Military to Military Seymour M. Hersh on US intelligence sharing in the Syrian war

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The document showed, the adviser said, ‘that what was started as a covert US programme to arm and support the moderate rebels fighting Assad had been co-opted by Turkey, and had morphed into an across-the-board technical, arms and logistical programme for all of the opposition, including Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State. The so-called moderates had evaporated and the Free Syrian Army was a rump group stationed at an airbase in Turkey.’ The assessment was bleak: there was no viable ‘moderate’ opposition to Assad, and the US was arming extremists.
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Military to Military Seymour M. Hersh on US intelligence sharing in the Syrian war

The Obama administration had been warned for years that toppling Assad and funding the opposition meant that the U.S. was funding the Islamic extremists, as according to intelligence, there is no moderate opposition to Assad since the Islamic radicals are in control of the opposition.

The joint Chiefs of staff even warned the Obama administration, and I quote:

‘Our policy of arming the opposition to Assad was unsuccessful and actually having a negative impact,’ the former JCS adviser said. ‘The Joint Chiefs believed that Assad should not be replaced by fundamentalists. The administration’s policy was contradictory. They wanted Assad to go but the opposition was dominated by extremists. So who was going to replace him? To say Assad’s got to go is fine, but if you follow that through – therefore anyone is better. It’s the “anybody else is better” issue that the JCS had with Obama’s policy.’ The Joint Chiefs felt that a direct challenge to Obama’s policy would have ‘had a zero chance of success’. So in the autumn of 2013 they decided to take steps against the extremists without going through political channels, by providing US intelligence to the militaries of other nations, on the understanding that it would be passed on to the Syrian army and used against the common enemy, Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State.
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www.lrb.co.uk...

There is obvious dissent within the U.S. government itself. Since Obama, and his administration decided to continue arming Islamic extremists, which includes ISIS, the Joint Chiefs of Staff went off official channels and instead shared this information with our allies "on the understanding that this information would be passed to the Syrian army and used against the common enemy, Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State."

To make matters worse one of our own allies, Turkey, hasn't been doing enough to stop the smuggling of weapons and fighters that keep increasing the radical Islamic forces.

Now, we have confirmation that the Obama administration has known for years that they were not arming moderates. They have been arming Islamic extremists, including ISIS.

I am expecting the Obama administration to suddenly start firing, once again, or demoting high ranking U.S. military officers for this information coming out.

This behavior by the Obama administration, and Obama himself of knowingly arming Islamic extremists which have a goal of implementing a global Caliphate by force, and which have been attacking the U.S., and our allies is unacceptable.

But the Obama administration is continuing to arm the same extremists who have publicly stated that they want to attack the U.S. and it's allies. I don't see them changing their tactics, which seem to include to make the Middle East unstable, and in control by Islamic extremists who want to destroy the U.S. and our allies.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

This behavior by the Obama administration, and Obama himself of knowingly arming Islamic extremists which have a goal of implementing a global Caliphate by force, and which have been attacking the U.S., and our allies is unacceptable.

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous claim, or are you simply going to conflate incompetence and bad judgement with intent and malfeasance?

a reply to: DJW001

Read the information provided instead of giving a knee-jerk reaction, and using a red herring with the only evidence provided by you being an ad hominem.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: DJW001

Read the information provided instead of giving a knee-jerk reaction, and using a red herring with the only evidence provided by you being an ad hominem.

But there is no evidence, just interpretation. Hersch ascribes deliberation where a more objective observer might see incompetence. It is his interpretation that is the ad hom.

a reply to: DJW001

No evidence?... what do you call the statements given to Hersch by U.S. officials such as former Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, director of the DIA between 2012 and 2014?

Hersch is reporting what the Chiefs of Staff, and other high ranking U.S. intelligence officers told him, or wrote in their own assessments. You are the one making ad hominem attacks, first at me, and then at Hersch without you providing any evidence at all but rhetorical hot air.

If all you are going to do is to attack the messenger/s instead of giving an intelligent and concise argument, then perhaps you should stay out of the thread. This is not the mud pit.

To me, the Obama agenda is obvious.

And I have always doubted the so-called "bombings" against ISIS. Bombings with zero results.

