Kay. But in fact, the more stuck they are, the more likely are they to explain away its shortcomings. Finally, a related phenomenon: The less control people feel over their own lives, the more they endorse systems and leaders that offer a sense of order.

edit on 1/21/2016 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse



The SPLC has become a left wing organization that labels right wing groups, and people with different ideas than left wing as "extremists and hate groups".

But, those groups are "extremists and hate groups."



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

But, those groups are "extremists and hate groups."



Sorry but no, just because groups, and other people have a different opinion than you doesn't make them extremists and haters...

BTW, because you are pretty much labeling all people with conservative values as "being extremists and haters" you are hating and having an extremist view on the topic...

How would you like to be labeled by the government as "an extremist and hater" for your views on all conservatives?...


edit on 21-1-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


BTW, because you are pretty much labeling all people with conservative values as "being extremists and haters" you are hating and having an extremist view on the topic...

Fair play, isn't it? After all, we on the left are all eugenics-promoting Commie idiots, and thieves, and gun-grabbers....right? Liars and tools?
Right? Evolution-promoters, and Climate Change advocates, and baby-parts peddlers.



How would you like to be labeled by the government as "an extremist and hater" for your views on all conservatives?...


You mean - wait...you mean, like you conservatives label all Muslims? All Atheists? All Planned Parenthood staff? All university-educated liberals? Like you do, you mean???


I already am labeled that by your conservative MSM talking heads and ridiculous presidential faves!!!

By the "government", though? No. Not yet.

By the conservatives, yes. Glenn Beck can pick my nose and then eat the booger. Same with Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, whoever you like. They are ridiculous.
The fekking GOP is in charge, and shoots down EVERYTHING that progressives try to do...................


LOL!!!!
I'm a liberal, an outspoken Progressive, an anti-theist agnostic, a Democratic Socialist, and a professional social worker ("SJW" as you all so charmingly label people who think like I do.) All that is aside from being the mom of two Millennials.

You already hate me and think I'm an extremist hater. Amirite?
Thought so.

So ------- You dish it out, but can't take it?
Try thinking.
Because brains.

edit on 1/21/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's the Komradettes !!





WE BELIEVE IN WORKERS’ CULTURE AND WE REPRISE THE BEAUTY OF WORKERS’ CLOTHING.

WE CELEBRATE THE IMAGE OF THE BLUE COLLAR WORKER TO SHIFT SOCIETY’S DESIRES FROM LUXURY TO NECESSITY. DOWN WITH LUXURY! UP THE PRODUCTIVIST WORKSUIT!

WE BELIEVE CLOTHES MUST BE VERSATILE, DURABLE AND ELEGANT. WE LOVE MACHINES,TOOLS AND FUNCTIONALITY.

WE BELIEVE IN BOLD COLOURS, STRONG MATERIALS AND GEOMETRY. WE DISLIKE FRAGILITY, DECORATION AND IMITATING NATURE.

WE REJECT THE COMMODIFICATION OF INDIVIDUALITY THROUGH LUXURY AND SNOBBERY. COMRADETTES PROMOTES THE VALUES OF SOLIDARITY AND THE COLLECTIVE!



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

WTF?

gah

goodnight, xuen



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

When did I ever wrote everyone in the left is like that?... Post where I ever wrote that i hate you...

Aren't you "supposed" to be tolerant?... It is obvious you aren't.

You see, you claim that your views aren't like those of dictators, yet you are right here advocating the government labeling of all people who lean to the right as "extremists"...


edit on 21-1-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:49 PM
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"Patriot" groups should really be called "white a$$holes who don't like the fact that there is a Black President".

It's not surprising that there has been a massive boom in the number of these groups since Obama took power in 2008.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

First, you post wherever I said that I hate you....
and then tell me again how "extremist and hateful" I am.

Please.

Thanks in advance.



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

First, you post wherever I said that I hate you....
and then tell me again how "extremist and hateful" I am.

Please.

Thanks in advance.




It is you who keeps not understanding. Because i don't agree with your point of view doesn't mean i hate you...
You want to claim that you are so tolerant, yet you aren't tolerant with others that have a different view than yours.

I have said it many times before not all Muslims are bad people but there are many radicals. That's different from claiming all Muslims are radicals. You are puting words in my mouth I have never written.

Yes, i have stated that left wing views can lead to extremism. When you label everyone who disagrees with your point of view as an extremist, that is in itself extremism.

Where the hell have i stated all people who lean to the left are extremists? i have even stated that not all left wingers are socialists, and that all socialists are not communist, but all communists are socialist. Don't you understand the difference in that statement to claiming "all left-wingers are evil dictators?"

Don't you understand that by admitting to agree with the government labeling people as extremists, not for any violent tendencies they might have, but simply based on ideology is extremist in itself? How the hell is that being "tolerant"?...

What's next after a government labels all people who lean to the right as "extremists" and "haters"?...

By you agreeing and supporting that it is ok for the government to label all people who lean to the right as extremists, you have shown to agree with a dictatorship. Hitler and the NAZIS said the same thing of Jewish people and other minorities... That they were a threat to the German people and Germany... What came next?...



posted on Jan, 21 2016 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is no such thing as "Anti government" anything, unless you are referring to those in politics and the media who covers for them using this phrase as propaganda.

