Has Two Democracies Ever went to war with each other ??.

I am asking from a historical perspective and when I say democracies I am talking about full blown democracies not that they have to be perfect, I've also heard that nations with American fast foods like Mc Donalds or Pizza Hut rarely come to blows I am scratching my head for modern history examples and the closest I came up with was Britain vs Argentina but abandoned that idea after remembering Argentina was ran back then by one Agusto Pinochet, any modern history buffs out there pls chime in.

a reply to: Spider879

India and Pakistan - 3 times

But Pakistan was mostly under military rule. So can't say if they had elected government at the time of these wars.

Pinochet was from Chile, you were thinking perhaps of the military junta headed by Galtieri.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Pinochet was from Chile, you were thinking perhaps of the military junta headed by Galtieri.

Yes ma bad thanks, sometimes I got my dictators mixed up.

Depends .. On the definition of democratic.

When you count Hitler as an elected leader...

He invaded other democratic countries as for example The Netherlands.

People who say that Hitler wasn’t really elected are usually germanophiles who search for excuses for crimes of the german people in the “Third Reich” (the argument is that a small undemocratic minority oppressed the good people of germany). The idea that Hitler wasn’t elected democratically is probably an allusion to the fact that he[2] never got more than 50% of the votes (th e best result was some 44%). Americans, with their “the winner takes it all”-system tend to forget that you can win a german election without winning a majority.

The problem with this is that, without a majority, you have to form either a coalition with other parties, or form a minority goverment, or both, and in fact that was the problem that had plagued the Republic from the beginning. To put the results into perspective, the 43,9% for the NSDAP in the 1933 election was the best result any party had ever had in the Republic of Weimar from 1919 to 1933[3] (second best was 37,8% for the Social Democrats immediately after WWI)[4]. Governments were habitually formed without any democratic basis at all, so the result of the 1933 election might have looked like a step forward.

Link

Depends on how democratic you want your democracies, Peru and Ecuador in the 80's, Honduras and El Salvador in the late 60s, Israel and Lebanon a few times, Turkey and Cyprus, Spanish American War, I am sure their have been others.

originally posted by: medesi
a reply to: Spider879

India and Pakistan - 3 times

But Pakistan was mostly under military rule. So can't say if they had elected government at the time of these wars.

Interesting but yeah military rule wouldn't cut it.
But I wonder if they would likely to got to war now since there have been some changes.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Pinochet was from Chile, you were thinking perhaps of the military junta headed by Galtieri.

Yes ma bad thanks, sometimes I got my dictators mixed up.

Easy done mate!

originally posted by: MrSpad
Depends on how democratic you want your democracies, Peru and Ecuador in the 80's, Honduras and El Salvador in the late 60s, Israel and Lebanon a few times, Turkey and Cyprus, Spanish American War, I am sure their have been others.

Thanks I wasen't sure two functioning democracies never going to war with each other was urban myth or not, and Im guessing these were largely border wars.
Spanish American War, was Spain a democracy then?

U.S. and Britain against Iran 1953. U.S. against Chile 1973. U.S. against Nicaragua nineteen eighties.

a reply to: Spider879

Give this question some love stars and thought... great question and a fascinating journey in research

originally posted by: DelMarvel
U.S. and Britain against Iran 1953. U.S. against Chile 1973. U.S. against Nicaragua nineteen eighties.

Covert ops could be seen as undeclared war I guess, but this was not done with consent of the people but I have to take it.

originally posted by: EartOccupant
Depends .. On the definition of democratic.

When you count Hitler as an elected leader...

He invaded other democratic countries as for example The Netherlands.

People who say that Hitler wasn’t really elected are usually germanophiles who search for excuses for crimes of the german people in the “Third Reich” (the argument is that a small undemocratic minority oppressed the good people of germany). The idea that Hitler wasn’t elected democratically is probably an allusion to the fact that he[2] never got more than 50% of the votes (th e best result was some 44%). Americans, with their “the winner takes it all”-system tend to forget that you can win a german election without winning a majority.

The problem with this is that, without a majority, you have to form either a coalition with other parties, or form a minority goverment, or both, and in fact that was the problem that had plagued the Republic from the beginning. To put the results into perspective, the 43,9% for the NSDAP in the 1933 election was the best result any party had ever had in the Republic of Weimar from 1919 to 1933[3] (second best was 37,8% for the Social Democrats immediately after WWI)[4]. Governments were habitually formed without any democratic basis at all, so the result of the 1933 election might have looked like a step forward.

Link

That is a biggie right there and completely overlooked and misunderstood as I had, voted in by the will of the people .

a reply to: Spider879

Sure they have. Wikipedia - List of wars between democracies.

