My solution for gun violence and gun rights

a reply to: Kandinsky

Yea. I agree. I happen to be in the "educate and rehabilitate" camp as opposed to the "punish and lock away" camp when it comes to handling criminals though.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Kandinsky

Yea. I agree. I happen to be in the "educate and rehabilitate" camp as opposed to the "punish and lock away" camp when it comes to handling criminals though.

It does look to be a more successful approach in various Scandinavian places. Of course, it could be apples to oranges as the cultural differences and demographics are quite different. Whatever the case, a trail of rehabilitation and education has the fall-back position of returning to executions if it failed.

There's no fall-back route from dead is there?

Over the years I have come to the realization that everyone and everything dies regardless of who or what it is, regardless of the reason or method used to bring on such demise.

Considering one will die eventually, maybe it would be better to take the estimated amount of time of life from the killer in relation to the estimated amount of time the person they killed may have lived if they would not have been killed by them.

In the end, live or die, kill or be killed by whatever method.....we all die anyway, regardless.

It is this human vindictiveness and the strange need to get even for things that one cannot not get even for that really worries me about mankind.

In their grief relatives and friends and associates chant and scream and cry and plead for vengeance on another who may have done a thing to a loved one that cannot be changed or corrected....Those who cry out for vengeance appear to be as mentally deficient as the one who committed the supposed crime against someone.

Grow up mankind, # happens and there isn't a damned thing you can do to fix a lot of it, or pretty much any and all of it.

Nobody wants to die yet everybody wants redemption and forgiveness, how could somebody will the very thing they fear most on anyone else when they are not the very one's who have been caused to die or had criminal acts perpetrated against their own person?.

This thought process occurred to me while I was in a combat zone killing other men.

There is no redemption.
There is no forgiveness.
There is no getting even.

GROW UP, GET OVER IT, MOVE ON....

Without forgiveness, redemption or hope, there is possibility for only the things we want least.

There is just no getting even.

Stop acting like spoiled children throwing tantrums about things that will not be corrected however hard you scream or thrash or curse or stomp around angrily.

There is no correcting the natural course of things.

It makes no real difference how one dies in the end and nobody knows when or how that thing may come.

It makes no difference to the dead how they died, they're dead and their story ends when they die.

I don't know how to explain exactly what it is I mean with this post, but one thing I have no problem explaining is my disappointment by the childishness of my own species.

We spend so much of our time contemplating getting even and getting ahead and getting "our piece of the pie" that we forget all about the fact that in the end it means absolutely nothing. Maybe we just have too much free time on our hands.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Haha! Great point. It's just a shame that no one wants to try something new with our prison system, though everyone readily admits it's one of our biggest problems in the country. Yet we keep trying the same methods of dealing with criminals we always have and wonder why things keep getting worse.

a reply to: paraphi

- "How about the out-dated US Constitution is updated to conform to the 21st century? "

I'm up with that as long as those States that don't ratify the changes are allowed to opt out of the new US as established by changes to the old Constitution. Its fundamentally unfair to change the social contract midstream. Allow an opt-out and you're all good to go on updating the Constitution.

Killing with firearms is about the most humane thing we humans do to one another.

Other things do happen that are much worse and those things are what cause people to snap and grab a weapon and run out hurting people.

...But let's just dwell on a thing that is only a symptom of a much more widespread disease...

I think the problem is more mental illness caused by unceasing exploitation and abuse over time, which some people just can't take.

Turn off those devices and learn to think again.

Maybe just go outside and play.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: smirkley

Well, considering I don't agree with a death penalty this solution doesn't sound very good to me. Murder is murder and how it is done and for what reason shouldn't affect the sentence.

And life in prison is what? Inhumane torture. If your disagreement with the death penalty is for ethical reasons, how can you possibly support the revenge torture concept of life in prison? Even if the person is innocent it does them not a lot of good to be living and paying for something they didn't do for 40 years before someone somewhere figures out there was a mistake.