Now all of a sudden Russia gets more involved and we hear nothing but ISIS defeats.

1+1=2

It's an Obama-Saudi-Qatar agenda for the natural gas pipeline project.

Israel loves it too.

Russia has most of the gas business to Europe and has the most to lose if a pipeline gets to Europe.

Russia has the most to gain by keeping perpetual war.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

No evidence?... what do you call the statements given to Hersch by U.S. officials such as former Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, director of the DIA between 2012 and 2014?

Where does Flynn say Obama is deliberately arming ISIS? Here, please highlight the relevant words:

Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, director of the DIA between 2012 and 2014, confirmed that his agency had sent a constant stream of classified warnings to the civilian leadership about the dire consequences of toppling Assad. The jihadists, he said, were in control of the opposition. Turkey wasn’t doing enough to stop the smuggling of foreign fighters and weapons across the border. ‘If the American public saw the intelligence we were producing daily, at the most sensitive level, they would go ballistic,’ Flynn told me. ‘We understood Isis’s long-term strategy and its campaign plans, and we also discussed the fact that Turkey was looking the other way when it came to the growth of the Islamic State inside Syria.’ The DIA’s reporting, he said, ‘got enormous pushback’ from the Obama administration. ‘I felt that they did not want to hear the truth.’

This sure sounds incompetence and poor judgement to me.

For those who don't know who Seymour Hersh is, here is a little bit of information about him.

Seymour Myron "Sy" Hersh (born April 8, 1937) is an American investigative journalist and political writer based in Washington, D.C. He is a contributor to The New Yorker magazine on military and security matters. He has also won two National Magazine Awards and is a five-time Polk winner and recipient of the 2004 George Orwell Award.[5]

He first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. In 2004 he reported on the US military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison.
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en.wikipedia.org...

Pentagon report predicted West’s support for Islamist rebels would create ISIS
Anti-ISIS coalition knowingly sponsored violent extremists to ‘isolate’ Assad, rollback ‘Shia expansion’

by Nafeez Ahmed

A declassified secret US government document obtained by the conservative public interest law firm, Judicial Watch, shows that Western governments deliberately allied with al-Qaeda and other Islamist extremist groups to topple Syrian dictator Bashir al-Assad.

The document reveals that in coordination with the Gulf states and Turkey, the West intentionally sponsored violent Islamist groups to destabilize Assad, and that these “supporting powers” desired the emergence of a “Salafist Principality” in Syria to “isolate the Syrian regime.”

According to the newly declassified US document, the Pentagon foresaw the likely rise of the ‘Islamic State’ as a direct consequence of this strategy, and warned that it could destabilize Iraq. Despite anticipating that Western, Gulf state and Turkish support for the “Syrian opposition” — which included al-Qaeda in Iraq — could lead to the emergence of an ‘Islamic State’ in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), the document provides no indication of any decision to reverse the policy of support to the Syrian rebels. On the contrary, the emergence of an al-Qaeda affiliated “Salafist Principality” as a result is described as a strategic opportunity to isolate Assad.
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medium.com...

Here is a link to the document.

www.judicialwatch.org...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

This is Hersh talking about some of your op

Cant be the same policy of the past presidents, its gotta be Obama, am i right!!!

originally posted by: DJW001

Where does Flynn say Obama is deliberately arming ISIS? Here, please highlight the relevant words:
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Where does it say Obama, and his administration deliberately armed the radicals?... Obama, and his administration were told that the radicals were in control, and if the U.S. government gave arms to the rebels, it would only arm the radicals and give them control of the region. Even after years of this being true Obama, and his administration continue to this day to arm the radicals, and they have even tried to stop the Russians from bombing ISIS bases calling for a ceasefire, which was aimed at the Russians.

Hersh is known for publishing stories based on hearsay and not being able to substantiate claims made in his pieces.

This is garbage unless they can provide clear proof.

originally posted by: introvert
Hersh is known for publishing stories based on hearsay and not being able to substantiate claims made in his pieces.

This is garbage unless they can provide clear proof.

I provided direct evidence to the unclassified report from the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), in which it clearly states exactly what Hersh, and his informers have been saying all along.

