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Ben Carson reveals his new tax plan (flat tax)

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posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Exactly why should taxes be simple?




posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Another fallacy? You're in a higher tax bracket than you are.

The thing is, low-paying labor type jobs need someone to do them. Those people should be able to not struggle to survive.

The wealthiest people I know are not by any definition the hardest working. They were born into wealth, or were absolutely cut-throat and stepped on top of people and used people to get ahead.

Hard work does not equal success. If it did, there'd be a lot more rich people in the world.
edit on 4-1-2016 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: peskyhumans

If I make $25,000, under that plan I'd pay $3,725 leaving me with $21,275 to live off of.

If I make $500,000 under than plan I'd pay $74,500, leaving me with $425,500 to live off of.

It's a helluva lot easier to live off of $425,000 than it is $21,000.

A gallon of milk or a loaf of bread costs the same to both people. The basic necessities for life don't become cheaper if you're poor or more expensive as you get rich.

Flat taxes hurt the lower income people the most.


What you just said was utterly retarded.

The flat tax is inherently fair because it's a percentage. In your example the person making $25,000 a year is paying $70,775 less in taxes that year than the person making $500,000 a year. How is this harder for the poor person? Other than the fact that they are poor, it's not. If the poor person doesn't like being poor they should get a better job. Being poor shouldn't excuse you from paying your fair share.

If you don't want to pay your fair share, go find a country that doesn't tax it's citizens. Good luck with that. As long as we live in a reality where we pay taxes, we should try to make our tax system as fair for everyone as possible. A flat tax is fair.

Also about your example of someone making $25,000 a year. I made less than that for years before I got my college degree, and my current job (which I love) doesn't make much more than that. I would still love a flat tax because it's the most egalitarian tax system we could have.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

Exactly why should taxes be simple?


For one, it makes it harder to find loopholes. Which is a big problem with our current complex tax system.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: peskyhumans

When you start with a smaller pool of money, even the same percentage causes a bigger dent in your ability to live.

Cost of living anyone? Hello?

As I said, the wealthy person can buy 100 times the food, clothing, medical care than the poor person -- a poor person who is doing a job that the rich person needs to have done.

Wealthy people wouldn't be wealthy if they didn't take advantage of the poor. The wealthy need the poor to do the labor, and the wealthy should realize that their wealth comes from these people.

It's like a rockstar realizing that without his fans he wouldn't be a rockstar. You have to appreciate your fans, or in this case -- the labor force that enables you to make your money.

Taking the same percentage from someone with a smaller starting pool of money has a larger impact on their ability to meet the basic requirements to live.
edit on 4-1-2016 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

Exactly why should taxes be simple?


There is no reason for our tax code to be so convoluted. Every year around tax time I see an article where a journalist take an average tax payer and four or five accountants do their taxes. None of the accountants come up with the same tax liability. This is the problem with our system.

I have an MBA and my household income is typically in the 1%er. My wife and I have to pay $500/yr for an accountant to do our taxes. Our tax returns are like 70 pages of mumbo jumbo. Utterly ridiculous. I can deduct this, but only if that occurs under certain circumstances when A happens to be greater than B, but no more than half of C but not more than three times D in an odd year.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: peskyhumans

When you start with a smaller pool of money, even the same percentage causes a bigger dent in your ability to live.

Cost of living anyone? Hello?

As I said, the wealthy person can buy 100 times the food, clothing, medical care than the poor person -- a poor person who is doing a job that the rich person needs to have done.

Wealthy people wouldn't be wealthy if they didn't take advantage of the poor. The wealthy need the poor to do the labor, and the wealthy should realize that their wealth comes from these people.

It's like a rockstar realizing that without his fans he wouldn't be a rockstar. You have to appreciate your fans, or in this case -- the labor force that enables you to make your money.

Taking the same percentage from someone with a smaller starting pool of money has a larger impact on their ability to meet the basic requirements to live.


