A Forum Implodes

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Sublimecraft

You did see my 2nd to last paragraph, right? As well as my post(s) about social media in SO's thread, correct?

I did and completely agreed with you, both here and in SO's thread. However, what can be done about it? are people being dumbed down somehow? it certainly feels that way to me, how is this happening? i am seeing this degeneration both online and in real life, certainly from the younger generation .... 1980 onwards (i'm from the 60's). I refuse to give up

Cheers CbG

originally posted by: NpcHunter13
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

For someone who just joined (bypassed a ban possibly?) you certainly seem quick to judge others based on your own biased opinion. Do you know for a provable fact all these "nutters" are wrong, partially wrong, or fractionally wrong? If not and you can prove beyond a doubt that none of these things are detrimental or "truthy"t then you have no right to pass judgement. Saying such merely shows an inability to contemplate conspiracy theories and therefore you are the maybe the one who should be looking for somewhere else to voice your opinion rather than on a conspiracy site.

Good day sir/madam and may you find your peace and receive what you deserve in the year ahead.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Well stated Sublimecraft. This expresse my thoughts exactly and if I may say the very intent of the site/owners themselves. Decorum is becoming a thing of the past to be replaced with abusive, foul and thoughtless diatribe. I truly think it is a result of a failed common core curriculum which is totally lacking in social development the disenfranchisement of the family unit as well as a lack of standards regarding other sites T&C's and/or moderation. The fabric of society is literally fraying at the edges and becoming threadbare and I have little hope that it will not evolve into a world of anarchy and base emotional response.

There is a weakening of the moral fiber and as much as I hate to say it (being an Atheist) I truly believe it's from a lack of religious belief and following. There is nothing to replace the standards of behaviour that such an institution established.

May God have mercy on your souls for the humans who are going to inherit this rock certainly won't.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Civil discourse is one thing, but sometimes I feel some moderators remove posts based upon their bias views or personal political party affiliation. There are some discussions on ATS that have to do with religious extremism or equal treatment based upon race. Many of these threads have been taken down instead of removing individual posts that revert to name calling or are clearly showing someone's bigotry.

I had a post removed related to the planned parent hood shooting. All I did was say the guy was probably a pro-life supporter who was doing exactly what he's against, killing human life. I assumed the moderator decided to remove my post because he felt that it was offensive to Pro-Lifers. I was just trying to point out the possible hypocrisy of what this guy believed and his deadly actions. I posted this before news broke out that supported my belief that this guy was probably defending his Pro-Life beliefs. So in the end, my guess turned out to be right.

I questioned whether the moderator let they're personal strong beliefs in Pro-Life cloud their judgement in allowing me to voice my opinion on the subject. We're all human and to believe anyone can set their personal beliefs aside when judging others is really naïve.

No matter how questionable the subject matter, some of these discussions should be addressed. Political correctness doesn't address the underlying issues in society. It only creates a build-up of resentment. Eventually the issue explodes and creates more division and problems. Threads simply shouldn't be removed just because someone feels offended that their religion, race perspective or point of view is being questioned. I find some of these threads have a legitimate argument and many times Ops have included they're sources to support it! Yet later the entire thread is removed.

Part of the problem with some topics on ATS, and other sites that shall not be named is, that you have people playing both ends against the middle. Yes, I'm actually saying I think there is a concerted effort to devolve certain topics to such a level of ridiculousness on both sides, they become near impossible to discuss. Some folks take great pleasure in such activities just because they can. The only reason it isn't(normally) as prevalent on ATS as it is on some others sites is, because the staff here go to great lengths to put a lid on it when they see it. But they can only do so much. The "adults" here also need to see it for what it is, and take appropriate action(or inaction) not to get suckered in. Whatever, that's my opinion, such as it is.

originally posted by: NewzNose
*POST REMOVED BY STAFF*

Staff are not lone wolves who run around like snipers looking to pick someone off. Most actions are discussed with other moderators before being taken. This has been repeatedly stated by the owners, and the moderators themselves, in most every forum on ATS. Including the 911 forum.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Heh, yeah, I am from the 60's as well. Well, this was when I was hatched anyway.

I see the same things also.

originally posted by: NpcHunter13
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Wow, It seems you are determined to keep things going precisely as they were....


Honestly, I quit caring about reputation when I was in High School.

a reply to: Metallicus

Hey Bro, go HERE to see what all this is about...
There is also Another Thread on This on the Front Page... Have a Good One! Syx...

The only forum I think that no longer holds relevance is the 2012 forum minus of course its place in ATS history and archives for people to read back on.

Judging by the nastiness displayed in response to Skeptic's initial thread addressing this problem, it's a wonder they haven't decided to close it permanently.

Frankly, it isn't just the 9/11 forum. There are some very mean people posting here who take advantage of their anonimity to treat other people rather badly.

And, one cannot disagree with an argument without eventually being labeled a troll.

If you can't refrain from attacking a poster instead of his argument you should log out and take a break for a while.

a reply to: whyamIhere


this is an outrageous tactic though of a site host holding a subforum hostage unless 100% of forum users abide their rules, BECAUSE, in any topic on any forum you will always have a percentile of people who WANT to break the rules whom WANT the topics to be shut down, often they are called paid shills but they may only be internet trolls its irrelevant the fact remains you cannot expect to avoid those type of jerks on the internet, moderating them as has been done thus far is the only option, if you use them as your excuse to shut down a sub-forum then its clear they are only the excuse and you intended to shut that down regardless of them.

if poor posting behavior was really the only reason for shutting down that sub-forum then this whole website would be shutdown with it.

just my 2cents

Skeptic overlord practically spells it out that the 'shills' have been effective in the post he made when closing that other thread.

originally posted by:SkepticOverlord[/post] "Our near-15-year experience with the (mostly) insanely rude people siding with various fractured factions of "9/11 Truth" has been beyond unpleasant.