People and groups who are referred to in media as "anti government" are only being called that to deflect what the group is angry about (An over reaching and out of control government), which is to say that the government folks who tell the MSM to call the group "Anti government" are actually the ones who are anti government, since it is the people of the united states who in fact really are the government, not the people in government positions of leadership abusing their power to get stinking rich and commit all kinds of real anti American deeds.

Look to your leader to see who is really anti government, and stop being a talking lap dog for those abusing their powers for a change. And learn to understand what these things really mean, and why these stereotypes are used in the media in the first place.



posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 06:31 AM
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a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Dude, I really don't care about the label they use. The point is that these groups are more numerous during Democratic presidencies rather than Republican presidencies. Why is the government only overreaching during Democratic presidencies? As I pointed out earlier in the thread, many big name overreaching policies were enacted during Republican presidencies too. TSA, Patriot Act, torturing prisoners of war, etc. To me this says that these "anti-government groups" or "patriot groups" (if you prefer) aren't what they claim to be. What I see is just a bunch of partisan idiots pretending to care about government overreach when THEIR guy isn't in charge.
edit on 22-1-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

sigh

**************************
extremist
[ik-stree-mist]

noun
1.
a person who goes to extremes, especially in political matters.
2.
a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.
adjective
3.
belonging or pertaining to extremists.

******************************
ex·trem·ist
ikˈstrēməst/
noun
a person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, especially one who resorts to or advocates extreme action.
"political extremists"
synonyms:

fanatic,
radical,
zealot,
fundamentalist,
hard-liner,
militant,
activist;

(informal) ultra

"with little to gain from moderation, the extremists rule the day"

****************************

Sorry, but I don't think we are able to communicate. For years you have foamed and spat about how liberals are COMMUNISTS, and communists are EVIL, therefore liberals are EVIL. It's not true.

Shall we review "hater" next?

meh....never mind. Think what you want. I've never suffered fools very well, that is true.


edit on 1/22/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey


Ha...must be an Italian thing.

Assault with a wooden spoon?

Nah. My mom is half German (so was my dad) - and that spoon waving in the air was enough to stop us fussing.

Now - when my neighbor (a guy twice my size and about my age) said to me:
"I will put my hands on you and hurt you" that was an offensive threat.
It is legally assault.

I thought about pressing charges, but some 20 years ago another nutjob neighbor (an ex-cop) threatened to shoot me AND my dog, and I called the police. They said I needed his dob to file a complaint ( :/ ?? ). I said I didn't have it....
they came back half an hour later and GAVE ME his full name and dob; he'd been a trouble-maker on the force, too -----
wound up in some sort of "Domestic Squabble Arbitration" pain in the ass.....

he didn't show up, obviously, but he laid off the threats after that.

This neighbor who recently threatened me refused to answer the door when my husband went over there and beat on it after I told him what had happened. This was a year ago. Later I heard through the neighbors that he'd had two strokes or some such thing and is drain bamaged (AND an asshole).

Meh.
He stays away now. Tough guy threatens a 56-year old woman who weighs 125 pounds...but won't answer the door when a guy his own size shows up to defend her honor.....

douche. Plus, he killed our cat, and we know it. First time, he just shot it - it came home with a pellet in its belly....cost us $1300 for ER and surgery. Bastard was the last to see that cat alive when it disappeared two years later.

It is a felony to kill a pet - it is NOT 'property damage/vandalism'.
Terrorism.


edit on 1/22/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

sigh

extremist
[ik-stree-mist]

noun
1.
a person who goes to extremes, especially in political matters.
2.
a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.
adjective
3.
belonging or pertaining to extremists.
...


And you agreeing and rejoicing on the government labeling all people who lean to the right in politics as "extremists and even possible terrorists" isn't the very definition of "extremism"?... Really?...



originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Sorry, but I don't think we are able to communicate. For years you have foamed and spat about how liberals are COMMUNISTS, and communists are EVIL, therefore liberals are EVIL. It's not true.

Shall we review "hater" next?

meh....never mind. Think what you want. I've never suffered fools very well, that is true.



Stating that socialist policies tend to lead to more and more socialist policies, and this leaves a door open to communism is different to claiming "all liberals are commies"...

The only ones who have always used the "oh yeah us liberals are commies" stupid comments are people like yourself who try to stop any discussion of this trend of socialist policies leading to more socialism and then communism...

As for "hater"... Difference of opinion does not equal to hatred... But again, you obviously don't seem to know the difference.

Now look at your next response, an insult... Nice going there.




edit on 22-1-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Jan, 22 2016 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


all people who lean to the right in politics as "extremists and even possible terrorists" isn't the very definition of "extremism"?... Really?...


erm....seriously?

no.
"leaning to the right" is a whole different thing. I (and the SPLC) are talking about people like Westboro Baptist Church, Bundy types who take over a federal building with weapons, etc.

"leaning right" is a bland and rather meaningless term that I would apply (if pressed) to those who are not rabid in their views, but open to hearing both sides. Someone who says, "Well, I can relate to what Chris Christie says, but also Bernie has some really, really good points."

That is not EXTREMISM.
People who parrot Rand Paul and claim that doctors will become slaves - those are "extremists".....
it is nonsense to even imagine such a thing.

I mean - the day that happens will be the day of the 1st Annual Hunger Games.

Presumably we all wish to avoid that sort of outcome.
At least, we bleeding-heart, lily-livered, liberal, socialist commies do.

Sorry if that is unpleasant for you.

edit on 1/22/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



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