"Oh goody! They have decided I was wrongly convicted! But I'm 75. WTF am I supposed to do now?"

a reply to: smirkley

I'm iffy on the death penalty, so I won't comment on that.

I will say, however, that having worked in the legal field directly and indirectly for nearly a decade, I have come to the understanding that mandatory sentencing is one of the worst thing that a "just" legal system can do.

Your proposal sounds quite far from a solution to anything, in my view.

originally posted by: smirkley
This is already and will be a hot topic for 2016.

So I offer a solution.

Gun rights - cant change it and it shouldnt be changed.

But, if you murder someone intentionally with a gun and are convicted in a court of law, then you get a 5 year prison sentence and only until all appeals are exausted. Then it converts to an automatic death penalty.

It is pointless to have any leniency or forgiveness.

Here in Florida we have the 10-20-Life law. If you commit a crime with a gun it is an automatic 10 years added to the sentence. If you pull it out it is 20 years, and if you fire it it is life. You also are charged with the original crime. In Florida you must serve 85% of your sentence.

And guess what? Criminals still use guns every day here.

a reply to: smirkley

wont work, murder and prison have been proven to not be motivational deterrent for many.

When people go on a gun shooting spree they are typically suffering from some mental break down which prevents them from thinking rationally, hence ignoring such laws.

The best solution for gun violence will be effective non lethal weapons that allows people to protect themselves or a stable content mentally fit society which is unattainable.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: paraphi

- "How about the out-dated US Constitution is updated to conform to the 21st century? "

I'm up with that as long as those States that don't ratify the changes are allowed to opt out of the new US as established by changes to the old Constitution. Its fundamentally unfair to change the social contract midstream. Allow an opt-out and you're all good to go on updating the Constitution.

Wasn't your right to bear arms established by virtue of the 2nd "Amendment?"

FYI: To amend something is to change it.

The U.S. Constitution was intentionally designed to allow for "amendments," or changes from the very beginning. That's exactly why we've had 27 "Amendments" or changes since it's inception.

Now all of a sudden, you want an "opt-out" option if you don't agree with possible future amendments? Give me a break!

Instead of imprisoning or killing offenders, it would be better to study them and find out how they ended up being the way they are and acting on the results of those studies to catch the problem or disease before it becomes symptomatic.

We would probably find out that nearly everyone is a looney tune to a certain degree.

Eliminating weapons won't work, charging people with crimes won't work.

The world is what drives people mad.

Screw it,...

a reply to: Flatfish

Why shouldn't there be an opt-out?

Its obvious there are at least 2 distinct cultures in the US. Those that value freedom and those that don't. If a person wants to amend the Constitution to prohibit individual citizen ownership of firearms, let them live in a country where people can't own firearms. But don't impose that restriction of freedom on everyone.

It always amazes me how some feel somehow authorized to impose tyranny on others.

Many "Death" sentences are enforced outside the Courts.

criminals aren`t afraid of prison so putting them in prison isn`t punishment,if you want to punish criminals sentence them to something that they are afraid of like hard work and responsibility.
The Russians have the right idea, labor camps for all criminals,maybe even teach them a trade while they are there.

Put them to work on government farms growing food they can used to feed poor people so we can get rid of food stamps.
Put them to work in government shops making shoes and clothes,etc that can be given to poor people so we can get rid of welfare.
Put them to work doing anything that will free up tax payer money so the money can be given back to the taxpayers.

Criminals are suppose to be paying a debt to society what better way to pay a debt than by paying it in cash.

criminals aren`t afraid of a free place to live, free food, free medical care,24 hours a time of free time to lay about doing nothing, they are afraid of hard work and being a responsible citizen.not only is it punishment but you might actually make a hard working honest citizen out of them.

a reply to: Tardacus

Put them to work on government farms growing food they can used to feed poor people so we can get rid of food stamps.
Put them to work in government shops making shoes and clothes,etc that can be given to poor people so we can get rid of welfare.
Put them to work doing anything that will free up tax payer money so the money can be given back to the taxpayers.

