BREAKING: Armed militia occupies forest reserve HQ in Oregon, call ‘US patriots’ to arms

a reply to: daaskapital

Well good luck to them once the federal authorities decide to role all over the top of them. All this will prove is that guns and militias are no deterrent against TPTB. Best they can hope to become is martyrs or incarcerated for rather a long time.

Sounds to me like these "militia" should go home before they're all charged for a multitude of felonies.

a reply to: andy06shake

These guys get "rolled over" and 1,000,000 more will spring up. More than you know are watching to see if uncle sam shows his true colors, and when he does kill those people, you can count me amongst his enemies.

a reply to: freemanwalking

You pick you battles in this world. Attempting to fight in the TPTB in the manner they are accustomed to is stupidity. Simply playing into "There" hands.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: freemanwalking

You pick you battles in this world. Attempting to fight in the TPTB in the manner they are accustomed to is stupidity. Simply playing into "There" hands.

Actually, I would think they are more accustomed to people and entire countries submitting to them without putting up any fight.

originally posted by: symphonyofblase

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: muse7
A hellfire from a reaper should resolve this quickly

No, that will cause many hundreds more deaths when people take to the streets in Guerrilla warfare style and begin taking pot shots at anyone in uniform. It will even likely cause a civil war.

Civil war? Hah. American citizens have long been in a civil war with the government militia/police force.

True, but they, (American citizens), haven't seen government use a cruise missile to kill everyone occupying a building in protest of an already over reaching BLM and other federal officials, which was what started this particular line of comments. If that happened and was somehow caught on video and plastered all over the internet and then the news, you would see looting, the burning down of federal buildings, and the wholesale slaughter of people bold enough to keep their uniforms on.
It happened with the pentagon, but no one cared about them too much.

a reply to: Spider879

Sorry. I'm in a rather mischievous mood this morning and you're right......I just couldn't resist the temptation. A shabby attempt at humor.

if the militia folks really wanted to be helpful they should volunteer to work the guys ranch for him while he`s in jail so that he doesn`t lose his ranch,wouldn`t that be a lot more helpful than having a siege in a remote government building in the middle of nowhere?
They committed the crime (arson of federal property) now they have to do the time, 5 years mandatory sentence.

originally posted by: Tardacus
if the militia folks really wanted to be helpful they should volunteer to work the guys ranch for him while he`s in jail so that he doesn`t lose his ranch,wouldn`t that be a lot more helpful than having a siege in a remote government building in the middle of nowhere?
They committed the crime (arson of federal property) now they have to do the time, 5 years mandatory sentence.

Your first suggestion is an excellent one, but the second is plain baloney, that they committed arson of federal property is ridiculous. This would mean that their original intent was to do harm to federal property, and their intent was clearly not to do harm, nor to cause damage.
The arson charge is retribution and reprisal through and through. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

a reply to: interupt42

They all (both BLM and the ranchers) set the fires (but read on). There was more than one fire...

The original issue involved something known as a 'back fire', and as I understand it, the situation went down like this...

There were several fires set by lightning during a storm. BLM officials were starting fires to burn scrub, weeds and flammable deadfall to reduce available fuel for the forest fires. The fires they started got out of control (as often happens with these kinds of things). The ranchers in turn set what is known as a back fire. This is a fire which burns a fire line which another fire can't cross. They did this allegedly to protect grazing land which was in the line of the fire set by the BLM. The idea with a back fire is to exhaust the fuel and create a buffer zone.

The BLM claims there was a firefighter encampment near where the back fires were set (by the ranchers), and that the ranchers set the fires to entrap and endanger the firefighters, hence the arson and terrorism charges.

The fires in question covered several hundred acres.

I don't think anyone besides those involved know what the real story is, fire fighting strategy is a dangerous business here in the west under any circumstances. However, I have thoughts on both sides of the matter. They are as follows:

- The charges of arson and terrorism seem pretty trumped up in my mind, a bit too extreme for the area of the fire and number of people involved.

- Long time 'homestead' ranchers here in the west have a long history of taking the law into their own hands on federal land (leased or not). They also tend to have some peculiar views about who "owns" the land and who has authority over it. These views can become pretty radical. The Bundy case in NV is a good example of this.

In both the Bundy case, as well as this one, federal land was involved. The issues are complex, and not easily understood by many, but they make for great media fodder (on both sides). Many times these issues involve laws which are hundreds of years old. At the end of the day both of these cases boil down to who has jurisdiction over federal land. As noted, it's a complex issue.

This is the heart of why the militia is involved in this case.

The bigger issue in my mind is what seems to be the predatory actions of the federal government in overruling a judges reduction of sentence (this is not why the militia is involved).

Cases like this do not fit well into a 20 second news sound byte and there are numerous and lengthy background components which, to understand, must be explained. So what you have is a militia calling for support over the original issue, but the action being taken by the federal government has more to do with a judges reduction of a sentence (much more recently).

