originally posted by: NightSkyeB4DawnI guess the question becomes, who are the primitive people and which tribes, because
this is happening in present day, and in the streets of Europe at the moment. While Islam may be c!ear on the issue of rape, many that practice Islam,
don't seem to be as clear on the issue at all.
Firstly, again, we don't KNOW what happened yet. There are rumours, speculation, but nothing so far has been proven. So, to jump to conclusions - is
not really helping.
Regardless their origin and beliefs I feel that the assaulters should be punished according to German Law, exactly as they would be if they were
native Germans. It somewhat depends on the severity of the rape, but normally something between 2-15 year in prison and in many cases the raped will
demand "Schmerzensgeld" (compensation). Note that these are the punishments for actual rape, so, penetration or severe humiliation. In this case,
perhaps the judges might decide this was not rape, but "sexuelle Nötigung" (sexual assault), in which case it can be punished with at least 1 year in
Please note that it is a well known fact that many North-African / Middle Eastern regions are run by tribes and those tribes superimpose their
personal beliefs, culture and habits on Islam, a bit like we in Europe do with our Christian faith: Santa Claus and Eastern are fine examples of much
older festivals that have been "integrated" into our version of Christian belief. To get an idea of the number of tribes,
check up this map
In fact, much of the problems in the middle-east were caused by Western intervention: we, for example, installed Saddam Hussein, who indeed unified
the nation. After his removal - another Western intervention - the old tribe culture became more important and old tribal quarrels turned into real
life wars again. Anyway, my point is that it isn't really Islam that is the problem, it's the way PEOPLE of various tribes interpret Islam. In our
eyes the tribes are primitive - but they have their advantages.
If you want to learn more about tribalism, you may want to check out this article
Part of any tribesman's job description is to maximize both the number of children and of livestock. There are practical reasons for this:
First, children aid in labor. Nomadic pastoralism requires heavy physical work. Workers are needed to conduct many tasks simultaneously. Family
members are more committed to common interests than individuals recruited for reciprocity or pay. Large families also enhance political stature.
Because technology remains constant across tribal societies in any given area, the factor that determines military strength is how many fighters an
individual can muster. The man who can call on five or six adult sons and a similar number of sons-in-law to support him is a force with which to
reckon. Cultural values underline this emphasis on progeny. A man is not a man if he cannot produce children, and a woman is not really an adult if
she does not become a mother.
This largely also explains why they marry young, and have more than one woman, why the women are kept in the house, are not really supposed to study
and work (that get's in the way of getting and raising children) etc.
Please note that this system has served them well for hundreds of years. Also note that our individualistic approach to sexuality, procreation etc.
mostly originates from the 1960s; before that we had our own "tribal systems", of which many traces are still visible in modern society.
From a Muslim point of view, rape is abhorrent. From a tribal point of view, that woman is a potential mother and the men is a hunter. It is up to the
womans tribe (family, relations) to protect her and if she walks around unprotected, well, that's more or less an invitation. Even more so if she
walks around in shorts, or with her hair undone and visible. So, it's not Islam that created the culture of rape and sexual assault - it's the tribal
If you want to fight rape and assault committed by people from the ME, you need to understand THEIR culture first. And like it took us 40-50 years to
gradually accept homosexuality, transgenders, sex for pleasure (instead of procreation) etc. - it may well take them a while.
What we can do and should do is yes, inform them and educate them. And of course - and most of them do - they have an obligation to blend in here.
But for now, we don't even KNOW if it were people from the ME..