We tried that back in the day it was called chain gangs, and it was abusive and exploitative back then as I am sure as it would be today , corporations would love a real slave labor force, for the prison system is fast becoming privately run and so would those farms and factories we would need to get rid of the Prison Industrial Complex before even attempt the above.

a reply to: Tardacus

But the people who are the real criminals in this world, who exploit and take advantage of entire populations, entire countries, entire planets if they have their way, have had a say in the writing of those laws which keep them from having to ever do any real work their entire lives and never have to really and actually answer for any crimes they may commit.

Amendment XIII

Section 1.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The lawmakers will change it in nay way they see fit in the future to ensure they never have to answer for their crimes against humanity.

Cases should be tried and sentenced on their individual circumstances, not on whether someone had a gun or used a gun. To boil down the legal system and sentencing to one variable is crazy.

originally posted by: smirkley
if you murder someone intentionally

........

Prove intent.

with a gun and are convicted in a court of law, then you get a 5 year prison sentence and only until all appeals are exhausted. Then it converts to an automatic death penalty.

Going to court......appeals.......sitting on death row........ are paid with my tax money? I think not.

It is pointless to have any leniency or forgiveness.

And yet you want the legal system involved. Check this for your lack of leniency and forgiveness kiddo:


You must be young and hopeful for the future. I'm older and I'm not. Get rid of every single firearm of every type off the face of the planet and you'll be making progress. After that, some sort of lobotomy or drug on/for every single person on the planet that strips them of any and all violent tendencies. (And yes, I'll be the first in line) .Then you'll be making headway. The endgame of course is world peace. Sound boring? The people who think that way are f.....g idiots. Ask any psychiatrist and they will tell you that there is a broader range of positive emotions, namely love, in humans than negative ones. In other words, there are more ways to love than there is to hate. Make more use of the positive ones and you'll have a pretty interesting life.

www.psychologytoday.com...

Problem is, we have been conditioned to be hateful, divisive, violent and, of late, anti-intelligence. Make all the gun laws you want, they wont do any good. Make a law and you also just made two loopholes. Mae a law concerning the ramifications of what we do, and you just ignored the underlying reason as to WHY we did it. Can't regulate that though.....God forbid. We have RIGHTS damn it. Until you change WHAT you regulate, you're screwed, and all your rights won't save you.

Taking away too many rights? Too many privileges that the current human condition gives us? Too bad. We were made imperfect. Time to streamline the human condition. Most people on this planet have more rights then they can handle intelligently anyway. Especially here in America. Give 'em inch and they'll want a mile. And then two.

As if they've earned it.

We still talk about race. We still talk about "foreigners" who MIGHT do us harm in the U.S. We talk about the police. We talk about criminals. We talk about safety, and we talk about all of this in a way to where a gun makes the final cut. A gun is the only proven solution.

Let me reiterate: The people who believe this are f.....g idiots, and they are the most vocal. They are the one's you hear in your hometown, on Twitter and on Facebook with an "inspiring" meme to drive that point home. Stop listening to them and they might stop talking.



Give it up bro. Quit looking inside the box of social norms for your answers. They're not there.

a reply to: Spider879

removing abuse and exploitation from the current system or any system is a whole different problem that would require a whole different solution.
The system we have now doesn`t work,never has worked,and never will work,if you want to make a hard working honest citizen out of a criminal you have to teach them how to be one and give them a lot of practice at being one.
A system of government owned and operated labor camps for criminals will give criminals a lot of practice at getting up everyday and working to earn their keep and give something back to society.
We already have something similar to it the courts call it community service.The main difference between community service and a labor camp is that people sentenced to community service don`t get free room and board they have to provide their own room and board as well as transportation.
no system is without it`s flaws but it makes a lot more sense to provide a way for criminals to give something back to society and the taxpayers than it does to have the taxpayers continue to foot the bill to have criminals warehoused and doing nothing all day.