Amazing how many of those were the US vs someone else.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: MrSpad
Depends on how democratic you want your democracies, Peru and Ecuador in the 80's, Honduras and El Salvador in the late 60s, Israel and Lebanon a few times, Turkey and Cyprus, Spanish American War, I am sure their have been others.

Thanks I wasen't sure two functioning democracies never going to war with each other was urban myth or not, and Im guessing these were largely border wars.
Spanish American War, was Spain a democracy then?

Spain had a Queen but, like the UK the position was ceremonial but had parliamentary democracy. And yeah it does not happen as often but it does happen.

originally posted by: EartOccupant

When you count Hitler as an elected leader...

Um. Germany in 1939 was not a democracy. Hitler may have been initially elected, but rapidly ensured he could never be unelected!

Modern Western democracies tend to avoid conflict with each other.

Russia is apparently democratic and has gone to war twice (Georgia and Ukraine), however some would argue that Russian democracy is a bit of a joke and is now more a kelptocratic autocracy.

The Yugoslav Wars were between democracies, but these were highly nationalistic.

Democracy in the modern sense has had such a limited history that clear-cut examples would be hard to find. The Cold War found them aligned against the communist countries.
After the French surrender to Germany, Britain was obliged to launch attacks against the French fleet. If the Vichy regime had been more democratic than it was, the military necessity would still have been there.
The Britain which fought the war of 1812 had an elected Parliament, but would have disavowed the word "democracy".

originally posted by: Spider879
I am asking from a historical perspective and when I say democracies I am talking about full blown democracies not that they have to be perfect, I've also heard that nations with American fast foods like Mc Donalds or Pizza Hut rarely come to blows I am scratching my head for modern history examples and the closest I came up with was Britain vs Argentina but abandoned that idea after remembering Argentina was ran back then by one Agusto Pinochet, any modern history buffs out there pls chime in.

That sounds similar to the Democratic Peace Theory:



I think it has some merit in that democracies are unlikely to go to war with one another. That said, while the basic assertion is more or less true, there have certainly been wars between democratic states.

Chr0naut's list is a good list of democratic states which have waged war with one another.

The 'Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention', as presented by Thomas L. Friedman, states that countries with sufficient economic development are able to sustain a middle class (exemplified with fast food outlets) and therefore will no longer be interested in going to war. In essence, it states that globalisation alters the economic development of countries and drives a force of inter-dependence which will result in less war. Thomas L. Friedman's assertions that countries with fast food outlets have never gone to war were refuted by other academics at the time of The Lexus and the Olive Tree's publication. I will let Wikipedia talk about it though:

Shortly after the book was published, NATO bombed Yugoslavia. On the first day of the bombing, McDonald's restaurants in Belgrade were demolished by angry protesters and were rebuilt only after the bombing ended. In the 2000 edition of the book, Friedman argued that this exception proved the rule: the war ended quickly, he argued, partly because the Serbian population did not want to lose their place in a global system "symbolised by McDonald's" (Friedman 2000: 252–253).

Critics have pointed to other conflicts as counterexamples, depending on what one considers "a war":

- The 1989 United States invasion of Panama

- In 1999, India and Pakistan fought a war over Kashmir, known as the Kargil War. Both countries had (and continue to have) McDonald's restaurants. Although the war was not fought in all possible theatres (such as the Rajasthan and Punjab borders), both countries mobilised their military all along their common borders and both countries made threats involving their nuclear capabilities.

- The 2006 war between Israel and Lebanon, following hostilities ongoing since 1973, with South Lebanon occupied until May 2000. (McDonald's franchises were established in Israel and Lebanon in 1993 and 1998, respectively.) However, the Lebanese Armed Forces were not a party to the fighting, the Israel Defense Forces action being taken instead against the paramilitary group Hezbollah.

- The 2008 South Ossetia war between Russia and Georgia. Both countries had McDonald's at the time (restaurants began in the two countries in 1990 and 1999, respectively).[1]

- The 2014 Crimean crisis between Russia and Ukraine. Both countries had McDonald's at the time.

en.wikipedia.org...

The link has a description of debates between Friedman and his critics if you are so inclined to read further.

In summary of the post, it can be asserted that there have been conflicts between democratic states, and between states which have fast food outlets. It is a rare occurrence however.

UK and USA in 1812.

There's not really any country which can claim to be a true democracy, I think for example the US is a 'Constitutional Republic' and there hasn't been one since Ancient Greece, or so we're told. I think it depends greatly on which side of the demographic you're in as to the particular nomenclature, but it's always been a class issue as to who keeps the most sheep or who points the most guns at you. The default system for homo sapien seems to be tribal patriarchy, but even that seems to inevitably leads to warfare and even the model of ancient democracy, Greece, went around stomping the crap out each other from time to time.