"Why do non-Christians come here?" Here's why -

a reply to: chr0naut

Okay. Thanks!!!

Perhaps I'm too tired to continue participating at this point.

THANKS to all of you...for posting and contributing.

I appreciate it - and Happy New Year, all!!

originally posted by: windword
The Bible is a given, meaning what exactly in your threads?

Let me use an analogy.
When two lawyers are debating a legal point in court, they are trying to ascertain what the law means.
In other words, the existence of the relevant statutes is a given. The validity of the legal system is a given.
They do not get into fine philosophical speculations about the origins of the legal system and whether humans have the right to impose statute laws. They take the body of statute law for granted, and take that as their starting-point.
Or another analogy I used just above; if people are trying to talk through the politics of the forthcoming elections, the reality of the physical universe is a given. They don't want to get side-tracked into a philosophical argument about whether it is real or an illusion. They take it for granted, and they take that as their starting-point and get on with discussing one of the details of life in the physical universe.

If one of my threads is looking at the meaning of a particular passage in the Bible, then that passage is a given. It is the starting-point of the discussion, which moves on from there.
Just as, if I were considering the meaning of the Data Protection Act of 1997, that document would be my starting point.

Is it a given that the Bible is true in your threads, or that your interpretation of some passage is given to be true? No room for interpolation?

Yes, of course I'm willing to take part in an argument about whether my interpretation of the text is accurate. But how often is this what people are trying to do?

What I hate is when religious OPs direct their critics to post in another thread, in order for the poster to catch up to the OP's compartmentalized method of proselytizing. IF they protest, the OP claims them to be off topic. What they do in their threads is counter any argument, claiming the issue has already been addressed by them in some previous thread that they also authored, or that they have a thread coming up in the future, in which that topic can then be discussed.

Yes, I grasp the point that you are complaining about my standard practices.
And I have told you people, more than once, exactly why I do it.
It is an anti-trolling protection mechanism.
You know as well as I do how much the anti-religious trolls love to de-rail religious threads by taking them off-topic and bringing in any remote criticism of religion that takes their fancy, so that it becomes impossible to discuss the subject in hand.
So I counter this de-railing approach by keeping the topic strictly limited. One piece of the jigsaw at a time.
And you cannot claim that I am "refusing to discuss" something if I have already discussed it in another place.
It is a very important defence system, and I intend to keep on using it.

Another method of diversion is to ask"Why are you even here if you don't believe?!"

But that one isn't something you've seen in my posts, so I'm not going to comment.

a reply to: Tucket

Travelling the boards, Ive noticed that various atheists seem to be disgruntled former xtians who were fed christianity by fundie parents... Now that theyve liberated themselves, they feel the need (or just for funsies) to try and talk sense (or belittle) into those silly Christians who still hold faith.

It has to do with having survived and (successfully) processed and moved beyond the emotional/mental anguish that was imposed upon them by "fundie Christian" support systems (church, parents, teachers, pastors, etc.)

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

In my opinion, a religious individuals questioning of why a non-religious individual feels it necessary to interject into religious threads is about the tone that some non-religious individuals use when attempting to relay their message into the religious themed thread.

It does not help when religious individuals immediately get the heckles up and focus on the messenger instead of the message. On ATS, most long time members know each others slant on this subject and the rhetoric tends to side with a focus on the posting history of each poster versus the specific theme being discussed.

Personally, I enjoy reading religious threads where non-religious posters weigh-in as it provides a "checks and balances" flavor to the thread instead of a boring back-slapping exercise. I usually leave the thread once posters start attacking each others personal beliefs and generally being disrespectful and demeaning - after all, religion is by it's very nature, a personal choice so by attaching that religions' fundamental tenets is usually synonymous with attacking that individuals core belief system, and when that happens it can become personal.

Either way, it is important that folks show respect to other members' opinions and refrain from deliberate provocations and attacks.

What??
Santa ain't real?? Naah

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: chr0naut

I might ask for another one if they were taking me to the UnHoly Mother of Baphomet Hospital, Mausoleum and Mosh Pit

What?