Hopefully I haven't confused you further.

originally posted by: freemanwalking

These guys get "rolled over" and 1,000,000 more will spring up. More than you know are watching to see if uncle sam shows his true colors, and when he does kill those people, you can count me amongst his enemies.

The Bundys are not a battle I would support since they were wrong in the first place.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

but I thought they plead guilty to the arson charges?

a reply to: projectvxn

What would be these felonies you refer to?

They have done nothing wrong, other than speak their minds. Is this now a felony also?

It may have been said already in this thread, but it bears repeating for those that don't know: The Bundy's are big supporters and believers in the Sovereign Citizen/Freeman-On-The-Land movement.

Now for those of your parsing the "Terrorist/not a terrorist" definition, officially the FBI considers the Sovereign Citizen movement "domestic terrorists".

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

but I thought they plead guilty to the arson charges?

I thought rioting, looting, and burning - when not getting their way - was solely exclusive to blacks and the BLM movement?

Well, there goes that narrative.

How are these people not considered terrorists? They are certainly using fear to push for their agenda.

As with those who want to destroy/vandalize property whenever their butt gets hurt, I have no sympathy for this.

Once again, I am absolutely amazed at the double standard of hipocrocy that America thrives on. Protest in the means of setting fires in Missouri?

National Guard.

Protest in the means of sitting fire in Oregon, with weapons, and a militia?

Chirp, chirp, chirp.

Why didn't this militia just have one or a few of their members take care of the Bundy's farm while serving the sentence?

Nooo, of course not, setting fire to national ground is surely a more mature and responsible approach.

And no, these people are not "standing up to a tyrannical government." They are a group of assholes.

Either we have a country or we don't....Trump is right about that.

Even if the Hammond's are wrong, and I have doubt about that, they served their time as mandated by the court. How would you like it on your next speeding ticket if they decided, You need to pay more, the first amount you paid, just doesn't seem enough.

Next time you eat a steak, hamburger or ribs, remember it is families like this who provided that meat. I live near ranchers, the government should treat them better, perhaps like rock stars.
It's hard enough just dealing with the normal challenges of tending a herd, and the ever shrinking range lands, keeps some of the prices down. I wouldn't blame the ranchers of this country to just say "Stuff it" and sell their land for housing developments; Many of the farmers have. They would live well on their money and we would pay more for the beef, . . . the ever more expensive steak, hamburger and ribs.
Of course we could get beef from other countries, like South America, mad cow taste the same as healthy beef, or so we've been told.



a reply to: daaskapital

Some militia men protest and stand up against the BLM which leads to entering a state office and every calls them rednecks, hillbillies, racists, domestic terrorist....etc...over cattle grazing rights. Cliven and this case.

80 Black Lives Matter protesters enter a restaurant to disrupt people and they are called heroes against the racist white man.
50 Black Lives Matter protesters stop traffic in multiple states and they are called heroes against the racist white man.
400 Black Lives Matter protesters disrupt school functions and they are called heroes against the racist white man.
Black Lives Matter protesters are called heroes against the racist white man by Senator Elizabeth Warren.
Black Lives Matter protesters are called heroes against the racist white man by professional sports atheletes.
Black Lives Matter protesters are meeting with Bernie Sanders AFTER protesting him.
Black Lives Matter is in the spotlight for standing up for, even if not in all cases, felons, liars and those who tried or succeeded in killing police officers.

originally posted by: Blindmancc
Either we have a country or we don't....Trump is right about that.

Even if the Hammond's are wrong, and I have doubt about that, they served their time as mandated by the court. How would you like it on your next speeding ticket if they decided, You need to pay more, the first amount you paid, just doesn't seem enough.

Next time you eat a steak, hamburger or ribs, remember it is families like this who provided that meat. I live near ranchers, the government should treat them better, perhaps like rock stars.
It's hard enough just dealing with the normal challenges of tending a herd, and the ever shrinking range lands, keeps some of the prices down. I wouldn't blame the ranchers of this country to just say "Stuff it" and sell their land for housing developments; Many of the farmers have. They would live well on their money and we would pay more for the beef, . . . the ever more expensive steak, hamburger and ribs.
Of course we could get beef from other countries, like South America, mad cow taste the same as healthy beef, or so we've been told.



a reply to: daaskapital

"Well that's just the way it is."
"Maybe you shouldn't get a speeding ticket."
"These ranchers should have went to college to get a better job."

And the government should treat them like rock stars?

"Whiny, entitled, hand-out generation!"

And I bet not a single bullet gets fired.

originally posted by: freemanwalking
a reply to: Asktheanimals

THANK YOU! I hate to say it but ats will strip you of your mod title for that one.

Why would you say that? ATA posted a valid opinion, that many agree with. His mod status doesn't prevent him from contributing to a thread.

Our society is in a fluctuating struggle between individual Freedoms, and government control of those Freedoms. What is happening in Oregon, is an example of the frustrations of American citizens coming to a boiling point.

I personally Appreciate ATA expressing what I think many of us feel. In reading his opinion, I read it as a fellow ATS member, not wrapped in his mod status.

JMOHO...

Des