Erdogan cites Hitler's Germany as effective executive presidency

Sometimes politicians make the mistake of saying things out loud that they really believe. Here is a recent example:

Amid a push for increased executive powers, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan cited the political system under German dictator Adolf Hitler after being questioned whether a "unitary state" could exist with his ambitions of an executive-style presidential system.

"In a unitary system [such as Turkey's] a presidential system can work perfectly," Erdogan told reporters on Thursday after returning from a trip to Saudi Arabia, according to Turkish media.

"There are already examples in the world. You can see it when you look at Hitler's Germany," he added.

Erdogan has pushed for Turkey's 1980 Constitution - which was written after a military coup the same year - to be changed, in order to transform the president's office from a largely ceremonial role to that of a chief executive, similar to systems in the US, France and Russia.

The president's critics believe his ambitions could give far-reaching powers to a man who has displayed increasingly authoritarian attributes.

www.dw.com...

This slip is particularly ironic from a man who once compared Israel to Nazi Germany.

It's all an embarrassment what with Turkey being a NATO member.

NATO stands for democracy, yet this man appears to be hell bent on becoming a Despot.

Oh dear.

a reply to: DJW001

Hitler's dream.... Fascist Dictatorship combined with Islamic fanaticism. No really, he relished the idea

www.brusselsjournal.com...

“Had Charles Martel not been victorious,” Hitler told his inner crowd in August 1942, “then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone.

Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world.” Hitler told Albert Speer that Islam is “perfectly suited to the Germanic temperament.”

If the Muslims had won in Tours, the whole of Europe would have become Muslim in the 8th century and “the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate and conditions of [Europe].

They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire.”

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
It's all an embarrassment what with Turkey being a NATO member.

NATO stands for democracy, yet this man appears to be hell bent on becoming a Despot.

Oh dear.

Sadly, I agree with you. He has an Islamist background and Islamists are authoritarian. I am hoping that the urban voters will oust him before he can make any changes to the constitution.

a reply to: infolurker

It is well known that many Nazis fled Germany and Austria at the war's end, converted to Islam and fostered Pan-Arabism and Anti-Semitism in the Arab world. The PLO was purportedly funded with Black Eagle gold.

a reply to: DJW001

That's interesting.

Erdogan has claimed that he has been called Georgian, even Armenian in the past, although he claims to be Turkish.

Maybe he's actually German.

Oops!
THAT'S a dead giveaway that is...

Someone has to be the Devil's Advocate ; so what the hell !!!



Erdogan wants to unite all sunni muslims , it is true . However to attribute this desire to Erdogan's personality is a mistake .

This is a desire of almost all muslims , unite and be strong.

You see most non muslims are afraid of such a union ; 57 countries on 3 continent , rising up as a one entity in the World.

From Kazakhstan to Somalia , from Bosnia to Endonesia , such a united muslim World is not good for Vatican but above all not good at all for Israel .

This is not Erdogan's plan, it is the plan of Turkish Military Industrial Complex.

You see , it is also in the interest of Turks to revive the Caliphate . After all , legally speaking no one else can actually revive the Caliphate but Turks .

As far as Hitler quote is concerned , well Erdogan doesn't have the same quilt complex like western people do and Turks didn't kill the Jews either .
Hitler's Germany was an efficiency monster when it came to administrative tasks ; this is the bit Erdogan is referring to . Current Turkish Law is not authentic but cheap and incomplete copy of Roman Law .

Erdogan wants to revert to Ottoman Model of Government and I don't really blame him .

I also want to revert to Magna Carta , what being a lord and whatnot .

Frankly speaking I am sick of the current constitutions in ALL of the countries on earth .

Erdogan's dream is to eliminate Western model of government for Muslims and that is the right think to do imho .

a reply to: 23432

This is a desire of almost all muslims , unite and be strong.