I really don't understand your point.

its talking about the devil but in a very ignorant way. nm it was about faith healing? it can happen i guess

Of one thing I'm certain....

It won't be the atheist destroying the planet. Armageddon will come from different religious factions seeking control over the other.

i have an unpopular opinion on many matters, so i would be sorely remiss to deny others their right to unpopular opinions. as it had been said, i disagree with what you say but i will defend to the death your right to say it. at the same time, broadcasting your opinion is tantamount to challenging the world at large to...eh, sink your boat, if you will. my boat is grand and glorious and unsinkable. it is the nature of society to test this claim, for curiosity if nothing else. if you want to keep your boat intact and unscathed, dont tempt the reefs, for the world is full of them.

thanks for sharing, buzzywigs.

In some parts of the USA or world, maybe everywhere you turn there is some sort of religious propaganda and okay it's on the currency in USA. In my town, where it's very open minded, this is not happening. Probably in New Orleans Or Salem Massachusetts there are occult stores scattered about like in my town that as they stare me in my Christian face, I don't mind. In fact I know more than a Christian probably should about what the bible refers to as ''pagan'' It doesn't bother me and as a Christian, I never try to shove my beliefs down any one's throat.
Live and let live, do no harm. As I think somebody else stated, if you are true to your Christian faith, somebody else's belief should have little effect on you. Just like if an atheist is firm in their belief, God should not bother them.
Comparing my faith to Santa Clause doesn't have any lasting effect on me because I firmly believe everything the bible says about Jesus Christ to be true.
Finding out Santa Claus was my parents didn't change my belief in the spirit of giving or sharing... so for me Santa Clause is alive and well in spirit.

originally posted by: CallYourBluff
No, it's because pseudointellectual types like to pick on those they deem inferior.

I "dump" on christians and any other religious person because I care about them and don't want them to continue going through life living for "god" and "jesus" when they would be much more effective humans if they threw away their crutches and stood on their own feet and faced the universe head on and unabashed.

How can we evolve as a human race and work on the bigger problems when people are just content to sit around and get fat and rely on jesus to save them?

I dump on religion because it is damaging and I care.

a reply to: olaru12

Yep , we should find a better rock to live on and leave them this one to destroy.

This is the closest thing I could find in the blog cited in the OP that resembles anything near an answer to the question posed in the title, and it is unsurprisingly completely childish:

If you think this all sounds ridiculous or farfetched, this is exactly what it’s like living in large portions of the United States for people who aren’t Christians. This is why we keep engaging in public discussions about God. It’s because this idea—which other people seem to think isn’t any of our business—is all up in our business every day of our lives. That makes it our business.

In other words, if you Christians are going to ruin those Atheists' days with your bulls#, they're going to ruin yours with theirs.

I've said it a thousand times: they do it out of spite, a most hateful and harmful way to be.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

For me its not all or nothing.

Because I don't go along with "Churchianity" doesn't mean I don't believe in a spirit world. If I interject into a "Churchian" thread its usually because i saw a chink in their armor that needed to be pointed out.

Organized Religion is man made. I try to distinguish between that and the reality of the unknown.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

This thread (the OP) references an off-site answer to people who ask why non-believers feel compelled to respond to "believer" threads.

What people? I must have missed the thread that compelled you to start this one.

originally posted by: TNMockingbird
a reply to: spirit_horse
It appears that I was misled my entire young life while "in the church" and my parents were wrong as well!
This is an odd statement to me.

I don't think believers really care what non-believers think, so I guess it is a curiosity only

I was raised/taught that one should go into the world and "preach" the gospels, to make non believers believers, and to win souls.
I remember something about when "everyone in the world has heard the gospel" then the end (of the current world) would come.
I also wonder why then aren't the early Sunday morning religious broadcasts on a "pay per view" type cable setting where only those folks who believe can watch. If it wasn't important to "get the message out" to non believers why the Bible drops and missionaries to other countries?

I am asking respectfully...