Life is not fair. The same poor person crying about having to pay 10% in taxes never seems to have a problem paying for a pack of Newports or Swisher Sweets. With that said, I don't have a problem with some lower tiers. I Just want everyone to pay something.

I became fiscally conservative when I graduated from college. I managed to get a great job. I got a $5k signing bonus. I really needed the money as I needed it to live off of for a few months before I started work after graduation. After taxes were taken out, I was left with like maybe $3000. I was like WTF?! I really needed the money.

It was then that I understood. I didn't mind paying some taxes, but nearly half my money? And for what? So I started researching and understanding where the money went and it was at that point, I became a fiscal conservative. So even though I wasn't making a lot of money, I still felt the pain.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

While I don't exactly like the overly complex tax system we have, I wouldn't be so quick to say that overly simple is the solution to it. I'd rather we spent time rooting out tax loopholes than rewriting the tax code completely.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Wow, great for you.

I don't mind paying taxes either, but I think it shouldn't create class warfare.

If you studied where the money went, then you must know that most of it is defense spending.

Personally, if you live and work within the confines of the United States, and use your citizenship to leverage your earning potential -- you utilize the economy, infrastructure, labor force, you owe responsibility to it in the form of taxation.

Without the economy, infrastructure, labor force, patent protections, ect -- you wouldn't be a rich person. America is an ENABLER to those who want wealth. And if you make your wealth off the backs of Americans and within the confines of America -- you owe America. Nothing comes free, there's no free lunch.

The more you make the greater responsibility you have to the country that ENABLED you to create your wealth.

We ought to have a system where higher taxes are felt evenly by the wealthy as they are by the poor. They should feel the sting in their daily lives from their tax rate just like the poor do.

Why are we punishing the working poor, the people who make our lives possible?

I guess people are disposable and we should worship the rich...



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: peskyhumans

I agree 100%. A flat tax with no loopholes, no deductions, period. Everyone pays their fair share. It would eliminate all the BS and yearly paper work during tax time. The rich and corporate elite can no longer escape paying their fair share. I would also tax any money being hidden in foreign banks.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 02:51 PM
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I want to point out that no matter what the government does with the tax rates, that doesn't mean it is going to reduce government spending. By all accounts, government will just continue to spend at their current level regardless of what tax income it receives. So if you only end up reducing incoming taxes to the government, you are by effect going to expand the spending deficit.
edit on 4-1-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: interupt42




BTW i'm for the flat tax and would ignore all of Carsons other cookyness and vote for him just for a flat tax.


So ignore all the possible bad things based on one possible good thing that you don't even believe will be implemented?
ETA:
This next part isn't aimed directly at you but obviously feel free to respond.

I find it funny that every one tosses around that this is the fair plan, fair for everyone and such.
The funny part about that is, that IMO these are the same people that will tell you that life is not fair and you need to get over it and suck it up.

I don't hate the flat tax idea, just think that just find the fairness logic coming from some people that support it funny.

Also, is there a nation that does it?
edit on thMon, 04 Jan 2016 15:11:51 -0600America/Chicago120165180 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

That's what pay stubs are for, they show how much you have been taxed and can be referenced later.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: peskyhumans

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ReadLeader
Taxes cannot be lower for everyone and still raise the same amount of money. For every dollar that your taxes are low/lower, someone else’s has got be a dollar higher.

Yup, we know the argument "cutting taxes may cause people to work harder and thus substantially increase government revenue".


Not if it attracts foreign capital and investiture or compels domestic companies to invest here instead of abroad.


if he lowers the corporate tax rate to 15% I bet there will be a HUGE boom in job creation and big business in this country.


In some cases, yes, but in others it would not. Take a corporation heavily based on manufacturing, for example:

If they save an additional $1,000,000 by housing their manufacturing operations in China, currently, at 35%, they pocket an additional $650,000 after taxes. If the tax rate were reduced to 15%, their incentive to save an additional $1,000,000 in the cheaper labor market in China would rise from $650,000 to $850,000.