That seems to be true of people who identify themselves primarily as Muslims, as opposed to Americans who practice Islam, or British of Pakistani ancestry, etc. Islam's biggest problem now is deciding which form of Islam should all the Ummah practice, and which country should should be the seat of the Caliphate. The Turks believe that because the last ruler to style himself Caliph was Ottoman, they have that right. Saudi Arabia possesses Mecca, so naturally they believe they have the right. Iran believes that the Sunnis betrayed the Prophet by murdering his true heir... etc. In the meantime, members of minority sects rule over patches of ground as "Secularists," meaning that others are permitted to worship in their own way, provided that their own minority sect is dominant.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: DJW001

That's interesting.

Erdogan has claimed that he has been called Georgian, even Armenian in the past, although he claims to be Turkish.

Maybe he's actually German.

Erdogan is Georgian and everyone in Turkey knows it . His wife is an Arab , everyone in Turkey also knows it.

There are currently 60 to 100 thousand Armenia Citizens illegaly working & living in Turkey .

Between Georgia and Turkey , there is total cooperation ; Georgians & Turks can travel to each other's countries without passports .

Erdogan's ethnicity is not a problem in anything he does within Turkey . It is his religous conviction that is the problem for many people .


Erdogan has been honoured by Israel with one of Israel's highest Medals due to the actions of Turkish Diplomats in WW2 .

Nazis wanted to kill the Jews and lots of them arrived in Turkey and had no problems , just like those other Jews who have sought refugee in the bosom of Turks at 15th century .

Out of Arab , Persian and Turk ; guess who is most friendly to Jews and more just to the Jews ?

Erdogan is one of those rare breeds in Turkish politics ; his closet only has a Quran in it .

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 23432

This is a desire of almost all muslims , unite and be strong.

That seems to be true of people who identify themselves primarily as Muslims, as opposed to Americans who practice Islam, or British of Pakistani ancestry, etc. Islam's biggest problem now is deciding which form of Islam should all the Ummah practice, and which country should should be the seat of the Caliphate. The Turks believe that because the last ruler to style himself Caliph was Ottoman, they have that right. Saudi Arabia possesses Mecca, so naturally they believe they have the right. Iran believes that the Sunnis betrayed the Prophet by murdering his true heir... etc. In the meantime, members of minority sects rule over patches of ground as "Secularists," meaning that others are permitted to worship in their own way, provided that their own minority sect is dominant.

When there is a Caliphate in existence as a Legal & Lawfull entity ; any muslim can and should claim their place in it and leave the Western Countries .

It really isn't Islam's problem to decide which form of Islam to follow ; it is more of a problem for Vatican dare I say then anyone else because they stand to lose most .

Caliphate is still with Turks , it hasn't gone anywhere but just put away till such a day when there is need for it's services for Ummah .

The Law that " Put Away " the Caliphate has been worded as such it is clear that Turks intended to revive it when the time was right .

Saudi's have the Mecca and this does give them a right to claim and Erdogan has worked out a comprimise ;

Caliphate will be made up of a Councill of Muslim countries ; every 2 years and election takes place to elect a Caliph from member country candidates .

Erdogan is out to show to World that islam doesn't need to practice democracy exclusively to co-exist with Christianity .

For all it's sins and deeds ; Ottoman Millet Model did work the longest in Human history .

Can't fault Erdogan for trying .

a reply to: 23432

Erdogan is out to show to World that islam doesn't need to practice democracy exclusively to co-exist with Christianity .

And that is my problem with Erdogan: the thought that 20% of the population of the entire world would forego their right to determine how they are governed and by whom, is disturbing.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 23432

Erdogan is out to show to World that islam doesn't need to practice democracy exclusively to co-exist with Christianity .

And that is my problem with Erdogan: the thought that 20% of the population of the entire world would forego their right to determine how they are governed and by whom, is disturbing.

Well I can see how that might present a false conundrum .

Most people don't want the burden of " thinking " for themselves which is the global reality exists as it is , unfortunately.

I tell you what bothers me more ; the thought of muslims following the rule of law not based on their own history and culture but that of Rome .

I don't know what valueable contribution if any the Rome governed muslim colonies would/could bring in to collective human culture on this planet .

Right of self determination is something that I would agree with obviously but if anyone wants to live in a servitute by their own volution , well , it is their freedom to choose after all .

Muslims believe in destiny and as such the symbolic power of Caliphate would only help re-enforce that belief .