There are conspiracies related to 9/11. It's the fault of the above described people that nothing substantive has come to light, and the subject is broadly ridiculed. "

the efforts of those accused of being shills have been successful, if their goal for bringing disinformation and controversy to that sub-forum was to try and get it shut down, then they win, they succeeded. this is what they wanted. Skeptic overlord himself is saying exactly this, he is saying it IS because of those type of people that the real conspiracies occurring in this topic will not come to light, whether the people are paid shills, ignorant fools, or just bored trolls is completely irrelevant, the point is they wanted the topic squashed by ridiculing it and every person in it, and thanks to some help from those who run this site, they succeeded.

So that's the new game now is it? No matter what the topic, if you can get enough posters to lie, insult the information and the poster and generally cause trouble then they get a post removed from debate entirely. Their job done for them.
Do the mods do a good job? You tell me. If they have a heavy load of moderating posts then employ more mods.
There are numerous ways mods can handle trolls or shills or whatever you want to call them, but to remove a post because they have taken it over is definitely NOT the way forward.
This after all is a conspiracy site and the majority of posts ARE going to be contencious and the replyers (if showing signs of trying to bring a thread down through prevarication) should be seriously reprimanded and if the mods can't do that then as been said before you might as well throw the towel in now.
By the way has anyone got the information of how many "insulters" it took to bring the thread down. If it was only a few tens then it could be a concerted effort to bring the site down. A conspiracy in itself. Then ATS must fight to keep it's debates civilized but not quash every dissention as that IS the basis of debate.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

The real question is, WHY NOW.

These threads have gone the exact same way since 2006 that I have read.

Pretty odd that suddenly we need a wholesale change....

And to be frank the goading was almost ALWAYS started by people fighting for the official side.

To say it was not is disingenuous, they were allowed to degrade conversations, constantly, which lead to the side who do NOT believe in the official story to defend themselves with similar tactics.

The tone employed by those posters set the stage on this site, and every other site in the world, I watched it all.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
a reply to: Sublimecraft

The real question is, WHY NOW.

These threads have gone the exact same way since 2006 that I have read.

Pretty odd that suddenly we need a wholesale change....

And to be frank the goading was almost ALWAYS started by people fighting for the official side.

To say it was not is disingenuous, they were allowed to degrade conversations, constantly, which lead to the side who do NOT believe in the official story to defend themselves with similar tactics.

The tone employed by those posters set the stage on this site, and every other site in the world, I watched it all.

My gosh, ALL the forums are full of jerks. To cripple the 9/11 for that reason is comical.

I'd say it's the first steps of a longer-term project to criminalize denial of the OS.

One of several topics here always handled with bias.

I wasn't very surprised to see it happen. I don't always agree with the mods on every issue, but after watching some of the threads devolve into what comes across as nothing more than arguments about whose "manhood" is more impressive, it's not difficult to understand.

Personal attacks and name-calling battles are not only immature, but they add absolutely NOTHING to ANY discussion.

Just as I'm sure you have, I've watched some folks get warning after warning, and time after time, it detracts from the flow of the thread to the point that it's just not worth the effort to try to follow the discussion.

I understand that some posters have EXTREMELY strong beliefs and opinions about some of the topics discussed, especially in that particular forum, and that's a GOOD thing, but if your argument gets to the point of a personal attack, you've basically just lost the argument, at least in my book .

ATS is one of the absolute JEWELS of discussion forums, whether you agree or disagree with the mods on any particular subject, and in my opinion, and it's loss would be nothing short of a TRAVESTY.

Moderating forums on a site as comprehensive as ATS is a LOT of work. PLEASE folks, be appreciative of the fact that it even exists, because like the song says, you don't know what you've got, till it's gone...

I would just hate to see a small number of argument-junkies ruin it for the rest of us, and all it takes to prevent it is to show a little courtesy, and at least ATTEMPT to follow a very small number of very simple rules.

Is it just me, or has this site slowly morphed from a conspiracy, alien and alternative thought site into mostly a news and politics site? I think its also slid from a somewhat libertarian to a bit more establishment leftist in overall tone.

These other ideas and viewpoints that once were posted in quantity still exist here but seem rather diminished in scope and quantity.

originally posted by: pirhanna
Is it just me, or has this site slowly morphed from a conspiracy, alien and alternative thought site into mostly a news and politics site? I think its also slid from a somewhat libertarian to a bit more establishment leftist in overall tone.

These other ideas and viewpoints that once were posted in quantity still exist here but seem rather diminished in scope and quantity.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree. There was a time when ATS was the GOTO site for non-mainstream topics, especially the alien and UFO stuff. It seems to have shifted noticeably to the left as far as political topics go, and good solid conspiracy topics have suffered for it. I don't think ATS itself is really to blame for that, because our entire society has devolved to the point where having a serious discussion is less important than making sure no one gets their feelings hurt, and no one feels left out.

It's much more difficult to have a serious intelligent discussion about conspiracy-type issues if the first concern always has to be making sure no one is offended. What about MY feelings? I'll tell you what offends me, the fact that there seem to be less people discussing issues like repairing our economy or political system, than which team Bruce Jenner plays for.