There's other factors at play, of course, but reducing the corporate tax rate would mostly simply cause more corporate HQs to be based in the US, rather than parking themselves in Ireland, or other lower corporate tax nations. That's a good thing as well, of course, but for some reason everyone seems to think reduced corporate tax rates somehow encourage manufacturing to return to the US, when in reality, they increase the financial rewards for exportation of jobs to lower wage locales.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 04:49 PM
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He's a clown. I'd bet my life savings against him being even the nominee, let alone being elected. Just ignore him, he'll go away soon enough.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 05:15 PM
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Isn't the income tax actually illegal in the US - don't know but I heard it somewhere.

I always think that a tax on consumption as opposed to production is the right way. Zero income tax, but higher taxes on what you spend.

As for Mr Carson, I suspect he will be dropping out soon and I will be very interested to see where his voters go. Trump and/or Cruz perhaps?
edit on 4/1/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: peskyhumans
video.foxnews.com...=show-clips
(links to a video)

Carson's tax plan is a 14.9 percent flat tax with no exceptions and no loopholes. I have supported the idea of a flat tax for many years now - this makes me want Ben in office even more. Everyone should pay an equal percentage in taxes and anything else is unfair.

While it's nice he wants it without any loopholes we will see how it actually works though - if the rich can find a loophole they will. I'm thinking of Zuckerberg's "charity" where he founded an LLC with his family in control of all the money. I wonder if the next generation of the upper crust will all be self-proclaimed philanthropists in charge of billion-dollar "charities"?

IMO a flat tax is elegant, simple, and inherently fair. If you are upset with our current tax system please consider Ben.


A flat tax sounds quite reasonable.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: dogstar23

Most of the big corps are already hiding their profits overseas to avoid paying taxes.

Do you really think if we changed things here in the USA they'd magically all "come back home"?

We'd have to offer them an ever better deal than they have right now, which would screw us even more.



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

Exactly why should taxes be simple?


I have an MBA and my household income is typically in the 1%er. My wife and I have to pay $500/yr for an accountant to do our taxes. Our tax returns are like 70 pages of mumbo jumbo. Utterly ridiculous. I can deduct this, but only if that occurs under certain circumstances when A happens to be greater than B, but no more than half of C but not more than three times D in an odd year.


If it's too hard on you, why don't you just tell your employer he's paying you too much?

Or, you could just take a voluntary pay cut and get yourself down to a lower, more manageable income level.

Or, you could split that money among the lower paid employees and spread out the tax burden. I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

Filing your taxes would be much simpler, your tax rates would be lower and the best part is, the rest of us wouldn't have to listen to you whine about paying your CPA $500 a year to find all those loopholes that are only available to the uber wealthy.

No one is forcing you to remain at your income level.

You know, the same way no one is forcing the poor to remain poor. Right?
edit on 4-1-2016 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2016 @ 07:30 PM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: peskyhumans

Really, a flat tax? How is this a new idea? How many GOP candidates have proposed a flat tax over the years? It's not a new idea at all.

And, the idea that a flat tax works out for the lower and middle classes is nonsense. It's a tax scheme that benefits the wealthy, it's another trickle down system. Currently the wealthiest pay up to 39% in taxes while the lowest tax rate is 10%. Those who ear between $9000 to $37,000 a year pay a 15% tax rate. They will not see a tax deduction in their taxes from Carsons plan. However the CEO earning $1 million a year will see his taxes cut by 60%.

How is this a fair tax system? The wealthy get a reduction of up to 60% but those earning less than $37,000 see no change to their taxes? How does this work out? Is the wealth supposed to trickle down again?

A "fair" tax you say? No.


I was hoping someone would come in and clear this up. It helps the wealthy. It's the republican way.



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