What we ought to be questioning is how come recently we the human beings can only come up with an unjust system of government where the only thing never changes is that the rich gets richer while the poor gets poorer .

I live in Istanbul and not too long ago , just 500 years ago in this city ; the rich gave charity in the mosques , without being seen to do so . The poor also got needed charity and took care of their financial problems also without being seen to do so either .

"Charıty Stones in Ottoman Istanbul" One of the areas Ottoman culture excelled was security against poverty. What I am about to tell you may sound like a fairy tale today, yet it is the truth.

The Ottomans had stone pillars, approximately the size of a human, which can still be found in certain parts of Istanbul.
The purpose these stones served was not as mysterious as that of the monoliths at Stonehenge, but it may turn out to be more exciting by far in social terms.

They were called “Charity Stones” (sadaka taşı) .

A rich person who wanted to make a donation would reach up to a niche at the top of the stone, where he would deposit his gift.

Later on, a needy person would come along,reach up, take what was enough for his needs, and leave the rest of the money where it was so that another one in need may find solace.

The purpose of this device was to preserve the anonymity of the poor, thereby saving them from shame and loss of face. No one was reduced to begging.

A Better World - Ottoman Legacy.



You see Erdogan wants to bring back a world in which human beings treated each other with respect .

Most popular male baby name in Somalia is Erdogan . I know that MSM is painting a totally ghastly picture of the man Erdogan but reality is that this man has always obtained power by democracy and exercised it within Law.

a reply to: 23432

Most people don't want the burden of " thinking " for themselves which is the global reality exists as it is , unfortunately.

Unfortunately, you seem to be right about that.

I tell you what bothers me more ; the thought of muslims following the rule of law not based on their own history and culture but that of Rome .

But modern Western law owes less to Rome over time. We still have civil contracts based on Roman law, but we no longer treat human beings as property. Most laws come from the concepts of the Enlightenment, when reason trumped revelation. I for one prefer a reasoned body of laws developed over time through debate over a fossilized body of law supposedly handed down by a god.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 23432

Most people don't want the burden of " thinking " for themselves which is the global reality exists as it is , unfortunately.

Unfortunately, you seem to be right about that.

I tell you what bothers me more ; the thought of muslims following the rule of law not based on their own history and culture but that of Rome .

But modern Western law owes less to Rome over time. We still have civil contracts based on Roman law, but we no longer treat human beings as property. Most laws come from the concepts of the Enlightenment, when reason trumped revelation. I for one prefer a reasoned body of laws developed over time through debate over a fossilized body of law supposedly handed down by a god.

Under the Ottoman Millet System , you would be allowed to have the Law you want . I suppose that is the ultimate choice when it comes to freedom .

As for us not treating human being as property , I beg to differ and I would be willing to have a debate about that " Reasoned body of Laws " vs " Allah's Law ".

I suppose reason trumped revelation because what was being peddled as revelations were altered texts and not the original text .

I found it interesting that you regards Allah'a Law as " Fossilised " but Islamic Law is only the continuation of Talmudic & Biblical Laws as well as being the youngest out of 3 .

Ottoman System of Government doesn't equal to Sharia for non muslims , I think that is the main point worth making .

a reply to: 23432

Ottoman System of Government doesn't equal to Sharia for non muslims , I think that is the main point worth making .

True, but what if I don't want to pay the tax?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 23432

Ottoman System of Government doesn't equal to Sharia for non muslims , I think that is the main point worth making .

True, but what if I don't want to pay the tax?

I presume you mean the annual tax [ Cizye ] for every non muslim .

It's been abolished in 1855 ; nothing to pay since .

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

You mean Austrian? Common mistake I believe.

a reply to: 23432

I presume you mean the annual tax [ Cizye ] for every non muslim .

It's been abolished in 1855 ; nothing to pay since .

Cool.

a reply to: DJW001

I'm surprised your fascist detector didn't went off scale when reading something penned by Paul Beliën.



Otherwise S&F for thread and, as often, guess what was Erdogan statement after a while :

update : Turkey: Erdogan denies that he made references to Hitler

(link from member Ploutonas)