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D. The deterioration of the situation has dire consequences on the Iraqi situation and are as follows:

--1. This creates the ideal atmosphere for AQI to return to its old pockets in Mosul and Ramadi, and will provide a renewed momentum under the presumption of unifying the jihad among Sunni Iraq and Syria, and the rest of the Sunnis in the Arab world against what it considers one enemy, the dissenters. ISI could also declare an Islamic state through it's union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria, which will create grave danger in regards to unifying Iraq and the protection of it's territory.

www.judicialwatch.org...

Also, if reading earlier in the DIA document we can read the following.

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The general situation.

A. internally events are taking a clear sectarian direction.

B. The Salafist, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Aqi are the major forces driving the insurgency.
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www.judicialwatch.org...


Not to mention that Hersch also quoted what former, and present U.S. officials told him. Nice try...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I understand that. But you also realize that this is an admitted "information report, not finally evaluated intelligence" and the quote you provided is an admitted "assumption", right?

Is there any direct evidence of the US supplying arms though?

a reply to: Forensick

The US said they drooped 40 tons of weapons to the moderates ..Problem is , is that there were never any moderates . Remember the so called moderate shooting the Russian rescue helicopter with the US TOW missile . Now it could have been supplied by Saudi's but it might have been from the drop as well . You can take your pic of YT clips showing the weapons and ISIS www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Forensick
Is there any direct evidence of the US supplying arms though?

The Chiefs of Staff and the DIA admitting the U.S. government has been giving weapons to the radical Islamic groups is not evidence?

National Security
CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels

By Ernesto Londoño and Greg Miller September 11, 2013 Follow @gregpmiller

The CIA has begun delivering weapons to rebels in Syria, ending months of delay in lethal aid that had been promised by the Obama administration, according to U.S. officials and Syrian figures. The shipments began streaming into the country over the past two weeks, along with separate deliveries by the State Department of vehicles and other gear — a flow of material that marks a major escalation of the U.S. role in Syria’s civil war.

The arms shipments, which are limited to light weapons and other munitions that can be tracked, began arriving in Syria at a moment of heightened tensions over threats by President Obama to order missile strikes to punish the regime of Bashar al-Assad for his alleged use of chemical weapons in a deadly attack near Damascus last month.

The arms are being delivered as the United States is also shipping new types of nonlethal gear to rebels. That aid includes vehicles, sophisticated communications equipment and advanced combat medical kits.

U.S. officials hope that, taken together, the weapons and gear will boost the profile and prowess of rebel fighters in a conflict that started about 21 / 2 years ago.
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www.washingtonpost.com... ory.html

That story claims that the U.S. was able to select "the moderates in the rebel army", but that isn't true according to the unclassified document from the DIA and other government officials. How do you tell who is a moderate and who isn't, and how you make sure only "moderates" get these weapons without U.S. ground groups?

And then we have this.

US-trained Division 30 rebels 'betray US and hand weapons over to al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria'

Pentagon-trained rebels are reported to have betrayed US and handed weapons over to Jabhat al-Nusra immediately after entering Syria



By Nabih Bulos, Amman

5:22PM BST 22 Sep 2015

Pentagon-trained rebels in Syria are reported to have betrayed their American backers and handed their weapons over to al-Qaeda in Syria immediately after re-entering the country.

Fighters with Division 30, the “]bmoderate” rebel division favoured by the United States, surrendered to the al-Qaeda-affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra, a raft of sources claimed on Monday night.

Division 30 was the first faction whose fighters graduated from a US-led training programme in Turkey which aims to forge a force on the ground in Syria to fight against Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isil).

A statement on Twitter by a man calling himself Abu Fahd al-Tunisi, a member of al-Qaeda’s local affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra, read: "A strong slap for America... the new group from Division 30 that entered yesterday hands over all of its weapons to Jabhat al-Nusra after being granted safe passage.

"They handed over a very large amount of ammunition and medium weaponry and a number of pick-ups."

Reports since yesterday claim US-backed leader Anas Obaid has betrayed US & handed weapons to Jabhat al-Nusra #Syria pic.twitter.com/yTZqVT3CI0
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www.telegraph.co.uk... iate-in-Syria.html