OK, I know the idea of evangelizing the masses and it is preached in the churches. I was raised Roman Catholic, was sent to their schools, etc. I personally do not feel it necessary to talk to people about my beliefs unless they are interested in such. You may not agree with it. There was a big difference in the RCC and other Christian denominations in reference to the bible. The RCC didn't really want us reading the bible as much as they wanted you to hear their interpretation of it. I don't know what your denomination was, but maybe you feel more strongly about it. I wouldn't say you were wrong in that at all.

I was more saying that if say several Christians were discussing something about Christianity and our beliefs that if an atheist came into the discussion and not at all interested in our discussion because they think it is all a fairy tale, then I don't care what their belief is. Perhaps it is from experience with them that it doesn't matter what you say they don't believe and have zero intention of believing and really are there just to disrupt the conversation. If someone legitimacy wants to know something I would be glad to discuss it, but that has not been my experience. I also can't terminate them and force them into the afterlife to find out and then bring them back to this reality. So, I let them be. Live and let live.

And trust me that I was once fed up to my eyebrows with having things pushed on me. It took some study and death to bring me around to my current beliefs. Which happen to be unusual and more hybrid that anyone would understand. I disagree with several things the RCC states. I don't see Christianity like Islam that the believer needs to convert or die or be oppressed anyway. And like the OP comparing Santa to God is typical of their comments most of the time. Like the little invisible man in the sky, it is just a way for them to try and belittle close to 3 billion people that believe in God. Who cares what they believe? If it makes them happy then have at it. Most of them know more about the religion that half the believers, so trying to convince them of something they have no intention of doing anyway is a waste of time and detracts from the discussion.

Of course they have the right to do so if they please. It is one of the reasons you don't ever see me in this forum. I think this is the first thread I have participated in since I joined ATS backed even before 08 when I created this account. Many people I talk to feel the same way. Basically, I don't see any resolution as neither can prove their side. Either you have faith, experience dying and being brought back, or you don't. I was not given the option of bringing back proof from the other side either. I don't engage in name calling and belittling people like some atheists do either.

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein When a Christian has true faith, they act on it... doing things that help others, not just sit on their bum and get fat. Just as you want people to see what you deem to be the truth, so does a Christian want others to know what they believe to be true. It's a matter of agreeing to disagree and moving on. A true Christian knows they cannot force anyone else to believe what they do and at that point all a Christian can do is pray in private.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: nwtrucker

No intrigue whatsoever...that's why the attempt at humor.

Ah!! Okay then!!

I can see the humor now....
lol!!

Thank you!!!
You've been an enigma on ATS, as far as I'm concerned.....couldn't make heads nor tails of your position.

neither can I....

a reply to: peppycat

i like what you said i live in reno there is alot of different people. if they don't bug me i don't bug them, a person is a person regardless of creed race or color, i don't like the door to door people that can't take a hint when i tell them i am not interested in christ and do not want the damn pamphlet

a reply to: intrepid

I see no difference between militant theists and atheists. They can get extremely aggressive too.

It depends on what you consider "militant".

I think the majority of anti-theists see themselves as fighting a centuries old oppressor, that has done everything in its power to oppress those who don't submit to their "gods" will. And as a whole, I agree with their cause. However, that agreement stops the moment violence comes into play.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: spirit_horse

I think the point is that if Christians are discussing something among themselves about their religion, it makes no sense why one would need to interject their disbelief, etc. I don't think believers really care what non-believers think, so I guess it is a curiosity only.

Interesting response.

So, by extrapolation......

if ISIS members are discussing something among themselves about their religion,
then there's no sense in anyone needing to interject their disbelief....
right?

It's not "curiosity only". It's outreach.

Well I don't think they would listen to anything you have to say either. You would just be there to state you own belief in non-belief, So? Who cares, They believe and they are discussing their beliefs among themselves. Now, it would be another matter in the case of them recruiting others to their beliefs. By all means you should jump in and see if you can prevent someone from being misled. I just don't think you will get there with ones that already do no matter how much you try.